[cats4cans]

At the risk of "burying the lead" on my upcoming review of the Aegis (not really -- the review will about way more than Aegis vs HP8), both amps please my ears to no end. After >1 hr of head-to-head listening on my best headphones, a few perceptions:

• Not surprisingly, the Aegis pulls ahead somewhat in ultimate articulation and separation of voices and instruments. The clarity of this big tube design is exceptional, and the soundstage is somewhat wider
• But the HP8 runs a close second in every respect. It can't quite equal the big amp's articular and clarity, but it comes close. There is nothing fuzzy or vague about the HP8's sound--not bad for a compact 3-tube amp vs a full-size 5 tube amp. In addition, the HP8 has a somewhat deeper soundstage
• The bass of the Aegis is the best I've ever heard from a tube amp. But the HP8's bass goes a touch deeper and hits a bit harder, no doubt the result of the NOS RCA 6NS7s I'm using that escalated the HP8's bass noticeably over other NOS tubes. Both amps totally belie the myth that tube amps can't cut it vs SS in the bass
• Finally, the HP8 has a hard to describe sonic "beauty" on every cut & every genre, as if the music gives off a soft glow. It's not some "tubey" tonal thing (both amps are rather neutral). I'm not quite sure where this effect comes from, but I like it a lot

So it's the Aegis by 1/2 a length--as it should be for an amp twice the size & ~$1K more in price. The Aegis truly is a next level tube amp.

Regardless, after hearing the HP8 come so close to the best tube amp I ever heard, I appreciate it even more. The HP8 is one of the best audio purchases I ever made, a slam dunk from the 1st time I heard it.

Punchline: Buy an HP8 & hear for yourself what a sonic overachiever it is. Later on if you have the space & $$, buy the Aegis (it's quite amazing).

Solid advice. As usual.

And a pretty thorough comparison for just a quickie. Very much appreciated.

It’ll be interesting to read the rest of your impressions after you’ve had more time. I doubt it’s a surprise to anyone that the Aegis is great. I doubt very many amps that start as DIY projects get production runs.

I probably need to slow down on the acquisitions. More listening, less FOMO.

 

[jonathan c]

Drum roll for dream roll ....

Sylvania 'white print' 6SN7 pair in the V2 and V3 sockets, accompanied by

in the V1 socket. Think of CV4033 as an ultra version of CV455. All this feeding Nitsch/JAR 600 ===> absolute sonic heaven !

 

[geoffalter11]

Drum roll for dream roll .... Sylvania 'white print' 6SN7 pair in the V2 and V3 sockets, accompanied by in the V1 socket. Think of CV4033 as an ultra version of CV455. All this feeding Nitsch/JAR 600 ===> absolute sonic heaven !

Looks amazing...

 

[cats4cans]

Looks amazing...

Does anyone else ever think that @jonathan c must have some ulterior motive for presenting all these to die for tube combinations? I just can’t figure out what the angle is. It’s not like he sells tubes on the side and is artificially inflating demand. His tube collection would probably bankrupt some of us. Doing it just for bragging rights would be down right silly. I do hope you at least secure your own supply before sharing. It would be heartbreaking to generate your own competition in finding good deals.
Don’t mind me I’m just a little jealous.

 

[geoffalter11]

Does anyone else ever think that @jonathan c must have some ulterior motive for presenting all these to die for tube combinations? I just can’t figure out what the angle is. It’s not like he sells tubes on the side and is artificially inflating demand. His tube collection would probably bankrupt some of us. Doing it just for bragging rights would be down right silly. I do hope you at least secure your own supply before sharing. It would be heartbreaking to generate your own competition in finding good deals.
Don’t mind me I’m just a little jealous.

He also happens to be one of the most generous people on head-fi. He shares what his extensive knowledge and is very crafty and strategic about the tubes he buys. It would be easy to be jealous of his tube collection, but it is years in the making so kind of hard to fault the sharing of such an incredible collection. I can speak to his ulterior motive. To share his absolute and unabashed passion for tube amps and how the flavors change with different tubes. For as long as I have known him, I have never sensed any other ulterior motive other than pure love for music.

Just sayin'...

 

[cats4cans]

He also happens to be one of the most generous people on head-fi. He shares what his extensive knowledge and is very crafty and strategic about the tubes he buys. It would be easy to be jealous of his tube collection, but it is years in the making so kind of hard to fault the sharing of such an incredible collection. I can speak to his ulterior motive. To share his absolute and unabashed passion for tube amps and how the flavors change with different tubes. For as long as I have known him, I have never sensed any other ulterior motive other than pure love for music.

Just sayin'...

You should really only say nice things in PMs. Wouldn’t want him to get a big head. I wonder how often he rescues children and pets from burning buildings. Genuinely nice people are just awful. And helpful with requested advice and spare with the unsolicited. Awful.

 

[geoffalter11]

You should really only say nice things in PMs. Wouldn’t want him to get a big head. I wonder how often he rescues children and pets from burning buildings. Genuinely nice people are just awful. And helpful with requested advice and spare with the unsolicited. Awful.

I know. I actually gave money to the ALSPCA for about 2 years. I got roped in by one of their commercials about all the dogs that were dying. It was so sad. So, I donated $20 a month for 2 yrs to their cause. I felt I had done my part and it was now someone else's turn. They still send me something daily telling me all the animals I am now killing since I stopped giving them money. Flat out mean...

I definitely don't always say nice things. Just push the right buttons and you will find out... haha. But I have nothing but love for @jonathan c

 

[JonT]

Dropped in the Ken-Rad VT-231s yesterday. Driver is the Brimar CV455 KB/FB Triple Mica Footscray 12AT7.

Personally - disappointingly, to be honest - I couldn't detect any sonic differences whatsoever from the new production Psvane CV181-T MkII that were in immediately prior.

I've owned the HP8 SE since 2021 and have tried four different tubes in the V1 position - 2x NOS, 2x new production - and found marked differences there, not subtle at all.

Perhaps my ears aren't refined enough to detect changes in power tubes... or perhaps Psvane are able to manufacture something close to vintage standards?

 

[geoffalter11]

Dropped in the Ken-Rad VT-231s yesterday. Driver is the Brimar CV455 KB/FB Triple Mica Footscray 12AT7.

Personally - disappointingly, to be honest - I couldn't detect any sonic differences whatsoever from the new production Psvane CV181-T MkII that were in immediately prior.

I've owned the HP8 SE since 2021 and have tried four different tubes in the V1 position - 2x NOS, 2x new production - and found marked differences there, not subtle at all.

Perhaps my ears aren't refined enough to detect changes in power tubes... or perhaps Psvane are able to manufacture something close to vintage standards?

I heard biggest flavor changes with the driver tube as well. The EH 12AX7 that comes with amp is crap. The power tube change is way more subtle from my recollection. David Shaw would be smiling right now and would say told ya so. He used to tell me that the amp wasn’t built for rolling tubes. He could hear no difference.

I think the aggregate if having a great tube in each slot will provide flavor changes at most but not differences in sound quality. He says the transformers and Caps make up 90% plus if the sound of the amp.

That being said some people will hear bigger differences than others. I have also always said that the power tubes he orovudes sound amazing. I just didn’t like the way they seated in their positions which made rolling in power tubes compulsory. I found the PSvane’s noisy.

 

[JerseyD]

I heard biggest flavor changes with the driver tube as well. The EH 12AX7 that comes with amp is crap. The power tube change is way more subtle from my recollection. David Shaw would be smiling right now and would say told ya so. He used to tell me that the amp wasn’t built for rolling tubes. He could hear no difference.

I think the aggregate if having a great tube in each slot will provide flavor changes at most but not differences in sound quality. He says the transformers and Caps make up 90% plus if the sound of the amp.

That being said some people will hear bigger differences than others. I have also always said that the power tubes he orovudes sound amazing. I just didn’t like the way they seated in their positions which made rolling in power tubes compulsory. I found the PSvane’s noisy.

After trying different tube combinations (and thanks for selling me some, Geoffalter!), I am in agreement with all of this. Different drivers make more of an audible difference than the subtle changes brought about with different power tubes (unless all of my power tubes just happen to sound similar).

Someone in one of these threads (and I apologize for not remembering who) suggested that a nice power filter/conditioner would make a bigger difference than any particular tube roll and would make all my tubes sound better. So for the price of a pair of power tubes, I bought a Pine Tree Audio power filter and plugged the HP8, my DAC and streamer into it, which in turn was plugged into the Panamax surge protector/filter I had been using already. Right off the bat I noticed the background noise was lessened tremendously. I had been thinking that tube amps, or at least the HP8, must have that sheen of noise (when no music is playing) and that was just part of the deal. Well now it's 90% gone, and instruments are jumping out of a blacker background. So of course I'm thinking, would a "better" and more expensive filter/conditioner make even more of a difference? Please chime in with your experiences with this.

 

[shabta]

After trying different tube combinations (and thanks for selling me some, Geoffalter!), I am in agreement with all of this. Different drivers make more of an audible difference than the subtle changes brought about with different power tubes (unless all of my power tubes just happen to sound similar).

Someone in one of these threads (and I apologize for not remembering who) suggested that a nice power filter/conditioner would make a bigger difference than any particular tube roll and would make all my tubes sound better. So for the price of a pair of power tubes, I bought a Pine Tree Audio power filter and plugged the HP8, my DAC and streamer into it, which in turn was plugged into the Panamax surge protector/filter I had been using already. Right off the bat I noticed the background noise was lessened tremendously. I had been thinking that tube amps, or at least the HP8, must have that sheen of noise (when no music is playing) and that was just part of the deal. Well now it's 90% gone, and instruments are jumping out of a blacker background. So of course I'm thinking, would a "better" and more expensive filter/conditioner make even more of a difference? Please chime in with your experiences with this.

For tube amps generally the power tubes affect the sound conderably less then the driver tubes. With my Icon amp I stopped worrying about power tubes years ago, I won't say they make no difference, but not enough for me to obsess about it as long as something decent is in there. But today my driver tube crapped out after 7 plus years and need to find a good replacement LOL. I put in the stock tube in the meantime and nope.

I haven't had any problem with noise and my icon audio except when I plugged powerline ethernet into my wall. So I unplugged it and had an electrician put ethernet cables in my wall....

 

[JonT]

Anyone had experience with the Mullard 12AT7 (ECC81) 10M Master Series - I know the sales case at the time of manufacture was about their longevity...

... but what about their sonics? Do they sound just 'meh' but last ages? Or do they have Mullard magic?

How would one stand-up against a Brimar Footscray?

 

[Pharmaboy]

My review of the ZMF Aegis is up. Linking it here because I compare its sound to the Icon Audio HP8 (it's a real horse race!):

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/zmf-aegis-tube-headphone-amplifier.27206/reviews#review-33771

 

[geoffalter11]

After trying different tube combinations (and thanks for selling me some, Geoffalter!), I am in agreement with all of this. Different drivers make more of an audible difference than the subtle changes brought about with different power tubes (unless all of my power tubes just happen to sound similar).

Someone in one of these threads (and I apologize for not remembering who) suggested that a nice power filter/conditioner would make a bigger difference than any particular tube roll and would make all my tubes sound better. So for the price of a pair of power tubes, I bought a Pine Tree Audio power filter and plugged the HP8, my DAC and streamer into it, which in turn was plugged into the Panamax surge protector/filter I had been using already. Right off the bat I noticed the background noise was lessened tremendously. I had been thinking that tube amps, or at least the HP8, must have that sheen of noise (when no music is playing) and that was just part of the deal. Well now it's 90% gone, and instruments are jumping out of a blacker background. So of course I'm thinking, would a "better" and more expensive filter/conditioner make even more of a difference? Please chime in with your experiences with this.

You are welcome for the tubes... It is my pleasure. As for power filtering and conditioning, I use a PS Audio Dectet going into my wall socket and then all pieces into my Dectet. For my Roon NUC I use a Sbooster LPS for that, and then an Ifi Power X LPS for my Ethernet Switch. All aimed at eliminating as much noise as possible from my system. The biggest difference for me was removing my computer as my Roon Core and only using it as my Roon App. My DAC is also a streamer and I use that via Ethernet.

I also found with the HP8 that it would pick up noise from my cell phone. If my phone was close to the HP8 I would pick up static. David told me that this was very much possible. What I didn't understand is that none of my other electronics (amps, DAC, etc) that I had next to my HP8 created any electrical issues in terms of affecting the background noise picked up by the HP8. As long as I had my tubes properly seated (which the bottle neck PSvane's did not) and I kept my cell phone away from the amp I got perfectly inky black background from the HP8. David told me the amp is sensitive to certain electrical products if they are too close.

Otherwise, it sounds like you are on the absolute right path...