[Von Soundcard]

I am at doubt as to what pc sound card to buy for up to 250 Euros. I am considering these two - the EMU 0404 USB and the M-Audio Audiophile Firewire (or USB), both of which are highly regarded. I will use my card mostly for playback, both the digital out and analog line-out for home hi-fi (mostly digital - therefore I would like bit perfect without problems, or catches) and especially the headphone-out with headphones of up to 60 Ohms (like the Senn 595 or the AKG K 240 S / 271 S).
Beside the general advice of what card is best for which task, I am mostly interested in the difference in sound timbre or color between the two - which is warmer, colder, more clinical or musical, lighter or darker - as detailed a description as you can give.
If noone has listened to the two (or even so) I would also be interested in a comparison between the EMU and the M-Audio Revolution.
Thanks for your opinions.

 

[joe_cool]

The M-Audio products you mentioned all use some version of the AKM DAC. As such they have a similar sound signature. I believe the 0404 also uses the AKM DAC, but the 1212m uses a Crystal Semicounductor DAC and has a somewhat different sound signature IMO.

 

[Von Soundcard]

So has anyone heard them both ? Even for a little while

 

[audiofil]

I used to own Audiophile Fw., and I'm presently using EMU 0404USB.
Haven't done a direct comparison because I've bought them a couple of years apart.
The comparisons I could do were with the Audiophile 192 (which sounds a bit better than the FW. version)
The conclusions: EMU is in a class of it's own, the M-Audio simply sounding flatter and less detailed in comparison.
Picking one of these two is actually a no brainer.
Listen for yourself

 

[Von Soundcard]

Thanks very much for the info, unfortunately I can't listen for myself, unless I buy at least one of them by order (without any return policy).
It would be great if you could give a little more details about the differences you noticed between the two (which sounded warmer / colder, softer / more aggresive, darker / lighter etc.) ? Also on what setup / phones you listened to them. I am sure there are a lot of people that are in doubt between the two.

Also, if there are others that own or have compared the two, you are welcome to post here. For now it looks like I'll be ordering the EMU, but I'll wait a few more days for your opinions.

 

[audiofil]

I used to own Senn HD650 when I had Audiophile Fw. and for a very short while AP192.
I replaced them with my present K701 and after half a year I got the HD595 for "domestic" (PC) use.
The AP Fw. stroke me as a bit agressive and cold (not lethal stuff for the HD650's famous veil, but not any good either) and rather thin tonnaly. The music seemed to lack some body and especially involvement.
I remember I got quite excited with the new AP192 (although it had no proper headphone output and needed adapters) because music made a lot more sense. It was better in every way - smoother, more detailed, 3D and any other audiophile attribute you can guess.
Still a bit on the cold and thin side of neutral, though.
With K701 sounded like crap without my Aria. Anybody can guess why.
Driving HD595 it was quite OK and HD650 almost decent.

EMU 0404 USB is a completely different cattle of fish. It can drive decently even K701, much more than it's to be expected from a prosumer soundcard.
And with HD595 I found it to be great match.
Compared to the M-Audio's I'd say that EMU sound much more believable from a musical perspective. You get improvements in every way, especially in dynamics (much better attack), more solid bass, imaging is more focused etc etc
Tonnaly it fares better being more neutral than the Audiophile's - lacks coldness and edginess, and there's a subtle inherent "punchyness" in it's sound.
In conclusion I'd say this:
- it has the best HP amp I've seen so far in a PC soundcard
- music makes a whole lot more sense through EMU than the M-Audios

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiofil /img/forum/go_quote.gif ..........In conclusion I'd say this: - it has the best HP amp I've seen so far in a PC soundcard - music makes a whole lot more sense through EMU than the M-Audios

I have to agree with audiofil, especially the part that I bolded above........I can't believe how much detail I am now hearing on CD's that I bought in the late 1980's that I never realized was there, now listening to them via those CD's FLAC'ed>Foobar 0.8.3>0404USB>maxed PIMETA>HD600's, compared to my Musical Fidelity CD-Pre24 or any previous gear.

I don't get why more of the "mainstream" high end CD players and DAC's haven't gone over to the new AKM chips....as far as I am concerned, having owned gear with Crystal, Burr-Brown, and Wolfson chips, there is simply no comparison.

 

[Von Soundcard]

Thank you very much for your detailed and insightful description, it's what me and I'm guessing a lot of folks out there were curious about.
Grupul iubitorilor de placi de sunet de mare fidelitate te saluta

 

[Icarium]

Yeah I haven't tried the M-audio cards at all though I do have a set of M-audio speakers that I quite like, but... coming from using an Audigy2 Zs the EMU 0404 USB is a phenomenal upgrade. I haven't regetted getting it yet... I almost am tempted to buy another so I don't have to drag my current one back and forth from work.

 

[chong]

A bit OT, but does the 0404 USB sound similar to the 0404 PCI?

I had a 0404 PCI (using AK4395VF), and it sounded cold and fatiguing through my Aego2 speakers.

 

[dizzyorange]

The USB and PCI versions of this card use different DACs and sound different. The typical complaint for the PCI version is that it is bright and perhaps a little harsh.

The USB EMU0404 is perhaps the only product I've never read a negative opinion about, whether it's on this forum or anywhere on the internet (oh and maybe some Singlepower amps). I got it based on a strong recommendation from Sejarzo, a guy who's probably been an audiophile for as long as I've been alive. Even after a month of use, I still get that WOW feeling every time I use it. There may not be a better audio value, period, if you discount the Koss phones.

 

[K2Grey]

I would opine that the reason why no negative opinions have been said of the Emu 0404USB is because it hasn't gotten that much publicity on the Internet. Given a sufficient number of head-fiers purchasing it, negative opinions are inevitable even if the product was sent from heaven.

Having said this, the 0404 USB looks very good and I would have brought it except I think the physical dimensions are too large and I was looking for something smaller and less noticable.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzyorange /img/forum/go_quote.gif The USB and PCI versions of this card use different DACs and sound different. The typical complaint for the PCI version is that it is bright and perhaps a little harsh. The USB EMU0404 is perhaps the only product I've never read a negative opinion about, whether it's on this forum or anywhere on the internet (oh and maybe some Singlepower amps). I got it based on a strong recommendation from Sejarzo, a guy who's probably been an audiophile for as long as I've been alive. Even after a month of use, I still get that WOW feeling every time I use it. There may not be a better audio value, period, if you discount the Koss phones.

Now you make me feel old.

j/k................

 

[Gatticus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzyorange /img/forum/go_quote.gif The USB and PCI versions of this card use different DACs and sound different. The typical complaint for the PCI version is that it is bright and perhaps a little harsh.

This person says USB and PCI have the same DAC. Is he wrong?

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...howtopic=53746
0404 PCI & 0404 USB is using AK4396 DAC.

 

[K2Grey]

I remembered that they didn't have the same DACs... through the power of Google, it seems to me like the 0404 uses AK4395 and the 0404USB uses AK4396, although I can't be sure about that.