[kzii]

Well personally I'd be more inclined to trust Sennheiser and their engineers and their state of the art equipment as opposed to hobbyists with hand built measuring devices, which are really limited by environment when it comes to distortion measurements. When you look at distortion, look at the % of distortion we're talking about. To get really accurate readings, you need to be using an anechoic chamber and proper calibrated dummy-head. How many hobbyists have that equipment?

The stuff the hobbyists do on basic frequency response etc is admirable and pretty helpful. But taking the hobbyists THD and IMD readings as gospel over someone with far better set-ups is (IMO) just silly. Yes Sennheiser has a stake in this, but they have also proven over a number of years to be extremely competent in their design. I for one would trust their feedback on the situation until proven otherwise.

You are right here. I don't believe that sponsoring would have impact on their honest opinion. There is no reason for them to lie. HD800 and HD800S are bestselling TOTL headphones in the world and this won't change.

 

[wldcohso]

If someone doesn’t want there’s I’ll buy them from you for 500 bucks... *wink wink* lol I’ll just resell them for 1200 to h lol me fund the cost for Audio64 Tzar

 

[Pokemonn]

I guess we need Head-fi's headphone measurement database actually.

 

[wldcohso]

Y’all do realize this is a free site right and all the information that was provided was free Lol.. some of you come off in titled for no reason... this site can be a blessing and a curse at times because of a small group of snobs.

 

[DigMe]

Y’all do realize this is a free site right and all the information that was provided was free Lol.. some of you come off in titled for no reason... this site can be a blessing and a curse at times because of a small group of snobs.

Yes, this is a free site and there’s also a large amount of money at stake for the owner and the sponsors.

 

[wldcohso]

Yes, this is a free site and there’s also a large amount of money at stake for the owner and the sponsors.

There’s no darn money at stake lol... that’s funny... I know several people who don’t know about this site and they still got HD800S... this is just a discussion between hobbyists.

 

[Dino2000]

I thought the HD800 vs. HD800S story was old news by now.

 

[DigMe]

There’s no darn money at stake lol... that’s funny... I know several people who don’t know about this site and they still got HD800S... this is just a discussion between hobbyists.

Sorry, my friend, but your naïveté is showing. I did not say that only people who know of headfi would buy this headphone. Do you know how sponsorship works? Have you seen the list of sponsors for this site? If you really believe what you Said above then I know that you would be absolutely stunned by how much money is involved.

 

[Dino2000]

I thought the sponsor money was for running the site (those ads don't create themselves) and for alerting us to what is available to buy. Lately, I figured quite a bit went towards technology (G.R.A.S.) to prove that Tyll Hertsens is wrong about stuff.

 

[peter123]

There's people who, when they see something weird, try to do their best they can to provide real scientific explanations for why this is happening and there's people who's predetermined and just bitchig about things without ever making any research or real contributions. It's obvious that this thread, unfortunately, has both kinds.....

 

[ubs28]

Well personally I'd be more inclined to trust Sennheiser and their engineers and their state of the art equipment as opposed to hobbyists with hand built measuring devices, which are really limited by environment when it comes to distortion measurements. When you look at distortion, look at the % of distortion we're talking about. To get really accurate readings, you need to be using an anechoic chamber and proper calibrated dummy-head. How many hobbyists have that equipment?

The stuff the hobbyists do on basic frequency response etc is admirable and pretty helpful. But taking the hobbyists THD and IMD readings as gospel over someone with far better set-ups is (IMO) just silly. Yes Sennheiser has a stake in this, but they have also proven over a number of years to be extremely competent in their design. I for one would trust their feedback on the situation until proven otherwise.

I agree. That is why I don’t believe when a hobbyist does some measurements and declares to the world how wrong everybody else is and that he is right without any evidence.

Companies like Sennheiser with much more experience will most likely have more accurate measurements. It would be interesting to see their THD measurements.

 

[chungjun]

I think all of us appreciate open and civil discussion and sharing of ideas. While enjoying music is what this hobby is mostly about (and bask in the glory of having a collection of really fine set of gears ), the science, engineering or technical details behind all of it is what enable or allow us to do so.

I wonder, perhaps the actual debate could be better addressed in a more appropriate forum categorization under "Sound Science"? Just a thought...

 

[mikoss]

TLDR version of this debate:
-A bunch of people who know what they’re doing measured differences in second order harmonic distortion, which they attributed to perceived changes, particularly in bass presentation.

-Other people dispute there are differences, measure the differences, dispute that the measurements could change the presentation (they were measured, so obviously they could), and ask the manufacturer if the distortion was an intentional thing. The manufacturer says that it was not.

-A bunch of posters post a bunch of ridiculousness here.

 

[wldcohso]

I think all of us appreciate open and civil discussion and sharing of ideas. While enjoying music is what this hobby is mostly about (and bask in the glory of having a collection of really fine set of gears ), the science, engineering or technical details behind all of it is what enable or allow us to do so.

I wonder, perhaps the actual debate could be better addressed in a more appropriate forum categorization under "Sound Science"? Just a thought...

This is one of the most smartest ideas I’ve read here in a while.. the debate takes away the fun and enthusiasm.. based off what I’ve read, conversed about with friends, enthusiasts and professionals in this field is that the Sennheiser HD800/S set the bench mark for all highend headphones proceeding after it. No matter what head phone is released they’re always pinned up against one of sennheiser top of the line headphones. Sooooo, who benifits in the end by bashing HD800S? headphone manufacturers trying to emulate Sennheiser success and penetration into the market...

 

[swspiers]

We are all witnessing a huge "The emperor has no clothes" moment in online headphone reviews. Every reviewer who swore up and down that the HD 800S had audible distortion in the bass is now put on notice.

I do wonder how many people convinced themselves that the HD 800 bass was absolutely distortion free, and hence since the HD 800 S sounded different that they felt that must mean the HD 800 S was distorted.

Sounding different does not mean the sound is distorted. I suspect many people were simply not used to hearing the bass clarity of the HD 800 S in as resolving and detail oriented a headphone as the HD 800 S, and thus leapt to the conclusion that the bass presentation was distorted simply because it was not something they were used to in a headphone context.

Time to go back and look at all the reviewers who claimed distortion. I am starting my list...

Actually, even though I pretty much agree with you, "sounding different" is the very definition of 'distortion'. Every transducer distorts the signal in some way. Pretty much no way around it...