[Appless]

Let me start off by saying this will be the first time that i am able to spend a fair chunk of change on audio gear. I have very little experience or knowledge in this field but am very keen on learning. I'm constantly doing research on everything I feel I should know and want to be sure that I'm getting the most out of my money. In saying this, please feel free to correct me if I am incorrect and set me straight.

The next point I should mention would be the music I listen to. Mostly electronic, hip hop, and jazz. However, i'm slowly branching out to different genres of music so I want something that will ultimately sound acceptable with most any type of music. 

My budget is roughly 3500$. That includes DAC, headphone amp, and a Pair (or two) of headphones. If you think it would be a better idea to two pairs of mid-level headphones please voice your opinion.

At the moment, I have put together a set up that I think will do the trick. After doing a bit of research, the LCD-2s sound like they would suit my needs perfectly. Well known for their bass and overall smooth sound. For the DAC ether the Benchmark DAC1 or the Anedio D2. The headphone amp looks like the WA6SE or the WA2. People say that the WA6SE is slightly more upbeat and face paced, which I feel would match well with the LCD-2.

These are just what I have come up with on my own. They may be not at all what i'm looking for, or they might be almost perfect with a different this or that. Any component is interchangeable as long as the reason is valid.

 

[wolfetan44]

Audez'e LCD3. Not sure about amping.. Maybe a Headroom Ultra Desktop Amp(DavidMahler recommends it with the LCD3) as for a DAC.. Not sure.

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,
 
I like your style, skip everything and go flagship. It actually is cheaper in the long run to do this (assuming you don't just buy a few flagships in your quest to simply "know" several of them).
 
Going all-in can also be bad form. Knowing nothing about the mid-fi realm of under $1k setups, you may find out that a $3k setup actually doesn't sound much different. And there's honestly the option of actually liking something that costs less than something that costs more (I know this is weird crazy talk for audiophiles... but hey, you never know).
 
Basically, I would suggest a few tiers of setups for you to explore. While the LCD2 is my first thought for you, it doesn't mean you'll like it, and it certainly doesn't mean you'll actually be able to stand it's weight and feel (it's not the most comfortable headphone for everyone). So there's more to it than simply sounding great, it truly needs to feel great too or it's a problem. I also don't think you should jump into $1k+ source equipment without even knowing what any of it does or is actually. In this hobby, over-spending is an understatement. I'm simply pushing the point that past a certain level, the return for your money is a big long plateau that is mostly measurable only by very precise sensitive pieces of equipment, which is the opposite of a human ear (quite the dull device, it is).
 
Anyhow, some suggestions to get the ball rolling:
 
Headphone:
 
Hifiman HE-400
Beyer DT880 PRO 250ohm
Mr Speaker Mad Dog
Sennheiser HD650
Denon D2000/5000
 
Source:
 
JDS Labs ODAC & O2 AMP
Schiit Modi & Magni
Fiio E07k & E09k
NFB 15.1
 
Any combination of the above would be an excellent start under $500~600 for someone with no experience, but with plenty of life span and good enough even for someone with a life time's experience. After this is what I would say is a major plateau. You can spend way more, and get a little bit better sound at the end of that cost, but it's not proportional at all, and rather, only a tiny, subtle, if even perceivable amount of gain. I say this as someone who does it over-the-top when it comes to equipment and has over 48+ headphones. I'm not just a budget freak, I just don't recommend everyone drop tons of money and truly understand and suggest that a $500 setup is probably as good, end of the day, as a $2k setup for someone listening to music and not listening to gear and psychologically knowing A is better than B and therefore it sounds better to them magically. I'm truly not a golden ears person. But I love gear, so I over do it.
 
To take it up a notch:
 
Headphones:
 
Audeze LCD2 r2
Hifiman HE-500
Beyer T1
Ultrasone Signature Pro
Denon D7000 & 7100
Sennheiser HD800
 
These can really be powered by gear mentioned previously.
 
It's all about taste. I went from a $900 source setup to a $450 source setup and liked it way better, because to my ears it just sounded better. Cost really isn't a good indicator in this hobby after entry level price points.
 
And another notch:
 
Headphones:

Stax
Fostex TH900
Custom-anything-Balanced-anything-Go-Crazy
 
Very best,

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Going all-in can also be bad form. Knowing nothing about the mid-fi realm of under $1k setups, you may find out that a $3k setup actually doesn't sound much different. And there's honestly the option of actually liking something that costs less than something that costs more (I know this is weird crazy talk for audiophiles... but hey, you never know).
 
Any combination of the above would be an excellent start under $500~600 for someone with no experience, but with plenty of life span and good enough even for someone with a life time's experience. After this is what I would say is a major plateau. You can spend way more, and get a little bit better sound at the end of that cost, but it's not proportional at all, and rather, only a tiny, subtle, if even perceivable amount of gain. I say this as someone who does it over-the-top when it comes to equipment and has over 48+ headphones. I'm not just a budget freak, I just don't recommend everyone drop tons of money and truly understand and suggest that a $500 setup is probably as good, end of the day, as a $2k setup for someone listening to music and not listening to gear and psychologically knowing A is better than B and therefore it sounds better to them magically.

 
Good deal of wisdom here, which it would be useful even for the Headphoneus Supremuses to take on board. There is no guarantee that price equals even performance, let alone individual satisfaction. Jumping to a flagship could very well mean jumping over the very headphone that would have suited at half the cost, and at that point going backwards, given the subtle psychological pressures here, would be very difficult. Best to get acquainted with mid-fi before moving on, even if it means buying used. For instance, I've recently purchase a DT880 Pro new for $240 and an ATH-AD900 used for $115, and I see on Ebay a new Q701 for $205. All of these would be worth sampling if only to get one's bearings, at very little cost once they were resold.

 

[jiggahwhat]

$3500 is well above what a good LCD-2 setup would cost. wolfetan's suggestion of the LCD-3 is not a bad choice by any means
 
@Malevax - It's great that your post is so detailed, but perhaps it would be more useful to OP if the options were narrowed down a bit. 

 

[Maxvla]

LCD-2 is a great can if you are looking to burst onto the scene. It handles just about every genre well and is tuned a bit dark so that it won't give you any brightness problems. I've heard these cans on several different rigs and while they never really sounded bad, I never particularly cared for them on any of the tube amps I've heard them with. I've heard them on one hybrid and one solid state and liked them well on both of these. I have a set of LCD-2 in the mail that will arrive Friday to pair with my solid state balanced amp so I'll be able to give a better informed opinion soon. My feeling is that a 'typically solid state' (read: bright/clean/ruthless) amp will be a great combination for a dark, slightly thick, luscious, forgiving LCD-2. I will know this weekend and report back here. Assuming this is correct a setup I would recommend would be:

LCD-2 w/ balanced cable $995 (swap from regular cable available upon special request, or buy extra for $80)
Schiit Gungnir $750/850
Schiit Mjolnir $750
Schiit PYST (balanced)

This puts you at the top of mid-fi and entering summit-fi territory. It will run you about $2500 for the whole kit and give you a real taste for high end without straying too far from the popular path. All 3 of these items are very well regarded and would be easily and quickly sold later if you decided to get out of the hobby, or change up your gear.

 

[ev13wt]

If you have that much money to spend in one go, try to make it to a headphone meet and test out many different headphones and amps!

 

[Maxvla]

Good idea. Where are you from? Perhaps we can direct you to a local meet.

 

[davidsh]

Start mid-fi and try a lot of cans. Then worry about upgrading

 

[MattTCG]

^^ Malv is giving you some pearls of wisdom here. All the gear/hp recommendations that he's makes are spot on and I'd suggest pretty much the same. The reason the he and others will suggest starting a little lower on todem pole is that you can often get a very high percentage of what will make your ears sublimely happy for a lot less than flagship cost. There is just so much bang for the buck currently in the mid sector right now. 
 
Then it becomes a question of how much you're willing to spend to get a 10% improvement...or a 5% improvement. 
 
The other issue that many of us would relate to is this. Part of the journey is the enjoyment of the process. I stared with a $50 pair of hp's recommended to me by none other than Malv. 

 It was great fun to climb the ladder. I went from budget-fi to mid-fi to flagship and then came back to mid-fi. The cool thing for me is that I have a good idea of what a lot of hp's sound like. I know their strengths and weaknesses and enjoy talking to others about it. I also get enjoyment helping others getting started in this crazy hobby. 
 
It's all about what YOU want from this hobby. Malv also makes a good point about going to a flagship and saving money. The way most of us do it is not the cheapest. You could get an lcd3 with a good amp and dac and just listen and enjoy it for the next 10-20 years. It would be great listening, no doubt. Most of us are able to try out gear and resell here for a very modest loss and then move on to something else. It would be interesting to know what I've "lost" on gear that I've bought and sold over the past two years. Hmmm...

 
There are places where you can rent hp's for a fee. That would give you chance to try it before you buy it. Justin at headamp has a loaner program that recently started which would be another way to check out a few hp's. 
 
Best of luck and enjoy the journey.
 
Matt

 

[Appless]

Thanks for all the info guys, anything helps.
 
I was directed to the summit-fi forums so I've also posted this there. No response yet so i'll leave this one up for the time being.
 
It makes sense to start in an affordable range and then work up from there. Most people do say that it's all about the journey and that working your way up the ladder is one of the most enjoyable things about this hobby. The problem is that i don't know when i'm going to be able to afford anything like this for awhile since i'll be going to school in the fall. If possible, i'd like to reach as close to the peak as i can and then go from there. 
 
One thing I should mention that is that I own a pair of K701's. However, they are not properly amped IMO. They are running off a Sony 700es integrated amp which was handed down from my father. I loved them until i purchased a new pair of speakers and then, sadly, they were usually my backup if i needed to keep the volume down. Never really had the money to get the proper gear until now and i want get myself something that i will be able to live with for a few years without many upgrades.
 
Looked into the LCD-3 and to drive them to their limit it seems i need something like a WA22, Liquid Fire, or a Darkstar. All of which are slightly more then i would like to spend especially since i would still need to buy a DAC. An affordable amp would be the Mjolinr. The thing that i'm still unsure of is when people say that, for example, the Liquid Fire is on a whole different level then the Mjolinr and works wonders with the LCD-3's. How big of a difference are we talking here? Would this be a small increase or would it put the Liquid Fire on a whole different level then the Mjolinr?
[size=1.7em]
Which brings me to another question. If I purchased the LCD-3 and the Liquid fire, what would be the minimum requirement for a DAC? Also, what's the benefit of a 400$ DAC compared to a 1000$ one? Would their be a noticeable difference in sound quality?[/size]

 

[Appless]

In regards to going to one of the meet ups, i live in Nova Scotia so there really is no way for me to get to one.

Also kinda sucks that we have almost no HiFi audio stores here so there isn't anyway to demo any gear ether 

.

 

[Timestretch]

I suggest an Audeze LCD3 and a Benchmark DAC1. Get a discrete amp later down the road if you even feel you need it. The headphone outs on $1000+ DACs are actually pretty respectable, although they are generally extremely neutral and lack character. Then again, perhaps neutral amplification is what will (for you, depending on your preferences) really let a headphone shine with its own character.

 

[Maxvla]

I wouldn't discount the Mjolnir + LCD-3 pairing just because the Mjolnir is cheaper. Take a look at this: LCD-3 Amp thread and the 3 following posts.

I have not heard the Mjolnir + LCD-3, but I have heard the Liquid Fire + LCD-3 and while it was alright, it didn't do anything special for me. It was significantly better on the Darkstar, and I expect I just like these orthos better on solid state so the Mjolnir probably is excellent as well. I had a Mjolnir in competition with my BHA-1 with HD800 as the can to pair with and I chose the BHA-1 for sound, but recognized the excellent value the Mjolnir has. The Bryston BHA-1 is an amp to consider if you are wanting something upscale from the Mjolnir while staying solid state.

I think the Darkstar is overpriced, but that is due to it's expensive casework. It sounds great, but is certainly a luxury item, something you know you are paying too much for, but you want it anyway. If you are on a budget, the Darkstar comes off the list right away.

I've yet to grow my DAC experience much so I can't offer too much advice there, but the Gungnir has bested some DACs in it's price range when compared side by side including the AudioLab M-DAC and PSAudio Nuwave. It seems to be neutral with good detail and speed, it does nothing wrong.

Going to repeat my recommendation because I think it would be hard to beat - Gungnir, Mjolnir, LCD-2. IMO the LCD-3 isn't worth $1000 more than the LCD-2, but it is somewhat better.

 

[davidsh]

Personally, I wouldn't go all out and buy a headphone/amp I have not heard at such a prize.