[franzdom]

I will try both when Bifrost arrives. I have optical out onboard the back of the motherboard, EVGA Z170 Classified K. This should be a fun comparison to the Soundblaster Z card's digital output and processing.

 

[Radical_53]

@RPGWiZaRD  Is what @thuNDa says correct? Was that how your post was meant to be understood? 

I swapped my X-Fi Titanium HD for the ZXR and tested both of them head to head in different games. Positional audio in Black Ops 2 was done exceptionally well with the ZXR (with SBX on, of course).

 

[Evshrug]

I have a question about sbx pro studio.

I have a sound blaster z, HD800, and DAC/AMP. I always gamed at 67% surround, and the sound was very clean and also distinct.

However, I also have an X7 (don't use it on my pc), and in that thread, people recommend to use 100% surround for immersion. I tried this on my Z, and I feel like the sound is mixed together/muddled, lowering the sound quality. At the same time, I feel like its easier to pinpoint a sound. At 67%, I could clearly hear the direction of sound, but pinpointing it is more difficult.

What do you guys have to say about this? What do you use? Also, does the x7 have better sound processing than the sound blaster z for surround? Should I just use that for my pc?

Friend,
I'm a big believer that everybody's ears are different. I've seen the same sequence of a game processed with Dolby Headphone, CMSS-3D, and THX/SBX processing, and I preferred SBX while two friends preferred each of the other options. So, when I got my first Creative DSP (an external Recon3D USB), I played around with every setting and different portions of the slider (the triangle was under 67%, btw). The sense of a rear image actually being behind me got better as the % was raised, and eventually I wanted something that sounded as little like stereo as possible so "I" liked 100%. I've also seen people suggest 67%, 65%, 40%, 33%, 2%... Basically, play, and use whatever floats your boat! Every once in awhile I play at 67% or something, to get an idea of what some people like, but I keep coming back to my preference.

Z vs ZxR vs X7 vs E5/G5/Omni...
As far as I've understood, these all use the same mathematical algorithms for expressing directionality, by calculating time delay and occlusion. What makes them different is what you then do with the resultant 1's and 0's... The X7 has the best implementation of DAC and Amp yet, though the ZxR isn't far behind. Could be that, compared to the more entry level options, the sound output could just be clearer to reveal the subtle cues that trick our brain into hearing directions.

100% surround wouldn't be immersion for me, but confusion.
As a former user from the X-Fi's CMSS-3D, ~30% works best for me:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/623079/creative-sound-blaster-new-series-z-zx-zxr/2520#post_11059980

Yeah, see? Everyone's ear is different and will have their own preference. Yay for adjustability/customization!

:confused_face_2:

This is tricky to encode, but i guess you want to say that the SB-Z cards are bad, because they don't process 5.1 to virtual surround when SBX-Surround is actually OFF.
LOL, how dare you creative...

Yeah, there's a LOT going on with what he said. Statements that each device has different SBX processing as well as being recoignized by the computer differently. Wonder if he would second guess himself if Creative confirmed that the math used for SBX surround was identical? That said, the E5 did indeed used to only accept stereo input over USB, until a firmware update changed that, AND there's something odd about how the G5 surround sounds, which I am still (not actively) researching.

The Z card I used to have (before getting the Omni) did indeed take positional audio and output it in virtual headphone surround. Generally, I find Windows to be a complicated, tempermental, picky cluster-duck and probably the source of a lot of problems... which is why I usually stick to console gaming.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

  @RPGWiZaRD  Is what @thuNDa says correct? Was that how your post was meant to be understood? 

I swapped my X-Fi Titanium HD for the ZXR and tested both of them head to head in different games. Positional audio in Black Ops 2 was done exceptionally well with the ZXR (with SBX on, of course).

 
Yes. I personally didn't like SBX that much because it affects the sound quite a bit, meanwhile 5.1 virtual sound processing doesn't affect the sound quality at all, in fact it just improves upon it due the improved sound staging. This even affects stereo music playback. When the audio signal is processed as a 5.1 channel audio and then downmixed to stereo it sounds slightly different than it does with just stereo<->stereo processing, it makes the music more "around you" than inside your head sounding. Why that is with stereo music, I don't know but I can hear the difference swapping back n forth. I guess it must be the default HRTF setting for 5.1 has the rear channels a bit delayed.
 
On Z series cards you have to use "Headphone" setting in Creative control panel to get any sound output and it doesn't matter what speaker config you set in windows in those cards, the sound doesn't change so therefore the Creative drivers simply are coded so they disregard the Windows speaker setting option and uses just what the Creative panel's own speaker setting uses. The "Headphone" setting sounded too "in my head" for my tastes being used to this 5.1->stereo virtual sound processing from before. With E5/G5/X7 Creative finally changed this. Shame they never released a driver update for Z-series cards adressing this.

 

[franzdom]

I have given up on the Z, optical out from the MB sounds fine through my DAC & amp so...no need for the card that I can see.
 
I really didn't like that when you switch outputs from stereo to headphones it wouldn't work and you usually had to restart your source program.

 

[Radical_53]

@RPGWiZaRD Makes sense. The "headphone" setting seems fine with pair of headphones. I never use any SBX when playing music, and I normally pick the stereo direct mode for my speakers. I'd second that it would be great if they allowed all the options in all the modes though.

 

[wooo headphones]

Thinking about getting the ZxR. I have HE-500 with Project Polaris amp from Garage1217.
 
My main question is what does it mean when the sound card says that it "supports 600 ohm headphones" - does it come with a built in amp? Will that potentially play poorly with my setup? I got the Polaris specifically because the output impedance played well with my headphones. I'm sort of worried that this sound card will mess that up...??
 
Should I just get the Zx? Maybe the ZxR is just overkill anyways?

 

[Stealth3si]

Does the audio sound fine when double amping the Z's headphone out using an external amp (like the O2) with a low impedance headphone (i.e., 25-ohms Denon AH-D7000)?
 
Thx!

 

[DangerClose]

  Thinking about getting the ZxR. I have HE-500 with Project Polaris amp from Garage1217.
 
My main question is what does it mean when the sound card says that it "supports 600 ohm headphones" - does it come with a built in amp? Will that potentially play poorly with my setup? I got the Polaris specifically because the output impedance played well with my headphones. I'm sort of worried that this sound card will mess that up...??
 
Should I just get the Zx? Maybe the ZxR is just overkill anyways?

 
Yes, it has an amp.  ZxR has a much stronger amp than Z and Zx.  Zx is the Z + the desk control attachment.  I was browsing HE-500 posts recently, and I don't think the ZxR was recommended.  That it sounds good, but still holds them back.  It's good power, but apparently the HE-500 needs even more, (needs more current).  That's just from what I recall.  
 
Quote:

  Does the audio sound fine when double amping the Z's headphone out using an external amp (like the O2) with a low impedance headphone (i.e., 25-ohms Denon AH-D7000)?
 

 
Is there a particular reason you want to do that?  You can use Line Out on the Z to bypass the amping.  I don't know if the Line Out can add game processing, but maybe that's why you want to do it.

 

[Stealth3si]

   
Is there a particular reason you want to do that?  You can use Line Out on the Z to bypass the amping.  I don't know if the Line Out can add game processing, but maybe that's why you want to do it.

Yes, for the game processing. The Line Out does not add it AFAIK.

 

[Fegefeuer]

No proper headphone surround on the Line Out for ALL Z cards
 
Only X7, G5 do it. X-Fi cards for CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone Line Out with Xonar cards. 

 

[sexpot]

Hey guys, I have a ZxR and AKG 7XX. What gain setting do I set the ZxR to?
 
Thanks

 

[franzdom]

Does the ZxR have any place in my soundstream with a Schiit Bimby DAC & Asgard HP amp? 

 

[thuNDa]

  Does the ZxR have any place in my soundstream with a DAC & HP amp? 

If you want the effects like virtual surround, and your DAC has optical-in, then it might have a place.
But then one could also take the cheaper basic Z(non-xR), which will provide the same functionality when it comes to optical out.

 

[Stealth3si]

  Does the audio sound fine when double amping the Z's headphone out using an external amp (like the O2) with a low impedance headphone (i.e., 25-ohms Denon AH-D7000)?
 
Thx!

To update my situation, I bought the Z card and double amped it np, just need to lower windows volume to 60%. I kept the O2 amp volume knob around 50%. otherwise ok!