[tawmizzzz]

There are many female artists whose voice usually has some sibilance in my system, for example PJ Harvey, Taylor Swift, Lorde and St. Vincent to name a few. Some male vocalists also have some sibilance, for example Nick Cave and Harry Wilkinson (from the band Maruja) come to mind.

A buddy of mine had me use PJ Harvey as a test track for upper-midrange sibilance back in the day for the Rhapsodio Infinity MkII---amazing vocals but her voice can definitely get intense.

I echo the sentiment with others that the Elites compared to other TOTLs are extremely smooth and while there is good sparkle in the treble region to keep it from being too dark, I have had no issues with the upper-midrange or treble (my sensitivity is usually in the 6k). I actually found the upper-mids on stock Caldera more sibilant/harsh than Elites, and ofc Susvara can be less forgiving than Elites as well due to its' extra resolution.

Chain can definitely help alleviate some of that final "dealbreaker" sibilance-a tube amp maybe or a slightly darker or R2R source. GL with the journey!

 

[AntonRisto]

That is very unfortunate. You probably have gone already through all thoughts mentioned below, if so please excuse me.
Could it be that something is wrong with your specific Elite set? Have you, next to the ZMF's, had the possibility to try other headphones in your set? Or have you been able to try the Elite's on another amp, just to be sure?
Maybe I am just lucky that with my Ferrum Erco there is no sibilance at all, not in any track I have tried so far. Not even with Harry Wilkinson, Lorde, or with the other artists you mentioned.
And what about the source itself or the digital connection from the source to the DAC?
Last thing I could think of trying is different 6922 tubes in the Trafomatic?
When I was still using tube amps I found that some input tubes could cause sibilance, but of course YMMV.

Do the Elite's sound much brighter than your ZMF's?

I used to own a Burson Soloist 3XP, and it definitely had a brighter and harsher sound overall.

After I switched to the Head 2, the problem with sibilance definitely diminished a little but has never gone away completely. I've tried Mullard and Philips NOS 6922 tubes with my Head 2 but didn't like the way bass sounded with those so I switched to Genalex Gold Lion 6922 tubes.

I'm using the LAN input of my R26 with the FMC mod, and there are AudioQuest Mackenzie XLR interconnects between my R26 and Head 2.

And no, I don't think the Elites sound much brighter than my ZMFs. They are a bit airier and a bit thinner sounding definitely but I wouldn't really call them bright like an Arya or a Susvara. Actually, I find their tonal balance to be very close to my preference but the sibilance prevents me from enjoying them fully.

 

[AntonRisto]

A buddy of mine had me use PJ Harvey as a test track for upper-midrange sibilance back in the day for the Rhapsodio Infinity MkII---amazing vocals but her voice can definitely get intense.

I echo the sentiment with others that the Elites compared to other TOTLs are extremely smooth and while there is good sparkle in the treble region to keep it from being too dark, I have had no issues with the upper-midrange or treble (my sensitivity is usually in the 6k). I actually found the upper-mids on stock Caldera more sibilant/harsh than Elites, and ofc Susvara can be less forgiving than Elites as well due to its' extra resolution.

Chain can definitely help alleviate some of that final "dealbreaker" sibilance-a tube amp maybe or a slightly darker or R2R source. GL with the journey!

Yeah, PJ Harvey is unfortunately one of those female artists, for me, that has made some amazing music but the intense vocals make it hard to enjoy sometimes.

I also agree that the upper-mids are more aggressive sounding on stock Caldera but with Thick Caldera pads the sound is a little less intense, and I also think that because there is more body to the sound with the Caldera the sibilant sounds are actually less bothersome than with the Elite.

 

[tawmizzzz]

Yeah, PJ Harvey is unfortunately one of those female artists, for me, that has made some amazing music but the intense vocals make it hard to enjoy sometimes.

I also agree that the upper-mids are more aggressive sounding on stock Caldera but with Thick Caldera pads the sound is a little less intense, and I also think that because there is more body to the sound with the Caldera the sibilant sounds are actually less bothersome than with the Elite.

Yeah I liked the thick pads for Calderas. It did make the sound a bit too warm for me afterwards because I find the Calderas are actually treble-shy, but it's those pushed-forward upper mids that add the energy (and ultimately fatigue from stock). However, it is nowhere as aggressive as the stock LCD5, which I did enjoy after using Mitch's filters.

Not sure if your set up allows it, but perhaps also consider EQ'ing a bit of the upper-midrange region out if you don't want to go with the far more expensive/time-consuming/risky gear rolling route. I also saw that you have played around with ICs which definitely can help finetune some of that stuff. Have you considered power as a variable? Outlet vs power conditioner vs power regenerator depending on your power situation etc. I did notice less digital glare and more of an organic, consistent sound using something like the Niagara1200 than from my wall outlet. But your experience may vary and I'd suggest a demo obviously.

Elites are the only headphone to survive with my Susvaras so far---not too much compromise on technicalities while having unparalleled euphonic and easy-listening sessions. Acoustic guitars and vocals are just

 

[up late]

i have read the zmf caldera thread and just finished this one (i really should think about getting a life). i am interested in adding a planar magnetic headphone to my collection and am leaning towards the caldera and elite as the two most likely candidates. i have auditioned the elite a couple of times and enjoyed it. i am also drawn to the caldera but it is not available for audition around these parts.

i have only heard the elite with its hybrid ear pads and according to the impressions that i've read here, it seems that the angled alcantara pads have removed a veil or haze that was never there to begin with. so for those of you who have heard or own both headphones, i am interested in your impressions comparing the clarity, resolution and sound stage with the stock pads fitted (elite hybrid and caldera lambskin).

thanks.

 

[AntonRisto]

i have read the zmf caldera thread and just finished this one (i really should think about getting a life). i am interested in adding a planar magnetic headphone to my collection and am leaning towards the caldera and elite as the two most likely candidates. i have auditioned the elite a couple of times and enjoyed it. i am also drawn to the caldera but it is not available for audition around these parts.

i have only heard the elite with its hybrid ear pads and according to the impressions that i've read here, it seems that the angled alcantara pads have removed a veil or haze that was never there to begin with. so for those of you who have heard or own both headphones, i am interested in your impressions comparing the clarity, resolution and sound stage with the stock pads fitted (elite hybrid and caldera lambskin).

thanks.

I owned both but recently sold the Elite because I like the Caldera more. I mainly used the Elite with the Hybrid pads but I also used the Angled Alcantara pads for a while. I used to use the Caldera mainly with the stock Caldera Leather pads but I recently switched to the Thick Caldera Leather pads.

Clarity: To my ear, the Caldera with the stock Leather pads separates the sounds a bit better which leads to better clarity across the board.

Resolution: I’d say that the Caldera with the stock Leather pads definitely wins on bass and on treble compared to the Elite with the stock Hybrid pads. I find the mids to be about on par between them although the Caldera has more forward mids compared to the more laidback mids of the Elite.

Soundstage: The Elite with the stock Hybrid pads wins on soundstage width but I think the Caldera has a bit more depth in its soundstage and the sound feels a bit taller as well with the Caldera.

The biggest difference between the two headphones, for me, is that the Caldera’s sound has much more bite and attack and weight and punch compared to the airier and softer sound of the Elite. This is why I think the Elite might be superior to those who seek a more relaxing listening experience. But for people like me, who usually listen to music for 1–2 hours at a time, I think the Caldera is the superior headphone. This is also why I decided to sell my Elite.

 

[tawmizzzz]

i have read the zmf caldera thread and just finished this one (i really should think about getting a life). i am interested in adding a planar magnetic headphone to my collection and am leaning towards the caldera and elite as the two most likely candidates. i have auditioned the elite a couple of times and enjoyed it. i am also drawn to the caldera but it is not available for audition around these parts.

i have only heard the elite with its hybrid ear pads and according to the impressions that i've read here, it seems that the angled alcantara pads have removed a veil or haze that was never there to begin with. so for those of you who have heard or own both headphones, i am interested in your impressions comparing the clarity, resolution and sound stage with the stock pads fitted (elite hybrid and caldera lambskin).

thanks.

I owned both and they're quite complementary---Elites are faster sounding, have a larger soundstage width which adds to feeling of "air", a bit more of a smoother, linear and slightly romantic sound signature. Due to tuning, Calderas might come across as more clarity-based, but I found Elites more technically-proficient with more room to scale depending on chain.

Calderas are punchier with a slightly slower decay which helps defy some of the planar timbre. Bass decay and extension feels more organic than the Elites, mainly because they feel overall meatier in sound. I didn't find Calderas to layer as well. Although the soundstage is more intimate than the Elite, it was still very cohesive and pleasant, almost spherical or club-like. There is a bit more impact, particularly with macrodynamics. Caldera's stock tuning is less linear with a more boosted-upper midrange that adds to a more aggressive and energetic sound signature versus the more laid-back and smooth Elites. (I did enjoy thick pads most on the Calderas to even out the shouty-mids, but it come at a cost to the treble extension).

In short, I liked the Calderas most for rock, pop, and grunge genres, and the Elites more for acoustic, airy and midrange/vocal sensual presentation.

 

[up late]

I owned both but recently sold the Elite because I like the Caldera more. I mainly used the Elite with the Hybrid pads but I also used the Angled Alcantara pads for a while. I used to use the Caldera mainly with the stock Caldera Leather pads but I recently switched to the Thick Caldera Leather pads.

Clarity: To my ear, the Caldera with the stock Leather pads separates the sounds a bit better which leads to better clarity across the board.

Resolution: I’d say that the Caldera with the stock Leather pads definitely wins on bass and on treble compared to the Elite with the stock Hybrid pads. I find the mids to be about on par between them although the Caldera has more forward mids compared to the more laidback mids of the Elite.

Soundstage: The Elite with the stock Hybrid pads wins on soundstage width but I think the Caldera has a bit more depth in its soundstage and the sound feels a bit taller as well with the Caldera.

The biggest difference between the two headphones, for me, is that the Caldera’s sound has much more bite and attack and weight and punch compared to the airier and softer sound of the Elite. This is why I think the Elite might be superior to those who seek a more relaxing listening experience. But for people like me, who usually listen to music for 1–2 hours at a time, I think the Caldera is the superior headphone. This is also why I decided to sell my Elite.

I owned both and they're quite complementary---Elites are faster sounding, have a larger soundstage width which adds to feeling of "air", a bit more of a smoother, linear and slightly romantic sound signature. Due to tuning, Calderas might come across as more clarity-based, but I found Elites more technically-proficient with more room to scale depending on chain.

Calderas are punchier with a slightly slower decay which helps defy some of the planar timbre. Bass decay and extension feels more organic than the Elites, mainly because they feel overall meatier in sound. I didn't find Calderas to layer as well. Although the soundstage is more intimate than the Elite, it was still very cohesive and pleasant, almost spherical or club-like. There is a bit more impact, particularly with macrodynamics. Caldera's stock tuning is less linear with a more boosted-upper midrange that adds to a more aggressive and energetic sound signature versus the more laid-back and smooth Elites. (I did enjoy thick pads most on the Calderas to even out the shouty-mids, but it come at a cost to the treble extension).

In short, I liked the Calderas most for rock, pop, and grunge genres, and the Elites more for acoustic, airy and midrange/vocal sensual presentation.

very helpful impressions. thank you both.

 

[bunnygal23]

I demoed the Caldera as well but I ultimately went with the Elites beacuse it works a lot better with my library, had a larger soundstage and was a lot more comfortable on my head. The stage and tonal balance especially is just magical, the slighty romantic yet detailed sound is very enjoyable and I've not been able to find a similar experience in other HP's I've tried.

I definitely agree with above impressions about the Elites more relaxed nature compared to the Caldera but as someone who listens to music for at least 3 hours at a time, I appreciate not getting fatigued. The Calderas sound really great but I found I was getting fatigued a lot quicker with especially upper mids and lower treble on some recordings than I was with the Elites. I'd like to note that I did not do any pad rolling, I just listened to the stock caldera pads and I am also very sensitive to those areas in the FR though so YMMV.

I recently switched back to the hybrid pads on the Elites and I absolutely love them. I know I just said the Elites can be relaxed but they can also slam, esp with the hybrid pads, at least they do on my source chain. I use them for EDM and rock and it works really well for me.There's a great case for either but the Elites are always what I reach for when I get home, even over the sus. It's a shame you can't audition both side by side but I'm confident you'll like whatever you choose, they are both great.


Edit: Oops, for got to hit reply, this is in response to @up late question.

 

[up late]

I demoed the Caldera as well but I ultimately went with the Elites beacuse it works a lot better with my library, had a larger soundstage and was a lot more comfortable on my head. The stage and tonal balance especially is just magical, the slighty romantic yet detailed sound is very enjoyable and I've not been able to find a similar experience in other HP's I've tried.

I definitely agree with above impressions about the Elites more relaxed nature compared to the Caldera but as someone who listens to music for at least 3 hours at a time, I appreciate not getting fatigued. The Calderas sound really great but I found I was getting fatigued a lot quicker with especially upper mids and lower treble on some recordings than I was with the Elites. I'd like to note that I did not do any pad rolling, I just listened to the stock caldera pads and I am also very sensitive to those areas in the FR though so YMMV.

I recently switched back to the hybrid pads on the Elites and I absolutely love them. I know I just said the Elites can be relaxed but they can also slam, esp with the hybrid pads, at least they do on my source chain. I use them for EDM and rock and it works really well for me.There's a great case for either but the Elites are always what I reach for when I get home, even over the sus. It's a shame you can't audition both side by side but I'm confident you'll like whatever you choose, they are both great.


Edit: Oops, for got to hit reply, this is in response to @up late question.

much appreciated @bunnygal23