A2029
Member of the Trade: 1101 AudioFormerly known as swich401
BH/BH+ can reach up to ~24V rms output from 1.2V rms input (using 6J5 driver tubes), so even standard 2V RCA input is plenty
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So mr @A2029 when you are saying more about your upcoming amp?
How about 6?
Random musings to keep bumping this thread:
- 5998 glow is hard to beat, as is the sound
- 2 sounds good, but 4 sounds better
OK, fine... For science, and posterity:How about 6?
That's a whole lotta burning of very 'spensive heaters all at once. Thank you for the cheap thrills! Not cheap for you!OK, fine... For science, and posterity:
It sounds pretty good... Honestly I'm not sure how different it sounds from 2 or 4 as I got a new DAC two days ago and my brain is still adjusting.
According to Mischa's table in the Blue Halo+ guide, the output impedance of 6x 5998 drops down to 14-15 ohm. Not as drastic of a change compared to going from 2 to 4.
I have been hesitant to try 6x out. Although Mischa said the amp has extra-beefy components with enough power to handle safely, the extra strain on the components (from the heat I believe?) would likely reduce the lifespan for some of the components.
@leftside's peer pressure has been weighing on me for weeks, so I felt it was time to finally time to try this out. Out of curiosity (and being a little nervous) I decided to run an experiment to monitor the temps.
There is a temperature sensor inside my amp that was added to the LED controller board. It's not super accurate, but gives a rough idea (within a few degrees) of the ambient temperature inside the case. I check this pretty regularly to get a sense of if the amp is warmed up. I have a pretty good idea of what's within "normal range". BH runs at ~80-85 degrees and BH+ runs at 90-100 depending on tubes used.
There are two Noctua 120x15mm fans on the bottom of the case to provide active cooling. There's an external fan controller I have set to 60-65%. That seems to be the sweet spot between low noise and adequate cooling. One time I accidentally unplugged the fans, so I have seen the amp get dangerous hot (130+ F ambient). The case was scalding! I try to keep it under 100 F.
After turning amp on, I started capturing a temp reading every minute until it stopped increasing:
Highest reading was 94 F ambient. After an hour or so I cranked the fans to 100% and ambient temps rapidly dropped down to around 84 degrees F.
The results were pretty surprising to me as I've seen higher ambient temps from just 2x 6520 or 4x 6080. The sides of the amp (where most of the heat sinking happens) did feel quite hot, but unfortunately I don't have a temp gun to measure surface temps. Since I can't measure the amp chassis temps: I think the ambient readings are interesting, but not enough to draw any real conclusions from.
This was done out of curiosity, not to try to prove it's safer than the manual states. Listen to the warnings in the manual on reduced amp life!
With how good the amp sounds in all the other configurations, I don't think I'll be doing this again... 6528 gets to the same output impedance in BH+ mode and Mischa has said that shouldn't have any detrimental impact to component life span.
End experiment. Party mode engaged:
6 is dangerous, you should throw 2 in my dangerous tube bin!OK, fine... For science, and posterity:
It sounds pretty good... Honestly I'm not sure how different it sounds from 2 or 4 as I got a new DAC two days ago and my brain is still adjusting.
According to Mischa's table in the Blue Halo+ guide, the output impedance of 6x 5998 drops down to 14-15 ohm. Not as drastic of a change compared to going from 2 to 4.
I have been hesitant to try 6x out. Although Mischa said the amp has extra-beefy components with enough power to handle safely, the extra strain on the components (from the heat I believe?) would likely reduce the lifespan for some of the components.
@leftside's peer pressure has been weighing on me for weeks, so I felt it was time to finally time to try this out. Out of curiosity (and being a little nervous) I decided to run an experiment to monitor the temps.
There is a temperature sensor inside my amp that was added to the LED controller board. It's not super accurate, but gives a rough idea (within a few degrees) of the ambient temperature inside the case. I check this pretty regularly to get a sense of if the amp is warmed up. I have a pretty good idea of what's within "normal range". BH runs at ~80-85 degrees and BH+ runs at 90-100 depending on tubes used.
There are two Noctua 120x15mm fans on the bottom of the case to provide active cooling. There's an external fan controller I have set to 60-65%. That seems to be the sweet spot between low noise and adequate cooling. One time I accidentally unplugged the fans, so I have seen the amp get dangerous hot (130+ F ambient). The case was scalding! I try to keep it under 100 F.
After turning amp on, I started capturing a temp reading every minute until it stopped increasing:
Highest reading was 94 F ambient. After an hour or so I cranked the fans to 100% and ambient temps rapidly dropped down to around 84 degrees F.
The results were pretty surprising to me as I've seen higher ambient temps from just 2x 6520 or 4x 6080. The sides of the amp (where most of the heat sinking happens) did feel quite hot, but unfortunately I don't have a temp gun to measure surface temps. Since I can't measure the amp chassis temps: I think the ambient readings are interesting, but not enough to draw any real conclusions from.
This was done out of curiosity, not to try to prove it's safer than the manual states. Listen to the warnings in the manual on reduced amp life!
With how good the amp sounds in all the other configurations, I don't think I'll be doing this again... 2x 6528 gets to the same output impedance as 6x 5998 in BH+ mode, and Mischa has said that shouldn't have any detrimental impact to component life span.
End experiment. Party mode engaged:
OK, fine... For science, and posterity:
It sounds pretty good... Honestly I'm not sure how different it sounds from 2 or 4 as I got a new DAC two days ago and my brain is still adjusting.
According to Mischa's table in the Blue Halo+ guide, the output impedance of 6x 5998 drops down to 14-15 ohm. Not as drastic of a change compared to going from 2 to 4.
I have been hesitant to try 6x out. Although Mischa said the amp has extra-beefy components with enough power to handle safely, the extra strain on the components (from the heat I believe?) would likely reduce the lifespan for some of the components.
@leftside's peer pressure has been weighing on me for weeks, so I felt it was time to finally time to try this out. Out of curiosity (and being a little nervous) I decided to run an experiment to monitor the temps.
There is a temperature sensor inside my amp that was added to the LED controller board. It's not super accurate, but gives a rough idea (within a few degrees) of the ambient temperature inside the case. I check this pretty regularly to get a sense of if the amp is warmed up. I have a pretty good idea of what's within "normal range". BH runs at ~80-85 degrees and BH+ runs at 90-100 depending on tubes used.
There are two Noctua 120x15mm fans on the bottom of the case to provide active cooling. There's an external fan controller I have set to 60-65%. That seems to be the sweet spot between low noise and adequate cooling. One time I accidentally unplugged the fans, so I have seen the amp get dangerous hot (130+ F ambient). The case was scalding! I try to keep it under 100 F.
After turning amp on, I started capturing a temp reading every minute until it stopped increasing:
Highest reading was 94 F ambient. After an hour or so I cranked the fans to 100% and ambient temps rapidly dropped down to around 84 degrees F.
The results were pretty surprising to me as I've seen higher ambient temps from just 2x 6520 or 4x 6080. The sides of the amp (where most of the heat sinking happens) did feel quite hot, but unfortunately I don't have a temp gun to measure surface temps. Since I can't measure the amp chassis temps: I think the ambient readings are interesting, but not enough to draw any real conclusions from.
This was done out of curiosity, not to try to prove it's safer than the manual states. Listen to the warnings in the manual on reduced amp life!
With how good the amp sounds in all the other configurations, I don't think I'll be doing this again... 2x 6528 gets to the same output impedance as 6x 5998 in BH+ mode, and Mischa has said that shouldn't have any detrimental impact to component life span. Not to mention 6x 5998 are also at least 10x more expensive than than a pair of 6258's!
End experiment. Party mode engaged:
Thanks for the explanation @A2029! Helpful to know that the ambient temps are pretty much irrelevant. I definitely didn't feel like there was any real material benefit to running 6x from a sonic perspective. Not worth it!Main reduction in amp lifespan running 6x of the 6080/6AS7/5998 is from the heavy current running through the electrolytic capacitors in the heater supplies. High current causes the electrolyte within the caps to heat up and dry out over time. Even with the long-life capacitor upgrade those caps see so much current when running 6x 6080/6AS7/5998 that their internal temperature would be quite a lot higher than the ambient temperature and the stress on them is pretty significant. Okay to try out for short periods once in a blue moon but definitely will reduce the lifespan of the amp if run for prolonged periods, so I generally suggest just sticking with 4x as max
Very nice!OK, fine... For science, and posterity:
It sounds pretty good... Honestly I'm not sure how different it sounds from 2 or 4 as I got a new DAC two days ago and my brain is still adjusting.
According to Mischa's table in the Blue Halo+ guide, the output impedance of 6x 5998 drops down to 14-15 ohm. Not as drastic of a change compared to going from 2 to 4.
I have been hesitant to try 6x out. Although Mischa said the amp has extra-beefy components with enough power to handle safely, the extra strain on the components (from the heat I believe?) would likely reduce the lifespan for some of the components.
@leftside's peer pressure has been weighing on me for weeks, so I felt it was time to finally time to try this out. Out of curiosity (and being a little nervous) I decided to run an experiment to monitor the temps.
There is a temperature sensor inside my amp that was added to the LED controller board. It's not super accurate, but gives a rough idea (within a few degrees) of the ambient temperature inside the case. I check this pretty regularly to get a sense of if the amp is warmed up. I have a pretty good idea of what's within "normal range". BH runs at ~80-85 degrees and BH+ runs at 90-100 depending on tubes used.
There are two Noctua 120x15mm fans on the bottom of the case to provide active cooling. There's an external fan controller I have set to 60-65%. That seems to be the sweet spot between low noise and adequate cooling. One time I accidentally unplugged the fans, so I have seen the amp get dangerous hot (130+ F ambient). The case was scalding! I try to keep it under 100 F.
After turning amp on, I started capturing a temp reading every minute until it stopped increasing:
Highest reading was 94 F ambient. After an hour or so I cranked the fans to 100% and ambient temps rapidly dropped down to around 84 degrees F.
The results were pretty surprising to me as I've seen higher ambient temps from just 2x 6520 or 4x 6080. The sides of the amp (where most of the heat sinking happens) did feel quite hot, but unfortunately I don't have a temp gun to measure surface temps. Since I can't measure the amp chassis temps: I think the ambient readings are interesting, but not enough to draw any real conclusions from.
This was done out of curiosity, not to try to prove it's safer than the manual states. Listen to the warnings in the manual on reduced amp life!
With how good the amp sounds in all the other configurations, I don't think I'll be doing this again... 2x 6528 gets to the same output impedance as 6x 5998 in BH+ mode, and Mischa has said that shouldn't have any detrimental impact to component life span. Not to mention 6x 5998 are also at least 10x more expensive than than a pair of 6258's!
End experiment. Party mode engaged:
My "ridiculous" "V6 Thunder" is fine with 6 5998's tho right? Well, it's been running that config for almost 4 years, so I presume so. Sometimes I do throw in 6 6080 or 6 6AS7G for fun as well.Main reduction in amp lifespan running 6x of the 6080/6AS7/5998 is from the heavy current running through the electrolytic capacitors in the heater supplies. High current causes the electrolyte within the caps to heat up and dry out over time. Even with the long-life capacitor upgrade those caps see so much current when running 6x 6080/6AS7/5998 that their internal temperature would be quite a lot higher than the ambient temperature and the stress on them is pretty significant. Okay to try out for short periods once in a blue moon but definitely will reduce the lifespan of the amp if run for prolonged periods, so I generally suggest just sticking with 4x as max
My "ridiculous" "V6 Thunder" is fine with 6 5998's tho right? Well, it's been running that config for almost 4 years, so I presume so. Sometimes I do throw in 6 6080 or 6 6AS7G for fun as well.