Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (8/18/2022: iFi GO Blu Review Added)
Oct 28, 2017 at 2:03 AM Post #39,226 of 48,561
What's your twitch stream? Got a link?
Oh, right, I should've linked that! It's, quite unsurprisingly, https://go.twitch.tv/namelesspfg

I probably won't be streaming for several hours yet; 2am here on the US East Coast, I should rest up a bit. I don't know when I'll start, but it'll probably be in the afternoon. 2pm-4pm Eastern, maybe?

Also, I haven't streamed in years, so I suppose I should watch out for any technical issues while starting that could stem from NVIDIA ShadowPlay or making poor video encoding choices for a mere 12.6 Mbps upload connection (THANKS COMCAST). Gotta have 60 FPS if I can swing it, though the real question is if I can also do 1080p at reasonable quality with that framerate.
 
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Oct 28, 2017 at 6:27 PM Post #39,228 of 48,561
Okay, I admit my plans to stream got considerably delayed for a litany of reasons, not least of which was troubleshooting a little "backwards audio" issue last night, but I think I'm ready to go now - at around 6:30pm Eastern, compared to my original estimate.

Don't worry about missing out; this is gonna run all night, several hours straight! Gotta catch up to everyone else, after all, and it gives you all time to form your impressions on the GSX 1000 if Twitch doesn't mangle the audio quality too much.
https://go.twitch.tv/namelesspfg
 
Oct 28, 2017 at 9:00 PM Post #39,230 of 48,561
Watching right now. The rear positional cues are outstanding, as is the sound stage from your head. Very cool!
Good to hear that it works! It seemed like nobody else was watching, so I hardly got any feedback about it, chat or otherwise.

While Twitch doesn't seem to be giving me the promised 60 FPS I wanted to stream with on my second monitor, if the audio cues are going through, clearly it's working out. It helps that Destiny 2's overall sound mixing and design is pretty good.

Meanwhile, I'm taking a dinner break. Gotta feed myself, after all. I'll resume streaming soon-ish, since I can't seem to pry myself away from this game.
 
Oct 29, 2017 at 2:29 PM Post #39,231 of 48,561
Don't worry, you and the others didn't scare me off or anything. I just found out what I wanted along this crazy audiophile journey and had to keep out of here for my wallet's sake. Otherwise, I'd probably still be sinking hundreds, if not thousands into Stax setups, maybe with a Smyth Realiser on top. Oh, and I really need to order a replacement driver or two for my MMX 300 already so I have a fallback in case something happens to my PC360.

What actually brought me back, though, was the sudden opportunity to review some Sennheiser gear - specifically the GAME ZERO headset (a closed-back version of the PC360/GAME ONE, from what I can tell) and the GSX 1000 USB "sound card" (DAC, ADC, and driverless 7.1 surround DSP, all in one plug-and-play unit). I need more time to form some solid impressions on both pieces of gear before I go writing anything up, though.

I would've also come back if I had the Ossic X to review, but yeah, I'm still waiting on that one, just like everybody else.

Actually, the G4ME Zero is based off from the Sennheiser PC350 Special Edition, which is also a gaming headset. I had it and I liked it but I never tried the Zero, especially the 50ohm version of the Zero. The PC350 SE was/is 150ohm and so is the 1st gen or V.1 of the Zero. The 2nd gen or V.2 of the Zero is 50ohm, difference are unknown to me from V1 to V2 so you might need to research that a bit.
 
Oct 29, 2017 at 6:08 PM Post #39,232 of 48,561
Actually, the G4ME Zero is based off from the Sennheiser PC350 Special Edition, which is also a gaming headset. I had it and I liked it but I never tried the Zero, especially the 50ohm version of the Zero. The PC350 SE was/is 150ohm and so is the 1st gen or V.1 of the Zero. The 2nd gen or V.2 of the Zero is 50ohm, difference are unknown to me from V1 to V2 so you might need to research that a bit.
I thought the PC350 didn't have the flip-up-to-mute mic boom and had the mute switch and volume control in-line rather than on the headset itself, actually. Maybe the Special Edition lifted those features from the PC360 - and on that note, I was actually trying to figure out if there was any difference whatsoever between the SE and non-SE versions of the PC360.

The second-gen GAME ZERO (note that it's not "G4ME" like a first-gen model) is what I was supplied alongside the GSX 1000, so it bears 50-ohm impedance and a spiffy detachable cable that I wish I could retrofit into my PC360 somehow. Other than dropping the mild 1337-speak branding there, I'm not aware of any differences otherwise.
 
Oct 29, 2017 at 7:37 PM Post #39,233 of 48,561
Okay, I admit my plans to stream got considerably delayed for a litany of reasons, not least of which was troubleshooting a little "backwards audio" issue last night, but I think I'm ready to go now - at around 6:30pm Eastern, compared to my original estimate.

Don't worry about missing out; this is gonna run all night, several hours straight! Gotta catch up to everyone else, after all, and it gives you all time to form your impressions on the GSX 1000 if Twitch doesn't mangle the audio quality too much.
https://go.twitch.tv/namelesspfg

Wasnt able to check out your stream, but how do you find the positional cues on the gsx 1000? I honestly just heard about it this weekend and am very interested in it as I have been searching out vss solutions. I currently use waves nx, have you compared the two? I find waves nx to be pretty good, but if there is something better I am definitely interested. I however dont really think I want to buy new headphones just for gaming as I am quite satisfied with my senn hd6xx overall, but I have read that the gsx 1000 is going to be underpowered for those. I am currently using a modi2/magni2 stack and have read that its possible to output the headphone output from the gsx to the magni, but it may not be the best idea.
 
Oct 29, 2017 at 9:24 PM Post #39,234 of 48,561
Wasnt able to check out your stream, but how do you find the positional cues on the gsx 1000? I honestly just heard about it this weekend and am very interested in it as I have been searching out vss solutions. I currently use waves nx, have you compared the two? I find waves nx to be pretty good, but if there is something better I am definitely interested. I however dont really think I want to buy new headphones just for gaming as I am quite satisfied with my senn hd6xx overall, but I have read that the gsx 1000 is going to be underpowered for those. I am currently using a modi2/magni2 stack and have read that its possible to output the headphone output from the gsx to the magni, but it may not be the best idea.
To cut it short: I think Sennheiser just got everyone beat on virtual 7.1. Well, maybe save for the Smyth Realiser, but let's be realistic now - that thing's out of the budget of most people.

The positional cues in Destiny 2 seem clearer to me on the GSX 1000 than my X-Fi Titanium HD, which is saying something considering that nothing else I tried could win me away from CMSS-3D Headphone even in newer games that just perform 7.1 speaker mixing at most. It's also effectively "driverless" (that is, it uses the OS's built-in USB drivers and nothing more) and only needs a bit of configuration to tell Windows to use it in 7.1 speaker mode, maybe with a side of setting all the communication apps to the "headset" output instead of the speaker one. (Windows also defaults to said headset output when you first plug it in, so you have to switch it over manually.) It's quite significant given how... quirky Creative drivers can be at random.

However, in terms of audio quality, it's far from flawless. I don't notice any hiss when connecting my GAME ZERO or PC360 directly (which already gives it a leg up over those old Astro Mixamps based on MLE's impressions), but feeding the output into my X-Fi's aux-in ruthlessly reveals an audible noise floor that I have to dial the input down five or six decibels on before it goes away. By contrast, I quickly tested my Galaxy Note 8 with the same cable and aux input, and despite not being an audiophile phone (that's a niche LG's V-series has all to itself), the noise floor was at least practically silent.

It's one of the big reasons I feel that Sennheiser should shave $100 off the MSRP, as I'm sure your Schiit stack handily spanks it on pure audio quality and amplification, and so does any competent sound card that also has virtual surround for headphones as part of its driver set. $200+ demands something that doesn't deliver less than the lauded ODAC + O2 or Modi + Magni combos in audio quality, while still packing the awesome virtual 7.1 mix, independent chat mixing (headset output in Windows + volume knob on the side), and a good ADC for the mic input.

Heck, I wouldn't mind a glorified preamp/pro mic interface version of the GSX 1000 that's meant to be used in conjunction with a proper headphone amp, perhaps even an external S/PDIF DAC. It'd leave a pure path for the DSP'd signal to shine through, and still keep the relative driverlessness intact.

But with all that criticism about general audio fidelity, my point still stands: out of everything I've tried for a virtual 7.1 speaker mix to date, Sennheiser comes out on top. The Smyth Realiser might dethrone it if I get my PRIR recorded in a nice theater, but the chances of that happening are slim to none.

I do admit, I haven't tried Waves NX or anything else software-based that isn't Razer Surround or X-Fi MB2/3 yet. Razer's implementation left me disappointed, and the latter's only something I dabble with if I'm mucking about with an integrated Realtek codec on some computer without an actual X-Fi card installed in the hopes that I can restore EAX support for older games. Maybe the other implementations being sold out there fare a bit better.
 
Oct 31, 2017 at 12:06 PM Post #39,235 of 48,561
To cut it short: I think Sennheiser just got everyone beat on virtual 7.1. Well, maybe save for the Smyth Realiser, but let's be realistic now - that thing's out of the budget of most people.

Many thanks for the reply. Yes, I would love to check out the smyth realiser... but at that price, its going to have to be something I wait a while for and really seriously consider if its worth it. And for gaming itself, the head tracking isn't really necessary since I want the positional cues to be relative to the view, not directly to my head.

So, yes, I definitely agree that it would be nice if the gsx1000 was simply the dac and I could feed it properly to the amp I already have (especially if it was priced more appropriately). That said, I am willing to spend what they are asking to have the best vss available (again, other than the realiser).

Waves nx has actually been pretty decent, but as a virtual surround device its still somewhat difficult to tell exactly how windows sees it, as an actual 5.1 device or just a 2 channel device. And for games like bf1, which are reliant on the windows config, it can be hard to tell if im getting real positional cues or just think I am (and making judgement calls based on what I can see on the screen). Would still like to try other options. Though I do like that they allow you to input your measurements to tweak the hrtf to your head specifically.

So, if I was to get the gsx1000, it sounds like it may not be powerful enough to properly power my HD6XX. And it sounds like the double amping solution may not be the best, so would I have to look at getting a new headset too? Is there anything that pairs particularly well with the gsx1000 strictly from a gaming/positional audio standpoint? For music/movies/everything else, my schitt stack and hd6xx are fine.
 
Nov 2, 2017 at 10:36 PM Post #39,236 of 48,561
I thought the PC350 didn't have the flip-up-to-mute mic boom and had the mute switch and volume control in-line rather than on the headset itself, actually. Maybe the Special Edition lifted those features from the PC360 - and on that note, I was actually trying to figure out if there was any difference whatsoever between the SE and non-SE versions of the PC360.

The second-gen GAME ZERO (note that it's not "G4ME" like a first-gen model) is what I was supplied alongside the GSX 1000, so it bears 50-ohm impedance and a spiffy detachable cable that I wish I could retrofit into my PC360 somehow. Other than dropping the mild 1337-speak branding there, I'm not aware of any differences otherwise.

I don't think the PC350 has that but the PC350 SE (Special Edition) does. Also, I don't think the PC360 has an SE version, it was just PC360....
 
Nov 3, 2017 at 12:27 PM Post #39,237 of 48,561
Have you guys seen this guide on reddit to get a bunch of virtual surround sound tech (including dolby, sennheiser, and creative) in software for free? https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...e_every_headphone_surround_virtualization_on/

Someone recorded the output of all of them and they can be reconstructed with the convolver in equalizer apo. Remember to give yourself a few days to get used to any new algorithm.
 
Nov 6, 2017 at 10:03 PM Post #39,239 of 48,561
Haven’t been on this thread in awhile since this thread taught me the perfect gaming set up ( personal opinion of course). I am currently using an Astro MixAmp pro with hd558 and an ant lion mod mic. This has worked great on my Xbox one, but I am about to pick up the Xbox 1x and I have no idea what will be changing with the new Dolby Atmos. Any suggestions on how to go about getting the best surround sound headphone gaming with the X? Preferably keeping my current mic and headphones. Sorry if this has been answered already.
 
Nov 7, 2017 at 3:29 AM Post #39,240 of 48,561
Haven’t been on this thread in awhile since this thread taught me the perfect gaming set up ( personal opinion of course). I am currently using an Astro MixAmp pro with hd558 and an ant lion mod mic. This has worked great on my Xbox one, but I am about to pick up the Xbox 1x and I have no idea what will be changing with the new Dolby Atmos. Any suggestions on how to go about getting the best surround sound headphone gaming with the X? Preferably keeping my current mic and headphones. Sorry if this has been answered already.
If atmos sounds good enough for your ears then You may just swap it for a portable amp and yse the 558 straight out of xbox one controller.
 

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