[betula]

Hello everyone in this thread,

I've been using this amp since July of last year and absolutely LOVE it. The Schiit Lyr 2 I was coming from is certainly no slouch, but the Cayin is better in every way, with all of the headphones I have as well.

I wanted to make a post on here because I see the thread focuses a lot on tube rolling. I tried this out, and had terrible luck!

The tubes I got were as follows:
TAD 6V6GT STR REDBASE - MATCHED PAIR
Sylvania 5814A Double Mica

They were awful! These tubes severely compressed the soundstage and limited frequency extension in bass AND treble. The amp was worse than the Lyr. I tried mixing the new tubes with the stock tubes, and there was slight improvement, but it still wasn't good.

I went back to the stock tubes, and the sound was just heavenly by comparison. The 4 tubes cost $175 which is a bit much for something that just flat out didn't work well.

The point is for anyone who has this amp or is interested in getting it, it is GREAT with the stock tubes! Rolling is by no means a requirement to make this amp great, it can still EASILY be the best amp you've ever heard straight out of the box. It is for me, and I will not be investing money in tube rolling for something like this. The risk doesn't seem worth the cost (from my experience only, of course), especially since I love the sound as is.

Good point and I think it is great that you mention this in the flow of tube rolling posts. The 3A is indeed a very good amp with stock tubes already, beating most options out there up to and around it is retail price. The natural 'tube fluidity' that SS amps simply can't match is already there in the sound while at this level of TC tube amps you start to get good technicalities too.
It is also true, that unfortunately tube rolling is an expensive passion with potential traps and failures. One has to be prepared to take some loss every now on then or just get disappointed in certain tubes.
That said, the reward a good and well chosen NOS tube set can give is undeniable and can be very enjoyable. A good set of tubes can elevate the already great stock 3A to 'fantastic' levels.
While I already loved my 3A enough with stock tubes to quickly sell my GSX-Mini, I don't think I would have kept the Cayin this long with stock tubes only. Bass with stock tubes for me is a little lean and lacks those last bits of extension. For acoustic music genres it is not an issue at all, but with EDM tracks it is apparent and bothering.
Thankfully with NOS tubes this can also be fully adjusted/remedied and since I rolled these tubes in, my 3A is lacking nothing in the bass department making me a very happy owner the last 17 months.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

Certainly nothing wrong with sticking to stock tubes because they do sound great - but I wouldn't let one bad experience with other tubes deter you completely. Just take your time and try to pull some suggestions from this thread that won't break the bank. You may find you end up loving the amp even more

Yep, tube rolling will always take you a few attempts to get right and its very uncommon to find the perfect tubes on your first go.

Luckily for me, I found the Reflektors on my first go and I was on the Sylvanias for a while before switching to the Telefunkens

 

[LXMc]

Luckily for me, I found the Reflektors on my first go and I was on the Sylvanias for a while before switching to the Telefunkens

Reflektors were the first 6v6's I got and I quite like them, but unfortunately one of them is quite microphonic which can get annoying so I typically use my Brimars or Bendix power tubes.

 

[Hickory Deadglove]

Hello everyone in this thread,

I've been using this amp since July of last year and absolutely LOVE it. The Schiit Lyr 2 I was coming from is certainly no slouch, but the Cayin is better in every way, with all of the headphones I have as well.

I wanted to make a post on here because I see the thread focuses a lot on tube rolling. I tried this out, and had terrible luck!

The tubes I got were as follows:
TAD 6V6GT STR REDBASE - MATCHED PAIR
Sylvania 5814A Double Mica

They were awful! These tubes severely compressed the soundstage and limited frequency extension in bass AND treble. The amp was worse than the Lyr. I tried mixing the new tubes with the stock tubes, and there was slight improvement, but it still wasn't good.

I went back to the stock tubes, and the sound was just heavenly by comparison. The 4 tubes cost $175 which is a bit much for something that just flat out didn't work well.

The point is for anyone who has this amp or is interested in getting it, it is GREAT with the stock tubes! Rolling is by no means a requirement to make this amp great, it can still EASILY be the best amp you've ever heard straight out of the box. It is for me, and I will not be investing money in tube rolling for something like this. The risk doesn't seem worth the cost (from my experience only, of course), especially since I love the sound as is.

Have you try to switch one pair at a time? (The Sylvania with the stock 6v6 or the TAD with the stock 12au7) I have a pair of Sylvania 5814a that sound excellent with my pair of reflektor.

 

[mudguardiain]

I only have limited experience with tube rolling so far due to problems with my first amp. The replacement is much better and I currently run the Gold Lion’s & find the extremely good with my HE1000. I have some Reflektor 6V6 which are very good but personally prefer the Gold Lion’s which are more detailed with better instrument separation. Bass quantity is a bit less but quality is great, good texture & very clear. The Gold Lion’s maybe a tad smooth overall but are a safe bet for an upgrade over stock. Looking forward to trying some more options moving forward when funds permit

 

[npatrix]

Hello everyone in this thread,

I've been using this amp since July of last year and absolutely LOVE it. The Schiit Lyr 2 I was coming from is certainly no slouch, but the Cayin is better in every way, with all of the headphones I have as well.

I wanted to make a post on here because I see the thread focuses a lot on tube rolling. I tried this out, and had terrible luck!

The tubes I got were as follows:
TAD 6V6GT STR REDBASE - MATCHED PAIR
Sylvania 5814A Double Mica

They were awful! These tubes severely compressed the soundstage and limited frequency extension in bass AND treble. The amp was worse than the Lyr. I tried mixing the new tubes with the stock tubes, and there was slight improvement, but it still wasn't good.

I went back to the stock tubes, and the sound was just heavenly by comparison. The 4 tubes cost $175 which is a bit much for something that just flat out didn't work well.

The point is for anyone who has this amp or is interested in getting it, it is GREAT with the stock tubes! Rolling is by no means a requirement to make this amp great, it can still EASILY be the best amp you've ever heard straight out of the box. It is for me, and I will not be investing money in tube rolling for something like this. The risk doesn't seem worth the cost (from my experience only, of course), especially since I love the sound as is.

This is a very interesting point, I’m also relative new to tubes and tube rolling, actually I was about to sell my HA-3A when an head-fier reached out and gave me very good advice in tube rolling and what tube combination should I buy for the sound profile that I was looking for vs stock, this was a game changer for me!
Now I only listen to the HA-3A and start rolling tunes and enjoying the nuances of each combination, I’m even selling my Aune S17 as I don’t use it anymore…

My point is that rolling tubes without proper advice on: tube combination, where to buy, trusted sellers, learning the basics is probably a huge risk of be throwing money away, but the good news is that are plenty of people with knowledge and will to help, around here and with their support this can be a very rewarding experience!!!

My 5c, go through the thread, there is a lot of good information and reach out to the more experienced guys if you have any doubts, because tube rolling can be one of the cheapest way to find your favourite sound profile.

 

[RollinHard843]

I had the Lyr 3 and the HA-3A was a big improvement for me.

I still think the Sylvania 5814A Double Mica is a great tube and it all depends on the 6V6 tubes you pair with it as some can just kill the soundstage like the 6V6 Brimar Black Beauty. The Reflektor 6V6GT provide you with a big airy soundstage with great bass and treble extension whilst having a slightly warm sound. If you want a linear ECC82 tube you need to look at the Telefunken ECC82 as they provide me with the most detail, uncoloured neutral sound that pair nicely with the Reflektor 6V6 tubes and a great soundstage with very good 3 dimensional depth. This combo really opened the soundstage on the LCD 4 which is a headphone that is notoriously narrow in terms of the soundstage width.

You can get the Reflektor 6V6GT tubes for pretty cheap but the Telefunken ECC82 are a bit pricey as they are newly manufactured but after testing an extensive amount of ECC82/12AU7 tubes, the Telefunkens are the best when paired with the Reflektors.

That's worth keeping in mind if I ever want to try tube rolling again. I'm likely not going to worry about it though. I have an LCD2 and tried it out switching between the Lyr2 and the stock HA-3A and the Cayin was definitely better all around. It's my only planar I was thinking "maybe this is the headphone where the Lyr's power is a greater factor" but nope!

Good point and I think it is great that you mention this in the flow of tube rolling posts. The 3A is indeed a very good amp with stock tubes already, beating most options out there up to and around it is retail price. The natural 'tube fluidity' that SS amps simply can't match is already there in the sound while at this level of TC tube amps you start to get good technicalities too.
It is also true, that unfortunately tube rolling is an expensive passion with potential traps and failures. One has to be prepared to take some loss every now on then or just get disappointed in certain tubes.
That said, the reward a good and well chosen NOS tube set can give is undeniable and can be very enjoyable. A good set of tubes can elevate the already great stock 3A to 'fantastic' levels.
While I already loved my 3A enough with stock tubes to quickly sell my GSX-Mini, I don't think I would have kept the Cayin this long with stock tubes only. Bass with stock tubes for me is a little lean and lacks those last bits of extension. For acoustic music genres it is not an issue at all, but with EDM tracks it is apparent and bothering.
Thankfully with NOS tubes this can also be fully adjusted/remedied and since I rolled these tubes in, my 3A is lacking nothing in the bass department making me a very happy owner the last 17 months.

It's funny, because I've had great success with my Schiit amps over the years. Vali 2, Lyr, Lyr 2 (in a different room from the Lyr1, with different tubes) all benefited from tube rolling on first try. The Cayin HA-3A was my first tube rolling fail. I might get curious again in years to come, but I hope nobody feels like they HAVE to get into tube rolling to enjoy the amp!

Have you try to switch one pair at a time? (The Sylvania with the stock 6v6 or the TAD with the stock 12au7) I have a pair of Sylvania 5814a that sound excellent with my pair of reflektor.

I did this during the summer, and still didn't enjoy the results. Go figure

 

[Honeypot]

Try Mullard 12au7 10m with mullard 6v6g kt61 st shape or Mazda 6v6gt. Another amazing combo.
If you want a cheaper option go for Mullard 6v6gt t shape with tungsram 12au7.

The latest shouldn't be much more than 200$.
The first option is my golden and I have spare for my entire life.
Since I got into tube rolling I went totally bankrupt, but hey. Yolo...

Btw, if your house was burning, what would be the first thing to pick up before running? I've been thinking about this for some time now..
Can I carry all my tubes, headphones and maybe an amp?

 

[NJoyzAudio]

Hello everyone in this thread,

I've been using this amp since July of last year and absolutely LOVE it. The Schiit Lyr 2 I was coming from is certainly no slouch, but the Cayin is better in every way, with all of the headphones I have as well.

I wanted to make a post on here because I see the thread focuses a lot on tube rolling. I tried this out, and had terrible luck!

The tubes I got were as follows:
TAD 6V6GT STR REDBASE - MATCHED PAIR
Sylvania 5814A Double Mica

They were awful! These tubes severely compressed the soundstage and limited frequency extension in bass AND treble. The amp was worse than the Lyr. I tried mixing the new tubes with the stock tubes, and there was slight improvement, but it still wasn't good.

I went back to the stock tubes, and the sound was just heavenly by comparison. The 4 tubes cost $175 which is a bit much for something that just flat out didn't work well.

The point is for anyone who has this amp or is interested in getting it, it is GREAT with the stock tubes! Rolling is by no means a requirement to make this amp great, it can still EASILY be the best amp you've ever heard straight out of the box. It is for me, and I will not be investing money in tube rolling for something like this. The risk doesn't seem worth the cost (from my experience only, of course), especially since I love the sound as is.

RollinHard843

This is the beauty of this hobby and particularly the HA-3A
It is different for everybody, and change only when it makes sense to you.

I avoided a desktop tube amp for years, knowing I would go down the rabbit hole of tube rolling.
But it was using my Portable DAP's with tube modes on them that had me missing the sound from desktop HW, combined with getting some new over the ear headphones which really needed more than the portable players could provide, and now here I am with lots of tubes and plenty of way to change the sound, when I want.

I often advise people demo until you can't hear a difference, then go one level back, and if the sound change is too great, then you need to ask if you can afford the level above you stopped at, or if the price change is enough vs the sound change, to allow you to accept the model/item lower.

Tube rolling can be that way also
There are some uber expensive tubes I've been able to borrow I did not like
I have tried tubes considered bargin basement and they are quite enjoyable
I've been buying based on info from people who I've come to find have similar sound wants, and then where I can borrow to confirm the change is what I want. This forum has been great to get advice, has some of the NICEST people contributing freely (I'm on some forums where people are downright rude) and have helped me through to get where I am with the HA-3A. As someone noted above there are some great combos, charts and guides posted in the beginning of this forum I've booked marked as I go often to gauge a change I'm considering
Again thank you all for your contributions, but as I've called out in the past, Renexx, Betula, Louisana and Robert have had some great comments and info - Thank you all.

But as written above by many, its the synergy of the entire chain that will give you the best change/sound. Chasing that can be endless
This is why I've found some combinations I like, stick with them and rotate between them from time to time until I change a major item in my chain, and then go back through as that one change might make a previous combo that I did not like stand out and one I now like (this has happened).

But again this is the beauty of this hobby, you can tailor it to your needs, your tastes and do NOT have go out and buy TOTL to get the sound you want.

Nothing wrong for stating your position and that you like the stock tubes and do not see any advantage of changing. This is GREAT because you can spare your wallet some agony!.
Others have also noted, they might have abandoned the HA-3A had they NOT changed tubes, and I count myself in that group, and forever find small changes make great improvements, so not looking to go into a 300B amp (with the price of those tubes! Whew) and probably will stick for now with what I've got in the HA-3A and now sizeable cache of NOS tubes.
But the other part of this hobby is we ALL get Upgradeitis, so my suggestion is never say never as something may come along tomorrow that will change your mind and get you to start tube rolling again.
But for now GOOD FOR YOU!, enjoy the amp "as-is" as it meets all of your needs, and be happy in the fact unlike some of us here we are still chasing a sound signature and still justifying the spend....for now.

Wishing you the best,
And as I always like to end all the above is IMO and YMMV!

 

[betula]

RollinHard843

This is the beauty of this hobby and particularly the HA-3A
It is different for everybody, and change only when it makes sense to you.

I avoided a desktop tube amp for years, knowing I would go down the rabbit hole of tube rolling.
But it was using my Portable DAP's with tube modes on them that had me missing the sound from desktop HW, combined with getting some new over the ear headphones which really needed more than the portable players could provide, and now here I am with lots of tubes and plenty of way to change the sound, when I want.

I often advise people demo until you can't hear a difference, then go one level back, and if the sound change is too great, then you need to ask if you can afford the level above you stopped at, or if the price change is enough vs the sound change, to allow you to accept the model/item lower.

Tube rolling can be that way also
There are some uber expensive tubes I've been able to borrow I did not like
I have tried tubes considered bargin basement and they are quite enjoyable
I've been buying based on info from people who I've come to find have similar sound wants, and then where I can borrow to confirm the change is what I want. This forum has been great to get advice, has some of the NICEST people contributing freely (I'm on some forums where people are downright rude) and have helped me through to get where I am with the HA-3A. As someone noted above there are some great combos, charts and guides posted in the beginning of this forum I've booked marked as I go often to gauge a change I'm considering
Again thank you all for your contributions, but as I've called out in the past, Renexx, Betula, Louisana and Robert have had some great comments and info - Thank you all.

But as written above by many, its the synergy of the entire chain that will give you the best change/sound. Chasing that can be endless
This is why I've found some combinations I like, stick with them and rotate between them from time to time until I change a major item in my chain, and then go back through as that one change might make a previous combo that I did not like stand out and one I now like (this has happened).

But again this is the beauty of this hobby, you can tailor it to your needs, your tastes and do NOT have go out and buy TOTL to get the sound you want.

Nothing wrong for stating your position and that you like the stock tubes and do not see any advantage of changing. This is GREAT because you can spare your wallet some agony!.
Others have also noted, they might have abandoned the HA-3A had they NOT changed tubes, and I count myself in that group, and forever find small changes make great improvements, so not looking to go into a 300B amp (with the price of those tubes! Whew) and probably will stick for now with what I've got in the HA-3A and now sizeable cache of NOS tubes.
But the other part of this hobby is we ALL get Upgradeitis, so my suggestion is never say never as something may come along tomorrow that will change your mind and get you to start tube rolling again.
But for now GOOD FOR YOU!, enjoy the amp "as-is" as it meets all of your needs, and be happy in the fact unlike some of us here we are still chasing a sound signature and still justifying the spend....for now.

Wishing you the best,
And as I always like to end all the above is IMO and YMMV!

I have to say, I am also grateful to a couple of members here for tube suggestions. The best tubes I tried came from these suggestions probably saving me quite a few circles and cash (which you literally burn with tubes).
At the same time, I did and do a lot of online research as there are pages with a lot of information about different tubes. (Most of these pages look like a teenager put them together 20+ years ago on Windows 98.) And then the hunt begins. Availability of the best tubes is scarce, so often some luck is needed as well to find what you are looking for.
For the same reasons as you, I had been avoiding tube amps for a long time as I knew the hassle and money side of this rabbit hole. Eventually I gave the HA-3A a chance as my first tube amp and indeed I got hooked. No matter what great SS amps I try, it seems I can't really live without tube magic anymore. The liquidity, naturalness, smoothness, euphonic and engaging sound is just too good. It is worth all the hassle as when all stars align and you got it right, the reward is sweet.

 

[RollinHard843]

RollinHard843

This is the beauty of this hobby and particularly the HA-3A
It is different for everybody, and change only when it makes sense to you.

I avoided a desktop tube amp for years, knowing I would go down the rabbit hole of tube rolling.
But it was using my Portable DAP's with tube modes on them that had me missing the sound from desktop HW, combined with getting some new over the ear headphones which really needed more than the portable players could provide, and now here I am with lots of tubes and plenty of way to change the sound, when I want.

I often advise people demo until you can't hear a difference, then go one level back, and if the sound change is too great, then you need to ask if you can afford the level above you stopped at, or if the price change is enough vs the sound change, to allow you to accept the model/item lower.

Tube rolling can be that way also
There are some uber expensive tubes I've been able to borrow I did not like
I have tried tubes considered bargin basement and they are quite enjoyable
I've been buying based on info from people who I've come to find have similar sound wants, and then where I can borrow to confirm the change is what I want. This forum has been great to get advice, has some of the NICEST people contributing freely (I'm on some forums where people are downright rude) and have helped me through to get where I am with the HA-3A. As someone noted above there are some great combos, charts and guides posted in the beginning of this forum I've booked marked as I go often to gauge a change I'm considering
Again thank you all for your contributions, but as I've called out in the past, Renexx, Betula, Louisana and Robert have had some great comments and info - Thank you all.

But as written above by many, its the synergy of the entire chain that will give you the best change/sound. Chasing that can be endless
This is why I've found some combinations I like, stick with them and rotate between them from time to time until I change a major item in my chain, and then go back through as that one change might make a previous combo that I did not like stand out and one I now like (this has happened).

But again this is the beauty of this hobby, you can tailor it to your needs, your tastes and do NOT have go out and buy TOTL to get the sound you want.

Nothing wrong for stating your position and that you like the stock tubes and do not see any advantage of changing. This is GREAT because you can spare your wallet some agony!.
Others have also noted, they might have abandoned the HA-3A had they NOT changed tubes, and I count myself in that group, and forever find small changes make great improvements, so not looking to go into a 300B amp (with the price of those tubes! Whew) and probably will stick for now with what I've got in the HA-3A and now sizeable cache of NOS tubes.
But the other part of this hobby is we ALL get Upgradeitis, so my suggestion is never say never as something may come along tomorrow that will change your mind and get you to start tube rolling again.
But for now GOOD FOR YOU!, enjoy the amp "as-is" as it meets all of your needs, and be happy in the fact unlike some of us here we are still chasing a sound signature and still justifying the spend....for now.

Wishing you the best,
And as I always like to end all the above is IMO and YMMV!

Thanks for the reply, always good to hear different perspectives. I come and go from Head-Fi, so I'm not here a lot to know what content people post. Ive upgraded some components over the last year, and this amp is a GREAT upgrade. If I ever want to try upgrading tubes, I can come here and see some old replies

 

[Honeypot]

RollinHard843

This is the beauty of this hobby and particularly the HA-3A
It is different for everybody, and change only when it makes sense to you.

I avoided a desktop tube amp for years, knowing I would go down the rabbit hole of tube rolling.
But it was using my Portable DAP's with tube modes on them that had me missing the sound from desktop HW, combined with getting some new over the ear headphones which really needed more than the portable players could provide, and now here I am with lots of tubes and plenty of way to change the sound, when I want.

I often advise people demo until you can't hear a difference, then go one level back, and if the sound change is too great, then you need to ask if you can afford the level above you stopped at, or if the price change is enough vs the sound change, to allow you to accept the model/item lower.

Tube rolling can be that way also
There are some uber expensive tubes I've been able to borrow I did not like
I have tried tubes considered bargin basement and they are quite enjoyable
I've been buying based on info from people who I've come to find have similar sound wants, and then where I can borrow to confirm the change is what I want. This forum has been great to get advice, has some of the NICEST people contributing freely (I'm on some forums where people are downright rude) and have helped me through to get where I am with the HA-3A. As someone noted above there are some great combos, charts and guides posted in the beginning of this forum I've booked marked as I go often to gauge a change I'm considering
Again thank you all for your contributions, but as I've called out in the past, Renexx, Betula, Louisana and Robert have had some great comments and info - Thank you all.

But as written above by many, its the synergy of the entire chain that will give you the best change/sound. Chasing that can be endless
This is why I've found some combinations I like, stick with them and rotate between them from time to time until I change a major item in my chain, and then go back through as that one change might make a previous combo that I did not like stand out and one I now like (this has happened).

But again this is the beauty of this hobby, you can tailor it to your needs, your tastes and do NOT have go out and buy TOTL to get the sound you want.

Nothing wrong for stating your position and that you like the stock tubes and do not see any advantage of changing. This is GREAT because you can spare your wallet some agony!.
Others have also noted, they might have abandoned the HA-3A had they NOT changed tubes, and I count myself in that group, and forever find small changes make great improvements, so not looking to go into a 300B amp (with the price of those tubes! Whew) and probably will stick for now with what I've got in the HA-3A and now sizeable cache of NOS tubes.
But the other part of this hobby is we ALL get Upgradeitis, so my suggestion is never say never as something may come along tomorrow that will change your mind and get you to start tube rolling again.
But for now GOOD FOR YOU!, enjoy the amp "as-is" as it meets all of your needs, and be happy in the fact unlike some of us here we are still chasing a sound signature and still justifying the spend....for now.

Wishing you the best,
And as I always like to end all the above is IMO and YMMV!

I have to say, I am also grateful to a couple of members here for tube suggestions. The best tubes I tried came from these suggestions probably saving me quite a few circles and cash (which you literally burn with tubes).
At the same time, I did and do a lot of online research as there are pages with a lot of information about different tubes. (Most of these pages look like a teenager put them together 20+ years ago on Windows 98.) And then the hunt begins. Availability of the best tubes is scarce, so often some luck is needed as well to find what you are looking for.
For the same reasons as you, I had been avoiding tube amps for a long time as I knew the hassle and money side of this rabbit hole. Eventually I gave the HA-3A a chance as my first tube amp and indeed I got hooked. No matter what great SS amps I try, it seems I can't really live without tube magic anymore. The liquidity, naturalness, smoothness, euphonic and engaging sound is just too good. It is worth all the hassle as when all stars align and you got it right, the reward is sweet.

I am with you both, I found in this forum a few people who helped me a lot in my starting journey of tubes.
And as you mentioned, I was also a SS amp guy, just for the feeling I didn't want to "lose" a sound I was loving from a set of tubes.
This all started with the Feliks echo, where I was using it with stock tubes for 2 years before I rolled my first tubes.
Started with some cheap ones to test if there was a difference, and all the sudden I was engaged in not only tube rolling, but also reading about history, electronics, electromagnetism and the whole tube world. There is absolutely nothing wrong with stock tubes if you enjoy them. But as been mentioned, never say never. Perhaps it is a seek of a sound or maybe just curiosity.
In anyway, I can't either go back to SS alone.
In fact, the only situacions I use my SS amp is when I am feeding it with my echo as a preamp.
And by the way, to anyone out there reading and not asking, if you have a question, please do!
There is plenty of knowledge around here and people willing to help.
I am not the most knowledgeable person regarding tubes. But I will do my best as I was also helped with all the kindness of the world.

Happy listening to everyone

 

[betula]

I think, my E80CCs are properly burned in now. I have to say, these are a straight improvement and elevate the amp to next level performance. Initially I found them a little aggressive and brighter, but luckily after burn in the sound got fuller and the edges smoother. With these Mullard E80CCs the 3A sounds way more dynamic than with any 12AU7s I tried. It is a bigger, bolder sound with larger space, more contrast, detail and dynamic precision. The only downside is that you have even less room to adjust the volume knob.