[theveterans]

I essentially do a blind listening test when I don't know a band is there, I haven't seen them, and yet I can tell it's a live band.

Speakers have different directionality than live band

 

[eq1849]

Believing and thinking hi-res is audibly superior to CD quality is probably "cool" and giving up such beliefs probably makes life dull. This is probably one reason why many hi-res fans don't let go their beliefs even when given a lot of reasons to do so. Digital audio is somewhat dull. Audible transparency has been achieved and CD quality is enough. Even less can be enough. Some people do vinyl, because analog formats have so much to play and tinker with. Personally I like the fact digital audio is so easy and perfect. I try to make my own life interesting in various ways. Exploring new music is one thing I do. Trying to collect music on CD while keeping the costs reasonable is another.

When I turned 40 I started to feel nostalgic for things in my past. I also started to feel the World isn't getting "better." New things including new technology doesn't necessarily improve my life. Time gives us new things, but it also destroys good old things. In the 90s I enjoyed spending time in the record shops of Helsinki. My Saturday ritual was to go to the center of Helsinki and visit the record shops to see if there are interesting new CDs to buy. Jokke, the shop keeper of Streetbeat store knew what kind of stuff I am after and when I entered the store he might show me the newest release from XL-Recordings and say "You are here for this, aren't you?" Then came the 21st century. First online shopping started to kill record stores. I also started to buy my music online from 1998 onwards because it felt convenient and often cheaper. CD sales in general where in decline after peaking in mid 90s and most record stores were just gone! That's how good things die. Good things must die to make room for new things. We can only hope the new things are also good, but they can also be worse.

Now at age 53 I feel very nostalgic for my past. The music I listened to at age 20 or so feels so cool again! I'm buying CDs I never bought in the past because of lack of money. That kind of music helps me cope with the anxieties of today. I don't even care if other people consider the music garbage. It's my garbage. It's garbage that improves my life. Now I am finally getting to the point of my post: Find your personal things in life that make you happy. Accept the fact than other people may not see the value of those things similarly. I can enjoy the music of Chyp-Notic without trying to prove the whole World it is good synth-pop. Trying to "prove" the superiority of hi-res is pointless.

CDs are definitely not garbage. You have every right to enjoy them.

 

[eq1849]

Gregorio....quick question.... any preferences when dithering you've found?

I've got two choices for a file I'm down converting: TPDF or MBIT?

 

[sunjam]

In a live music situation, even with mics and amp, it always sounds like live music, so long as the equipment isn't being converted to digital somewhere. It doesn't matter the cables or amps or speakers it always sounds like live music to me. Like I mentioned earlier...I can hear it the second I walk into a reception hall before I even see the band. And I've heard others comment about this as well. I can hear it I go to a bar and I'm in the parking lot. Point is, I can tell without seeing the band, or knowing a band is playing, that it's live music.

The minute they play recorded digital music when they take a break, through the same setup, then all of a sudden it doesn't sound like live music. I've never heard Digital sound like live music.






I am blind testing high res and its 1644.1 dithered down version, listening to one(don't know which) file each morning and guessing if it's high res or 16/44.1.

7/7 so far

Just wondering what high-res format you used? 24/192?

 

[gregorio]

In that case, what do you think would be the possible reason why he stated that when he replied to my comment? Can you share with your viewpoint? You know I could be wrong in interpreting someone's message.

Yes, you could indeed be wrong in interpreting someone’s message, especially as I shared “my viewpoint” in the sentences immediately after the one you quoted! lol
So you have my viewpoint, or do you mean share the reason why 2012 might have some significance to your false assertions about Monty’s video?

I know it is hard to face facts that are not compatible to your beliefs.

Yes, you keep proving that! There’s no point in stating it again in bold and big letters when you’ve already proven that’s what you’re doing and all of us accept that’s what you’re doing!

With your expertise in audio science, do you know if there is any measurement to quantify the level of ringing artifacts caused by different filter in a DAC?

No, there’s no way to quantify that. There is a way to quantify the ringing artefacts of different filters in response to a Dirac pulse but audio/sound recordings do not contain Dirac pulses. So ringing artefacts are rare or non-existent, are of low magnitude and that magnitude is near the Nyquist Freq when they do occur, so are of no concern.

I essentially do a blind listening test when I don't know a band is there, I haven't seen them, and yet I can tell it's a live band.
There's your blind listening test.

Where? That’s not a double blind test and it’s not even a test for your claim … but apart from that, it’s perfect! lol

I've got two choices for a file I'm down converting: TPDF or MBIT?

Unless you know the parameters of MBIT it’s impossible to know for sure. I’m presuming you’re referring to iZotope MBIT? That includes all sorts of parameters, including varying amounts of TPDF and Noise Shaping. If they’re the two available options I doubt they’re the same though, probably the MBIT option includes noise shaping, so you should use that one. At reasonable listening levels, you shouldn’t be able to hear either of them (or therefore the difference between them), so it doesn’t really matter but noise-shaping has been standard procedure for nearly 30 years and is technically the better option, except in professional use (certain production scenarios).

G

 

[theveterans]

Just wondering what high-res format you used? 24/192?

I think the audio setup, speakers and room he's using to playback the recorded audio matters 99% more than the recording format. Also, live instruments have different scale and reflections in the room than speakers so even my wife in the kitchen would easily tell a difference between recorded playback and live music

 

[sunjam]

No, there’s no way to quantify that. There is a way to quantify the ringing artefacts of different filters in response to a Dirac pulse but audio/sound recordings do not contain Dirac pulses. So ringing artefacts are rare or non-existent, are of low magnitude and that magnitude is near the Nyquist Freq when they do occur, so are of no concern.

Thanks for your reply.

So if there is no way to quantify ringing artifacts, is there any way to detect ringing artifacts if it happens?

 

[sunjam]

I think the audio setup, speakers and room he's using to playback the recorded audio matters 99% more than the recording format. Also, live instruments have different scale and reflections in the room than speakers so even my wife in the kitchen would easily tell a difference between recorded playback and live music

I think he is talking about a different test: he is doing blind test between Hi-Res and 44.1/16. Everything else should stay the same.

I am blind testing high res and its 1644.1 dithered down version, listening to one(don't know which) file each morning and guessing if it's high res or 16/44.1.

7/7 so far

 

[theveterans]

@sunjam

Let me know about your thoughts about these articles, and it might answer some of your questions regarding ringing, oversampling, etc.

You can be critical with these articles too, and let us know what you find that is critical to the two articles below:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/12/howto-musings-playing-with-digital_23.html
https://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/01/audiophile-myth-260-detestable-digital.html

 

[gregorio]

So if there is no way to quantify ringing artifacts, is there any way to detect ringing artifacts if it happens?

Your question makes no sense. There’s no way to quantify (calculate) in advance the ringing artefacts with audio recordings but there’s obviously a way to quantify them when they happen, as you well know because you’ve repeatedly reposted the stair-step output graphic from an article that also has several graphics showing different filter output ringing artefacts. Surely you’re not quoting an article you haven’t even read?

G

 

[sunjam]

Your question makes no sense. There’s no way to quantify (calculate) in advance the ringing artefacts with audio recordings but there’s obviously a way to quantify them when they happen, as you well know because you’ve repeatedly reposted the stair-step output graphic from an article that also has several graphics showing different filter output ringing artefacts. Surely you’re not quoting an article you haven’t even read?

G

I bet you misunderstood my questions.

quantifiable = something that can be measured and assigned a value to

To quantify something means to measure something with value

e.g.

detectable = something that can be detected if it happens

To detect something means to check if something happens.

I didn't say audio recording. Looks like the phrase "audio recording" appears in your mind? Illusion?

 

[gregorio]

Let me know about your thoughts about these articles, and it might answer some of your questions regarding ringing, oversampling, etc.

What are you talking about? You complain just a few posts about someone putting words in your mouth and here you are doing exactly the same. There’s a word for that! As I do not have “questions regarding ringing, oversampling, etc.”, how could those articles answer some of them? Duh!

You can be critical with these articles too, and let us know what you find that is critical to the two articles below:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/12/howto-musings-playing-with-digital_23.html
https://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/01/audiophile-myth-260-detestable-digital.html

I have not studied them but generally archimago is quite (but not always) correct/accurate. Not that that will make any difference, the original article you took your graphics from was accurate but that didn’t stop you from cherrypicking and butchering it into pseudoscience. Are you going to cherrypick and butcher these two articles as well?

G

 

[bigshot]

I essentially do a blind listening test when I don't know a band is there, I haven't seen them, and yet I can tell it's a live band.

The band cooperates with your blind test? Yeah, right.

 

[theveterans]

Nothing malicious or anything. Just curious to know what sunjam thinks regarding those two articles. Then again, the articles themselves have lots of references to support his (Archimago not sunjam for clarification) statements so there’s way more to read than those two articles alone. I have my own opinions too but I keep it for myself though I can disclose that I’m more of a centrist than not but I’m very comfortable providing objective data to dispel an obvious/common sense error, but when it comes to the grey area where some can hear better than others such as goldensound passing digital filters abx, I tread lightly

 

[sunjam]

No, there’s no way to quantify that. There is a way to quantify the ringing artefacts of different filters in response to a Dirac pulse but audio/sound recordings do not contain Dirac pulses. So ringing artefacts are rare or non-existent, are of low magnitude and that magnitude is near the Nyquist Freq when they do occur, so are of no concern.

In the above comment you said "there's no way to quantify that"

Your question makes no sense. There’s no way to quantify (calculate) in advance the ringing artefacts with audio recordings but there’s obviously a way to quantify them when they happen, as you well know because you’ve repeatedly reposted the stair-step output graphic from an article that also has several graphics showing different filter output ringing artefacts. Surely you’re not quoting an article you haven’t even read?

G

In the above comment you said "there's obviously a way to quantify them when they happen"

Which one is correct? My original question didn't ask to quantify (calculate) in advance or any audio recordings.

What is your answer now for the my earlier questions again? i.e.

With your expertise in audio science, do you know if there is any measurement to quantify the level of ringing artifacts caused by different filter in a DAC?

So if there is no way to quantify ringing artifacts, is there any way to detect ringing artifacts if it happens?

p.s. Of course, I did read the original articles. I doubt if you read it.