[sajunky]

Since Amazon was/is not an authorized dealer of Denafrips products, I never looked at them for purchase. I simply went to Vinshine Audio and got my items there... with the included 3-year warranty. Before I buy any electronics, I look to see if the vendor I'm looking at is an authorized dealer. If not, I move on. That's me.

Amazon except few key products branded by themselves is not a dealer, it is marketplace. It provides some method verification of a dealer, plus provides a warehouse and shipping facility for those dealers who sign for such option. It is very convenient for the casual user and trust is developed by numbers rather than personal experience. To the lesser degree Ali copies the same model.

Denafrips has three busines models. One you prefer is copied from a dealership model, other is dumping most of their product range through the direct marketing channel creating awareness of the brand, but in a long term hurting a brand. These two methods are mutually conflicting and affecting a value of goods on the second-hand market. Why we should debate it? It is their choice and gives users a choice. You made yours, but blaiming others is inappropriate.

From the user perspective I have only one objection. They have appointed only one dealer who gives manufacturers warranty but has no world-wide network in place. It is very inconvenient to bring stuff for repair. It is a reason why people tend to use direct market. A three tier model separating distribution from dealership providing aftermarket support is more appropriate. Blame Denafrips, not users.

The third model should be also considered. There are alternate brands who use Denafrips design and manufacturing facility, offering similar products. There are interesting, as improvements to the Denafrips product line seem to appear first in alternate brands products like Musician.

 

[sygnus21]

Argue that with Nikon and other manufacturers designating them as an authorized dealer. You can also argue with Denafrips as to why they don't designate Amazon as an authorized dealer.

 

[sajunky]

Argue that with Nikon and other manufacturers designating them as an authorized dealer. You can also argue with Denafrips as to why they don't designate Amazon as an authorized dealer.

Amazon do not provide end user support, not an option. They can appoint an authorised dealer, but they do prefer creating semi-grey market — bunch of sellers giving no support, they cannot be called dealers. This is Chineese advertising model, flooding search engine with Denafrips products.

 

[sygnus21]

From the user perspective I have only one objection. They have appointed only one dealer who gives manufacturers warranty but has no world-wide network in place. It is very inconvenient to bring stuff for repair. It is a reason why people tend to use direct market. A three tier model separating distribution from dealership providing aftermarket support is more appropriate. Blame Denafrips, not users.

You aren't saying anything I don't understand or get. With that, no matter how hard or long the argument, at the end of the day two things are still fact...

1) You get not warranty when buying from an unauthorized vendor.
2) No matter where you actually got the item from, it STILL has to go through Denafrips for service.

Point #2 meaning if I bought a Denafrips Iris from Amazon, and the item comes up needing repairs (past the 30-day return policy) .... Amazon isn't going to repair the item. They will simply inform you need to contact.... Denafrips.

As a consumer, if you fail to do your due diligence when spending large amounts of money on hi-end gear, you can't blame anyone but yourself. As I said before, I don't buy any hi-fi gear from unauthorized vendors because I as a "consumer" has learned buying from unauthorized means no warranty.

I'm also keenly aware many choose grey market (unauthorized vendor) because of cheaper prices. My point is you run the risk of an expensive repair bill, or no service at all by doing so as many manufactures (Denafrips) clearly state going grey market come with no warranty.

This is nothing new, and many manufacturers have been doing this for decades. The first I learned of it was Nikon and Canon in the mid 90's.

Movin on.

 

[sajunky]

This is nothing new, and many manufacturers have been doing this for decades. The first I learned of it was Nikon and Canon in the mid 90's.

I was buying Canon stuff in the mid 90s, mostly from B&H Camera (US), they offered goods with International Warranty Certificate. If I remember correctly it was an option at the extra fee. Much cheaper than a local dealers here in South Africa, and goods were serviced locally. Any problems, blame yourself if you were buying without international warranty.

Without international warranty, product had to be shipped to the country it was purchased from, but it had a valid warranty. With Denafrips is different; their sellers give no warranty, it is strange, very strange indeed.

 

[sygnus21]

Folks, it’s rather obvious sajunky is simply here to argue. It doesn’t matter the facts; it only matters he makes a contrary post.

The fact is if you buy Denafrips gear from AliExpress, e-Bay, or Amazon, it won't be warranted as stated by Vinshine Audio. You can either accept that or ignore it.

I have zero gain no matter where you buy your products. I was merely pointing out a fact. Good luck.

Await the return of the regularly threaded topic

 

[]eep]

And you're clearly missing the point! And obviously the point of your own post where Alvin is saying the same.... unauthorized sales have no warranty.

And I'm well aware of what e-bay is as I've only been buying through them for over 20 years. What I don't do is buy electronics from unauthorized vendors. Period!!!

I also shop Amazon all the time and have bought many electronics from them such as Nikon gear because they "Amazon" (shipped and sold) are an authorized dealer. What I don't do is buy from their third-party marketplace unless I know for sure that vendor is an authorized dealer.

Since Amazon was/is not an authorized dealer of Denafrips products, I never looked at them for purchase. I simply went to Vinshine Audio and got my items there... with the included 3-year warranty. Before I buy any electronics, I look to see if the vendor I'm looking at is an authorized dealer. If not, I move on. That's me.

But yes, I'm well aware people buy grey market goods all the time, even in knowing the risk, and they're quite happy.... until they see that high repair bill because no warranty. And that's if they're even lucky enough to have the manufacturer even consider repairing the item.

Anyway, this is a non-debatable issue for me. You spend your money as you see fit.

Good luck

Well, I'm not missing your point. But I disagree with it. I know what you are saying. But warranties are overrated.

Do not think you're not paying for that. Any company has to set aside resources for warranty cases (stock and finances). And many authorized sellers are not as trustworthy as that 'authorisation' implies.

I know, because I've learned the hard way. My tubeamp was totalled in transport and I was only offered a different one at a serious extra price because they valued my 3y old amp at 50%. Btw: I repaired that same amp myself before (replaced the potmeter). Had I known I'd not have brought it in and did I myself. But I wasn't as assertive and knowledgeable as I am now. The replacement amp (Audio Note no less) broke down after years (PS transformer) and I had to get it repaired for €400 and it took 6 months! In the meantime I bought my first Chinese for €300 total (amp+pp+customs) and after a small mod it totally surpassed the Audio Note Oto. That's how I found out the hard way that warranty is very limited and overrated.

I have bought so many Chinese products without any warranties. I've all modified and upgraded them myself (except for a tubeamp which is perfect as is). And I've saved soooo much money on it. I've only ever had one bad dac and an amp I mistakenly shorted (User error is never under warranty).

So, I have my view and I explained why. You have your view, and fortunately never experienced what I have. That's good. Let's hope it stays that way.

What I do not know... is the situation on the Chinese market that Alvin has to deal with. What I do know is that he's not very forthcoming about details of my dac's output stage. I'd like to modify that because I've done that so many times and there's something that irritates me (because my DACs perform better on that point). But he wouldn't tell me. And I'm not going to solder on an expensive DAC that is worth more in its original state.

Everyone has different motives.

 

[sygnus21]

OK

 

[]eep]

Folks, it’s rather obvious sajunky is simply here to argue. It doesn’t matter the facts; it only matters he makes a contrary post.

The fact is if you buy Denafrips gear from AliExpress, e-Bay, or Amazon, it won't be warranted as stated by Vinshine Audio. You can either accept that or ignore it.

I have zero gain no matter where you buy your products. I was merely pointing out a fact. Good luck.

Await the return of the regularly threaded topic

Nope. He simply has more experience than you and is less gullible (don't see that as an insult, it's just a fact Americans on average are a lot more naive than people who from around the world).

I also have no stake in the game. I'm not exactly rich and I learned how to fix things myself. I've also run a business and I understand how finances work. That's why I support Alvin.

Warranty only means that the thing you buy is without faults and works as expected for the first year (2 years in Europe, even longer for function). User error is always excluded as are user changes on the inside of the product. Warranty means the vendor will repair or replace free of charge. But that doesn't mean it can't be repaired for a fee. As I explained after the warranty expires you still have to pay and vendors hate that (I know because I've done that). And a repair by sending it back to a 'authorized retailer' is often way more pricy than having it repaired by a local repair man. I know, because my mom (yes my mother) used to repair the tv when I was young. As did my dad, change tubes in the middle of a football game. For expert things we called the expert.
Today big companies even put a limit on lifespan, make things slow down ("updates") or break down so consumers will buy the new model. Like the androids in Bladerunner or the people in Canada.

If you expect something to last 20 years (or 75 as does our old Telefunken 1948 jubilee model radio) what good is a 1 year warranty?

(Edit: bad grammar)

 

[sygnus21]

OK