Meet the Sennheiser HD 820
Jan 15, 2018 at 8:15 PM Post #436 of 498
I’m having a quiet chuckle at all these posts gasping at the apparent lack of bass in a Sennheiser headphone. For someone who loves the ‘feel’ of real bass (as in live bass), I’m constantly amazed when someone tells me a headphone has great bass, only to listen and have it sound like watered-down tea. I thought I was a basshead before discovering deep, powerful bass can also have tone, texture and control, a-la Audeze planars, and to a greater extent ZMF’s closed headphones.

I have a running debate with many of my audiophile peers about Sennheiser bass - me holding the position that even the so-called bassy Senn 650 is bass shy, they saying the 650 has too much. So I understand where some people are coming from. It’s all a matter on how you like your sound and specifically your bass, and I for one have never heard a Sennheiser with what I consider to be sufficient bass for my liking. Doubt the HD820 will be any different, closed or not.

Whether that’s a good or bad thing is up to each of us individually.

Totally agree with you regarding the bass on the 650, even though I am fine with their balance. I have an older LCD2 rev 1, one of the best bass planars I have heard.

Oh and regarding Sennheiser bass.

Both HD250 and HD630VB have incredible bass, clarity and balance. The 630VB is so much fun in this regard. Finally, I can follow up listening to classical with trip-hop in a single can.

I do not expect the HD820 to have the bass quantities of either the HD250 or 630VB (well maybe the 630VB in neutral). My thinking here is that Senn has weaned a number of users that reference means a bit bass shy. I get it though, I think hearing bass for a number of people probably doesn't translate the same.

I've read that some people can't even stand the sensation, that it gives them a headache.

Lastly, I'll just recommend that if anyone wants true sub-bass with their uber-pricey 820s they probably can afford a SubPac. :)
 
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Jan 15, 2018 at 9:26 PM Post #437 of 498
If you are hoping that this is a closed-back that sounds clean and spacious, almost on the level of a lot of open designs, this might be the ticket.
That's what I'm hoping for. Can't speak for the others. It carries a name akin to the HD800 (like it's a cousin), so that's what I would expect...800 sound and space, with hopefully a smoother top.
 
Jan 15, 2018 at 9:45 PM Post #438 of 498
To Quote Mark Up:

"He addressed using it with the right amplifier and said the bass just wasn't there. It didn't sound like "less than I prefer" it was like "where is TF bass?". If they plan on these being accurate but neutral (light) bass like the HD800S, mission accomplished. A closed version of the HD650 with more sub bass for a much lower price, filling a bass happy niche, might be a nice next."

I agree with your post.

After the small Tyll Hertsen quick listen and opinion we get this new video which is actually fairly detailed. I would understand from the first impressions that they are like the HD800 with a slightly different sounding midrange as well as being great for not disturbing others with sound leakage.

But Mr. Hertsen has heard a lot of headphones and carries maybe the most respect of any reviewer on Head-Fi. He already knew what most of us were hopping for. These first impressions are not rocket science. Many know with-in seconds what a basic character is going to be. Of course the HD820 could maybe be taken to a different level with different sources and different amps? We surely will have a wave of aftermarket modifications. And yes, it's true, especially with flagships that they MAY have a slight change of build later which affects the tune, getting them to a better place. This hobby is measured in small increments of change not distances of difference. My fingers are crossed. Lol

Cheers!
 
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Jan 16, 2018 at 4:07 AM Post #439 of 498
There is a lot of science behind this headphone. This is what I like most about Sennheiser.
The price is high, but if the sound is similar or better than the HD800/S AND the fact it's a closed headphone already won me over more than half-way. Finally a real reference quality closed headphone (the much cheaper Denon D7200 almost make it, but not quite). However, I must exercise self control and wait for a year or so. The latest e-stats have set the bar very, very high. Let's see what else is cooking in the industry.
 
Jan 16, 2018 at 5:11 AM Post #441 of 498
Using an amplifier with higher output impedance would probably increase the bass though, right?

I used to think that about 5 years ago. And the subject has been a huge topic in threads, but it's generally thought that a more powerful amp simply delineates the bass better. The more powerful amp has better control over the dynamic driver allowing it to move in a more controlled way, which causes the bass to become more detailed and clear. The clear bass can mistakenly be perceived as more bass, but it's just better quality bass. At times the more powerful amp can add a small amount of extra bass, but the prior is really what's going on. It is easier to see this concept on a graph, where there is no doubt of more control, with just a fraction of more bass frequency. There are other factors which improve bass with a headphone but this is not the thread. My apologies for off topic in advance.
 
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Jan 16, 2018 at 5:22 AM Post #442 of 498
Using an amplifier with higher output impedance would probably increase the bass though, right?
1dB more lows on hd800s with 120Ω impedance out vs 0.2 Ω impedance
120-ohm.png
 
Jan 16, 2018 at 8:31 AM Post #443 of 498
To Quote Mark Up:

"He addressed using it with the right amplifier and said the bass just wasn't there. It didn't sound like "less than I prefer" it was like "where is TF bass?". If they plan on these being accurate but neutral (light) bass like the HD800S, mission accomplished. A closed version of the HD650 with more sub bass for a much lower price, filling a bass happy niche, might be a nice next."

I agree with your post.

After the small Tyll Hertsen quick listen and opinion we get this new video which is actually fairly detailed. I would understand from the first impressions that they are like the HD800 with a slightly different sounding midrange as well as being great for not disturbing others with sound leakage.

But Mr. Hertsen has heard a lot of headphones and carries maybe the most respect of any reviewer on Head-Fi. He already knew what most of us were hopping for. These first impressions are not rocket science. Many know with-in seconds what a basic character is going to be. Of course the HD820 could maybe be taken to a different level with different sources and different amps? We surely will have a wave of aftermarket modifications. And yes, it's true, especially with flagships that they MAY have a slight change of build later which affects the tune, getting them to a better place. This hobby is measured in small increments of change not distances of difference. My fingers are crossed. Lol

Cheers!
I am quite certain that under proper listening conditions (i.e. NOT a loud CES show) and extended listening, the bass will be there and in proper proportion to the rest of the spectrum. I am also quite certain that Sennheiser would not let loose a new headphone at CES with 'no bass' being among it's capabilities.

In time we will have more listening/auditioning and some measurements. Hopefully measurements from a few different reliable sources (or as reliable as measurements can be).
 
Jan 16, 2018 at 10:52 AM Post #444 of 498
I used to think that about 5 years ago. And the subject has been a huge topic in threads, but it's generally thought that a more powerful amp simply delineates the bass better. The more powerful amp has better control over the dynamic driver allowing it to move in a more controlled way, which causes the bass to become more detailed and clear. The clear bass can mistakenly be perceived as more bass, but it's just better quality bass. At times the more powerful amp can add a small amount of extra bass, but the prior is really what's going on. It is easier to see this concept on a graph, where there is no doubt of more control, with just a fraction of more bass frequency. There are other factors which improve bass with a headphone but this is not the thread. My apologies for off topic in advance.

As far as the amp goes, at the show Sennheiser had them hooked to HDV 820s, which I don't know much about, but I think it's fair to say that any perceived lack of bass wouldn't be due to the amp being so inappropriate for the headphone that it drops the bass by multiple decibels.
 
Jan 16, 2018 at 11:08 AM Post #445 of 498
It makes sense if this is meant to be a closed version of the HD800s. I appreciate the science that goes into Sennheiser but they fall short on affordable closed headphones. The popular HD598 in CS (closed) is a v shaped nightmare. The Momentum sounds better but like their other newer dark grey closed variants, ie. wireless, NR, portable closed versions, they can't seem to get past what seems to mess up 90% of all portable cans. Using ear cups that are too short, and shallow ear pads. Bose QC25 or QC35, love or hate it, is extremely portable and almost any size ear fits without touching anything, and the headband opens wide enough for even my 2XL hat size. Yet they'll fold flat and very small (the QC35) into their relatively small case. I won't even mention the Urbanite, that bright, uncomfortable, over-ear, so-called "Beats" competitor which rolls of in the bass as much as their HD600. Their large open cans that aren't meant to be portables, other than clamping issues, are extremely comfortable fitting. To present a bass-lighter version of their HD650 (the HD660S), and then a MassDrop Jubilee HD, which features (Woo!) even less bass than their bass starved HD600 means they aren't listening. An HD670 Semi Open and HD680 Closed, both with good sealing pleather, an HD650 price range, and more bass (with the similar highs), would be runaway successes to a larger crowd. Pack them with Velour pads, to allow those afraid of bass to reduce it, and increase the treble a bit. Sell them with a hard case & game changer.
 
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Jan 16, 2018 at 12:41 PM Post #446 of 498
MOARRRR BASSS!! Ha I just hope it sounds closer to an HD800s then an HD800 (I still like both, just prefer the added weight of the sound with the HD800s) I am very much looking forward to hearing it at CanJam NY. Hope to see you all there :)
 
Jan 17, 2018 at 8:34 AM Post #447 of 498
It makes sense if this is meant to be a closed version of the HD800s. I appreciate the science that goes into Sennheiser but they fall short on affordable closed headphones. The popular HD598 in CS (closed) is a v shaped nightmare. The Momentum sounds better but like their other newer dark grey closed variants, ie. wireless, NR, portable closed versions, they can't seem to get past what seems to mess up 90% of all portable cans. Using ear cups that are too short, and shallow ear pads. Bose QC25 or QC35, love or hate it, is extremely portable and almost any size ear fits without touching anything, and the headband opens wide enough for even my 2XL hat size. Yet they'll fold flat and very small (the QC35) into their relatively small case. I won't even mention the Urbanite, that bright, uncomfortable, over-ear, so-called "Beats" competitor which rolls of in the bass as much as their HD600. Their large open cans that aren't meant to be portables, other than clamping issues, are extremely comfortable fitting. To present a bass-lighter version of their HD650 (the HD660S), and then a MassDrop Jubilee HD, which features (Woo!) even less bass than their bass starved HD600 means they aren't listening. An HD670 Semi Open and HD680 Closed, both with good sealing pleather, an HD650 price range, and more bass (with the similar highs), would be runaway successes to a larger crowd. Pack them with Velour pads, to allow those afraid of bass to reduce it, and increase the treble a bit. Sell them with a hard case & game changer.
And I was wondering why people seems to forget the existence of 630VB in the lineup sometimes....
 
Jan 17, 2018 at 10:46 AM Post #448 of 498
And I was wondering why people seems to forget the existence of 630VB in the lineup sometimes....

The 630VB seems to have a small but enthusiastic crowd of owners from what I can tell. It's certainly on my list of headphones to get, based on what I've read from owners whose opinions I trust.
 
Jan 17, 2018 at 12:22 PM Post #450 of 498
Hmm, was just saying as you didn't mention it at all in your comment, it make me think tho, does it need to be limited to using the old HD600/ 650 design & sound tuning? I see that the 630 didn't really fly over many long time Sennheiser's fan radar because of its drastic departure from 6xx line's sound and design philosophy, but still....
Ahh what am I talking about?

Right, What I'm asking is: because Sennheiser has shown to be capable of delivering Hd800's sound in a closed form, that is with little change in sound Sig and design, is it time for people to start hoping for them to give the same treatment to the 6xx line? Is that what people want now?

Because really, I like the ever changing headphone line up, Sennheiser's current closed offerings doesn't really temp me right now but I wish for them to keep trying and show us what else they got to give in a new design. Not a rehash again and again.
I know those tried and tested design are what sells but, it's just not that interesting.

Edit for fixing typos
 
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