[derbigpr]

So, I'm the process of making my 3rd DIY headphone, this time a little more serious. I have an issue with drivers, as I will not use donor drivers from Superlux headphones anymore, instead I will buy new drivers because I want something a bit better.
 
Obviously, first choice is aliexpress, as they have literally thousands of drivers on offer, but which to buy?
 
Some of them have clearly nice build quality with 3-layer membranes, brass ring enclose instead of plastic, and pretty big magnets, and judging by the frequency response measurements that they show, they are quite good.
For example:
 
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/50mm-speaker-unit-headset-unit-earphone-driver/32510002773.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/40mm-speaker-unit-Peptide-film-full-range-earphone/32394760227.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/40mm-speaker-unit-Perfect-sound-quality-Three-diaphragm-unit-40mm-headset-accessories-unit/32278560471.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/40mm-speaker-unit-Frosted-pattern-special-materials-wrinkle-popular-brands/32392873895.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/50MM-unit-speaker-wearing-silk-wool-composite-cone-diaphragm-unit-DIY-headset-accessories/2027311262.html
 
Has anyone tried either of these, or any other drivers from that website?
 
Another choice would obviously be to source drivers from established companies, but for my stage at the moment that would be too expensive.
 
Also, I have VERY, VERY positive experience with Superlux drivers, they have far more potential than the stock headphones allow, so I have no reason to believe any of these more expensive chinese drivers suck, but I'd like to hear from first hand experience. I previously used drivers from Superlux HD681 Evo for my projects, and those drivers sell for 7-8 dollars a pair, but despite that, they allowed me to build a DIY headphone with a 3D printed baffle, M50X pads and a home made wooden earcup (closed) that sound better than DT770's or M50's, and when EQ'd specifically, the meassure (on my primitive measuring rig) to have an almost identical frequency response as my T1's. Obviously doesn't sound as good because there's more distortion, but overall it's a great sound, and totally in level with 200-300 dollar closed back headphones. And this was using the following baffle 3D printed with ABS, a primitive and simple design that took me a 30-40 minutes to put together, but turned out very nice and is very solid, however not much potential for tuning, so I had to drill actual holes in it, which turned out nasty and I threw it away:
 

 
This time I will use a more complex design, either made out of ABS and 3D printed or made out of aluminium/wood:
 
There are older versions of design, newest are slightly changed and improved, 10x10 cm, designed to fit Beyerdynamic velour pads.
 

 
The driver you see inside is just a visual model I created, it's not a real driver, although it could be machined out of aluminium, fitted with a magnet and voice-coil and membrane, it would probably work...sort of.   It's 50 mm.
 
This is how it would look finished, the earcup would be made out of CNC'd wood, probably walnut or oak polished and painted in a matte dark red color, and the back grill would be 3D printed and coated with a rubberized black paint. Obviously inspired by the DT990, and I'd use the DT990 headband on them, but improved in design in my opinion as it will look quite stunning in person once it's finished.
 

 
 
Also I'm the process of negotiating the price for making aluminium baffles,  which is apparently INSANELY expensive if you need to CNC machine it in a 3rd party company, because obviously I don't have a CNC machine, or a 3D printer, so I have to use the service from companies, which is quite an expensive game.  I have plenty of ideas, and other designs in CAD already made and ready for production that I cannot share publicly yet until I start actually get the finished parts and assemble them, because the designs are more unique and less just reworked headphones that already exist, speaking from a design point of view. This would have been much easier if I had my own 3d printer or a CNC carving machine for wood and aluminium, which would allow for a lot of prototyping, but this way, I have to be sure what I want before I actually go out and have the parts manufactured. So obviously I have to decide exactly which driver to use before I can have the parts made. Driver dimensions are one of the things that vary, not all not 40 mm or 50mm drivers are actually the same diameter, it would suck to made a 40mm hole in a part and then find out the driver is 43 mm in diameter. That is one thing, and the other thing is the fact that drivers are tuned to work with specific type of headphone and baffle, so before I choose drivers, I can't know which design of the baffle I'll have made. 
 
This is one of my aluminium baffle designs, of the simplest ones, not even angled, and they would turn out at 48 grams a piece in terms of weight, so quite heavy compared to ABS ones, but incredibly stiff...also...try to guess how much it costs to machine one...let's just say you can buy nice mid-range cans for the same money.
 
 
But I think the finished headphone would look amazing, especially with a wooden ear cup similar that of the old Sony R10 beast, so I might just say screw it and go for it.
 

 
 
 
 
So I guess my two main questions are:
 
1) Which drivers do you guys think would be the best to use from your experience?
 
2) Do you think I should make a headphone that looks like the open back that I posted here or the one more with aluminium and wood that looks like the R10?  The wood/alu one would be drastically more expensive.

 

[Roderick]

Did you decide which drivers to use? I've been thinking about ordering those wool composite drivers from aliexpress...

 

[derbigpr]

Haven't ordered yet, I'll do that after these holidays when I'll have time to play around with it.  I'm actually pretty sure I'll avoid the Chinese ones and just order some original spare drivers, something like AKG K712, HD600/650, Beyerdynamic DT series drivers, I've found some ATH-A900X spares too.  They all run for about 40 dollars per unit. Or I'll go for something cheaper, believe it or not, you can buy Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 (big over ear model) drivers, together with the baffle and the dampening chamber for the driver, for 8 euros a piece. That's 8 euros for the entire part of a 300 euro headphone, it's the entire piece of headphone that produces sound, the entire earcup basically, at least the functional part of it, you don't get the pretty shiny plastics that covers it, but which is irrelevant for the sound. That's directly from Sennheiser of course, not some third party company. Says something about these "fashion" headphones, even the best ones, when drivers for it cost 16 euros, and the headband alone costs 120 euros.
 
Drivers aren't my main problem anymore though, having the plastic, aluminium and wooden parts made is, you see, plugging a USB drive with my finished CAD file into a CNC machine, loading it without doing any actual work, and then standing next to it for 5 minutes while it cuts out a simple design in a piece of 10x10x3 cm walnut, costs 150 euros per piece, plus the actual wood that I have to supply, at least that's what the companies are charging for that horribly difficult job.  *sarcasm off*  
I won't even mention how much it costs to have a small part machined out of aluminium...it's criminally expensive.
 
Making a single unit of a headphone would cost me more than buying a high end headphone from the store.

 

[iddqd23]

as an alternative you might wanna look out for some broken headband Bluedio cans...UFO`S or such...might save some money for the CNC and still have reasonable drivers..

 

[Roderick]

Could you provide me a link for those Momentum drivers? Sounds interesting. There are loads of momentum fakes around that sell for about 10-20euros and supposedly have good build quality. Maybe authentic momentum baffle could be fitted into those...
 
Ko-Star KHM-681
 

 
 
Yeah...There is a lot of air in headphone prices. Mass production can cut down the prices but still. There are some chinese stuff though that doesn't cost that much. While ago I bought MSUR N550 headphones from aliexpress. Cost me 80 euros with free shipping. Fullsize headphones with walnut cups, aluminium hinges and beryllium drivers. Unfortunately one driver was dead on delivery so now I'm waiting for a replacement driver. Gave me a change to look into the driver more closely so thats a plus on this unfortunate situation.
 
I was sceptical about the whole beryllium thing but it appears to be a real thing. They claim that the diaphgram is only 2 microns thick. Something normally seen in expensive orthos or electrostatic headphones. I can confirm that it is a driver unlike I ever seen before. It is indeed REALLY thin...and I've poked around lot of dynamic drivers
 
Anyway if it turns out that they don't sound that good the housing is definately something one could work with...Slap in some high end drivers and you are good to go You could never tell it is some relatively cheap mass production chinese headphone. Feels more luxurius than jvc dx1000(granted, not the most impressive looking wooden headphone around) and it is nothing short of the build quality seen in audio technica woodies.
 
Pictures don't really do it justice. There is no shiny coating on the wood so it looks unfinished but it has been so well sanded that it doesn really need anything else to look good. Msur is not the only brand selling these headphones, but im not sure which others have beryllium drivers. Also there seem to be pad variations with different rebrands...

 

[cgtyguner]

im also looking those aliexpress drivers and try to get some info about them. And this particular seller only shared frequency graphs only andless than half of drivers has detailed info. i also searched for another sellers but none of those are satisfying. One of them is said that product is factory made. really? And this seller has a driver labeled as "gardo" i think its for grado Anyway, is there anyone tried this sellers drivers? Or any idea about where/how to buy original replacement drivers instead?

 

[7keys]

The Senn PX100ii is a great driver to mod. there are a few members that make the odd wood cup that would charge a lot cheaper than what your looking at.
Check out the non grado driver thread
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/690682/the-non-grado-driver-grado-thread

 

[derbigpr]

You can get any driver from pretty much any headphone from the original manufacturer. Go to your countries website and look for spare parts. There's no point in using low quality drivers such as the ones in  PX100 when you can get Momentum II drivers for 8 euros a piece. Then there's the HD25, HD280, HD380, HD5x8 series, HD6x0 series, HD700 and HD800, all available. Same goes for AKG, Beyerdynamic, Sony, Audio Technica drivers, etc. Using cheap headphones and then putting better drivers inside is pointless.  From my trial and error and I found that the sound you'll get almost depends more on the baffle than the driver itself. It's kinda like using a really good speaker driver but putting in into a cardboard box. It won't sound good. If you make a DIY headphone, the only way to do it is to use OEM drivers and then build the rest of the headphone around it. The problem is, and that is a big one that NOBODY quite understands until they try to do it, I didn't either, is that even making just one headphone, without having an exact idea of how it's gonna perform, is going to cost you more money than buying a brand new high end headphone that's already on the market. Chances for getting your DIY headphone to sound as good as a real high end headphone are very low. That's why headphone DIY is essentially a waste of time unless you're ready to do it seriously. It's much, much, much more complex than making a DIY speaker for example.

 

[derbigpr]

im also looking those aliexpress drivers and try to get some info about them. And this particular seller only shared frequency graphs only andless than half of drivers has detailed info. i also searched for another sellers but none of those are satisfying. One of them is said that product is factory made.

really? And this seller has a driver labeled as "gardo"

i think its for grado Anyway, is there anyone tried this sellers drivers? Or any idea about where/how to buy original replacement drivers instead?

 
Send an e-mail to the manufacturer through their website and ask them for spare parts, it's as simple as that, how else do you think you'll get them.
 
Some have websites, for example: http://headphonespares.sennheiser.co.uk/

 

[7keys]

  There's no point in using low quality drivers such as the ones in  PX100 when you can get Momentum II drivers for 8 euros a piece. 

This is absolutely not true, you're just talking out of your hat, you obviously don't have any experience with the Px100ii driver.
 
We've been testing drivers for a couple of years in the non grado driver thread and the PX100ii driver in a tone-wood cup turned out to be the cream of the crop.
 
 
Take a look.
 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728069/woodied-sennheiser-aka-senngrado-tour-thread

 

[cgtyguner]

 
Send an e-mail to the manufacturer through their website and ask them for spare parts, it's as simple as that, how else do you think you'll get them.

Some have websites, for example: http://headphonespares.sennheiser.co.uk/

Yeah you're right but official sites are not selling replacement driver for all models, for example sennheiser not selling px100 drivers. Also if you're living in neither us nor eu, things become harder. Shipment costs, finding pairs etc...

 

[MuZo2]

  So I guess my two main questions are:
 
1) Which drivers do you guys think would be the best to use from your experience?
 
2) Do you think I should make a headphone that looks like the open back that I posted here or the one more with aluminium and wood that looks like the R10?  The wood/alu one would be drastically more expensive.

Closed back are big challenge , something similar to R10 will be cool.

 

[derbigpr]

  This is absolutely not true, you're just talking out of your hat, you obviously don't have any experience with the Px100ii driver.
 
We've been testing drivers for a couple of years in the non grado driver thread and the PX100ii driver in a tone-wood cup turned out to be the cream of the crop.
 
 
Take a look.
 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728069/woodied-sennheiser-aka-senngrado-tour-thread

 
 
Well I'm not saying the PX100 driver is bad, but it's still one of the most low end drivers Sennheiser makes, that's a fact. If the sound of the modded headphone turns out to be that good with a low end driver like the one from the PX100, then imagine how good it might be with a higher end driver, that's what I meant. For example, for 8 dollars you can get a driver that Sennheiser puts inside their 300-400 dollar headphones. 
 
And btw, those PX100 drivers are actually not made for those headphones specifically, it's a standard Sennheiser 32 mm diameter driver that they put in many headphones, anything ranging from PX100's to stuff like HD380Pro, including the HD438's that I had, the only thing they change is the plastic baffle on the back of the driver, for open back headphones the use the type with small holes, like on the PX100, and for closed back ones they use the bigger vents in the rear, the diaphragm/membrane, voice coil, magnet and the PCB are identical. This is the driver from my old ruined HD438's:
 

 
 
 
 
But I gave up on big name drivers anyway, they're just not worth the money over the stuff from China for making diy headphones. I already said, I got my modded 3D printed headphone to sound as good any open backed headphone in the HD600/650 range, and almost as good as my Beyerdynamic T1 with a little bit of EQ'ing, and that was using a driver from a Superlux headphone, that probably doesn't cost more than 5 dollars/piece. The more I mod headphones and play around with drivers, the more it seems to me like the big manufacturers are ripping us off when it comes to drivers. There is NOTHING about the audio performance, and I repeat, NOTHING about the driver of the, for example, the DT770Pro that makes it worth 45 dollars/piece when the Superlux driver costs 1/10th of that price and performs better. It actually plays at a significantly louder volume with lower distortion  all over the board and has a flatter, smoother frequency response when measured as a raw driver, and it's also affected by the earcup tuning far less. Just plugging a 2 mm diameter hole on the earcup of the DT770 totally cuts off  the bass, that's how sensitive the driver is, whereas the Superlux 50mm driver pretty much plays it's own tune regardless of where it's at, and the vent tuning on the back is the only thing that really affects it, plugging the hole cuts off the mid bass and adds mids. Putting felt in front of the driver dampens the highs. That's as simple as it is when it comes to tuning the sound, and playing with those two you can make it almost flat from 50hz to around 4000hz, with a little bit of peaks and dips above that obviously . Now, it's questionable how long that Superlux driver will last compared to the Beyer driver, but that's something we can't really find out now.
 
The thing is, those drivers are placed inside cheaply made headphones, with thin baffles and cups that are nowhere near rigid enough and have poor acoustics all over the board when it  comes to parts that are around the driver, and that doesn't allow the driver to shine.

 

[derbigpr]

Yeah you're right but official sites are not selling replacement driver for all models, for example sennheiser not selling px100 drivers. Also if you're living in neither us nor eu, things become harder. Shipment costs, finding pairs etc...

 
 
Try sending emails to  costumer service if you can't find parts on their websites. Or even contact manufacturer importers for your country, and ask them. Trust me, they can get you ANY part of ANY headphone you want if you'll pay for it. If you can buy drivers for stuff like HD800, then you should have no problems getting the PX100 drivers.  If all else fails, just buy the PX100 headphones and take the drivers out.

 

[Alarick]

Interesting thread!

By curiosity I used drivers from a couple of pirate beats solo and they were sounding just as well as the original beats. No measurements were made though.
I guess that your PX100 is good enough to beat the beats but haven't checked it out yet.

There's probably not so much difference between modern drivers as between modern and common middleclass oldschool drivers, but that's something to start investigating.