[MLGrado]

Much appreciated the measurements above, I might be mistaken, I wonder if the tube sound actually coming from the fact that (from the last graph) SINAD drops significantly from 15khz to 20khz from 98db to 82db - meaning there's quite a bit of distortion in the HF?

yeah, very possible.

I should run a test with the fundamental 5khz or higher to see what the harmonic distortion looks like up there.

 

[BShaw]

Since I'm waiting for my Cyan 2 to arrive, I've had a lot of time to think. I ordered the Cyan to replace my Gustard R26 in order to run DSD from HQP, thinking the Holo looks like a great "DSD machine" and probably a good value as well. Previously I'd been lusting for a Spring KTE as what I'd have to stretch to in order to appreciably outpace the R26 (and play DSD files).
Then came the Laiv Harmony. I first heard about it on John Darko's podcast with Srajan Eiben and was intrigued, and within two days it was everywhere with people inventing new superlatives to try to express their joy. Damn, $500 cheaper than the Spring and quite possibly a step beyond, maybe two steps.
This got me thinking, I wonder how the Laiv playing 768 PCM would compare to the little Cyan 2 running DSD? After all I've heard about DSD being clearly more organic, realistic, analogue, etc, I started to question everything. Go figure.

So now I want to put it out there and I'm really interested in what people have to say. I wonder first of all if there's anyone who thinks the DSD vs PCM thing might be a bit hyped (or not), and also if you think a DAC of the Laiv's class might overall be a better choice even with just PCM, because......it's just a better DAC?

I know this is pure speculation, but that's all I'm going to have to go by between now and the time I possibly cancel my Cyan order and send some money to Singapore.

I'm really looking forward to what some of you guys might have to say, there's a lot of knowledge and experience in this thread.

 

[sendler2112]

I finally found some settings that lets me say that I like the LAN DSD 256 conversion of 24/192 WAV files in the Gustard A26 better than LAN PCM 768. The ASDM7EC-super is a really nice sounding modulator. DSD conversion is way more processor hungry than PCM upsampling so I can only run the Poly-Sinc-Gauss-Long with that modulator before my processor starts skipping. The PCM using the TPDF dither can easily run the P-S-G-xla and the cooling fan barely runs, which might sound better for the DSD than the simpler P-S-G-long but my computer can't come close to running it. Attempting DSD 512 just immediately locks up the program with this computer. i7 13th/ Nvidia RTX 4060/ 16GB DDR5.

The PCM is still a bit wider and deeper but seems to tend toward the hyper etched and lean compared to the DSD with these settings which definitely has more power in the bass with everything warmer, more fleshed out and real. Reverb trailing edges are ok via DSD. Comparing the two makes me wonder if some of the extra fine decay that can be heard via PCM 768 is "enhanced" by artifacts rather than accurate. Check out the rim shots on the snare in the opening of the 24/192 remaster of Steely Dan Babylon Sisters.

 

[bogi]

Attempting DSD 512 just immediately locks up the program with this computer. i7 13th/ Nvidia RTX 4060/ 16GB DDR5.

It rather looks like your computer is not optimized for high performance.
I know people running i7-9th at DSD512. And my notebook (i7-11850H + RTX A2000) is capable of that too - with any modulator.
Of course, long room correction filters/convolution can change the situation.

 

[Jake2]

Since I'm waiting for my Cyan 2 to arrive, I've had a lot of time to think. I ordered the Cyan to replace my Gustard R26 in order to run DSD from HQP, thinking the Holo looks like a great "DSD machine" and probably a good value as well. Previously I'd been lusting for a Spring KTE as what I'd have to stretch to in order to appreciably outpace the R26 (and play DSD files).
Then came the Laiv Harmony. I first heard about it on John Darko's podcast with Srajan Eiben and was intrigued, and within two days it was everywhere with people inventing new superlatives to try to express their joy. Damn, $500 cheaper than the Spring and quite possibly a step beyond, maybe two steps.
This got me thinking, I wonder how the Laiv playing 768 PCM would compare to the little Cyan 2 running DSD? After all I've heard about DSD being clearly more organic, realistic, analogue, etc, I started to question everything. Go figure.

So now I want to put it out there and I'm really interested in what people have to say. I wonder first of all if there's anyone who thinks the DSD vs PCM thing might be a bit hyped (or not), and also if you think a DAC of the Laiv's class might overall be a better choice even with just PCM, because......it's just a better DAC?

I know this is pure speculation, but that's all I'm going to have to go by between now and the time I possibly cancel my Cyan order and send some money to Singapore.

I'm really looking forward to what some of you guys might have to say, there's a lot of knowledge and experience in this thread.

Not claiming to be one of the knowledgeable dudes you’re seeking comment from but if it was me I’d go for the LAiV, I know there’s a bit of hype but a few reviewers I rate especially Srbo from IIWI Reviews (and I guess Srajan of 6Moons who bought his review copy) rate it as a decent step up from the R26 and competing with higher priced DACs. I’d fear the Cyan 2 might be more of a sideways move.

(I realise I didn’t address your HQP upscaled PCM vs DSD qn at all sorry.. will leave that to the experts)

 

[Real Sound]

Not claiming to be one of the knowledgeable dudes you’re seeking comment from but if it was me I’d go for the LAiV, I know there’s a bit of hype but a few reviewers I rate especially Srbo from IIWI Reviews (and I guess Srajan of 6Moons who bought his review copy) rate it as a decent step up from the R26 and competing with higher priced DACs. I’d fear the Cyan 2 might be more of a sideways move.

(I realise I didn’t address your HQP upscaled PCM vs DSD qn at all sorry.. will leave that to the experts)

Let us know when your Cyan 2 arrives and give us your opinion I almost ordered that one one but It might cause me to later want to purchase the May kte edition . I have had a lampizator Gen 5 level 4 with dsd and pre - amp which I have had for many years. My second system I use RME. I have pre ordered the LAIV because it also has NOS mode and I2s input. I am also interested in the fact that it is able to present micro detail yet still sound somewhat organic and large sounding . I would also would experiment using the pre input on my Lampizator.

 

[TubaDuba]

What are the new dac corrections settings in HQPlayer? I could't tell the difference in filters at all

 

[BShaw]

That

That Laiv sure is the talk of the town! One reviewer did remark how it was similar to your R26 yet more grown up.
But if your goals include DSD with HQplayer know that the Laiv would convert your DSD to PCM.
The Cyan2 would be perfect for DSD and PCM. It seems to me that it was purpose built for HQplayer being NOS/Direct only.
I also read somewhere that someone who had the Cyan2 applied the new dac corrections in HQPlayer and found it on par to the May kte. Good Luck!

All good points Vera, but what I was trying to say is that I think the Laiv using only PCM may outperform the Cyan using DSD, even though many people sing the praises of DSD. I was hoping I might get some feedback on this admittedly super speculative comparison. It's really too bad Laiv didn't include a solid DSD pathway but it's understandable since it's a super-niche thing. Seems hard to argue that the Harmony is not overall a better piece of gear, unless I'm wrong?

I'm still prety analogue in my brain and preferences, hard to be so dependent on using the right settings and checking or unchecking this or that box lest I have playback issues. I cut bigger pieces of wood into smaller pieces and join them together for a living, it's suuuch a different mindset!

 

[BShaw]

Ah I see. The Laiv wins in the looks department.
I would argue that DSD is digital audios answer for analog brains.

A great example of irony if I've ever seen one! Not if you're talking about a pure DSD path from recording to playback of course, but in my case as is true for many here, I've just bought my second mac mini in a year hoping the M2 will be powerful enough to run DSD filters, and I need a paid tutor to help decide how to set things up in HQP! HQP, where I'm adding crazy algorithms created by one crazy genius from halfway across the world, through a COMPUTER, in order to listen to a song and be happy. Not a complaint by the way, I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't think it was worth it, but my analog brain isn't quite getting the same equation here

 

[dericchan1]

A great example of irony if I've ever seen one! Not if you're talking about a pure DSD path from recording to playback of course, but in my case as is true for many here, I've just bought my second mac mini in a year hoping the M2 will be powerful enough to run DSD filters, and I need a paid tutor to help decide how to set things up in HQP! HQP, where I'm adding crazy algorithms created by one crazy genius from halfway across the world, through a COMPUTER, in order to listen to a song and be happy. Not a complaint by the way, I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't think it was worth it, but my analog brain isn't quite getting the same equation here

Not trying convince you one way or the other. But it really is upto which side of the “hype” you choose to believe in really.

There are always going to be hypes and shrills when it comes to audio equipment. Ron from NRD claimed the cyan 2 being “97 % sounding like his May kte” if that’s not sufficient enough to suggest the cyan 2 punches way above its weight, i don’t know what is really

Rather than keep getting frustrated with a Mac, I went for a 13th gen Intel pc and it runs anything I throw at it for the past 2 years rock solid including the most recent dac output signal correction …

 

[Sound Eq]

greetings

I experience stuttering when using hqplayer in roon and listen to tidal ( PCM 1.5 )

I am using holo red as endpoint in roon which is connected to my spring 3 via usb

how can I playback hqp using pcm 1.5 without stuttering

I have an asus zephurus laptop with i7, 24 ram, and rtx 1080

 

[genefruit]

greetings

I experience stuttering when using hqplayer in roon and listen to tidal ( PCM 1.5 )

I am using holo red as endpoint in roon which is connected to my spring 3 via usb

how can I playback hqp using pcm 1.5 without stuttering

only under those conditions? So playback of local files with same settings works without stutter? Possibly increasing the buffer size in HQP could help. Does changing filters make a difference?

 

[Sound Eq]

only under those conditions? So playback of local files with same settings works without stutter? Possibly increasing the buffer size in HQP could help. Does changing filters make a difference?

there are so many filters and i do not know which to choose

 

[genefruit]

there are so many filters and i do not know which to choose

start with poly-sinc-gauss-long. Does it stutter?

 

[genefruit]

there are so many filters and i do not know which to choose

Is this your first time using HQPlayer or is this a new issue with your setup?