[DaveStarWalker]

In this case, I certainly won't spend $300 + shipping if the upgrade doesn't provide any benefits for better sound.

Luxury world.

It does not shock me, because it is also an essential part of the product, understood as a whole.
But yes, only a cosmetic question as far as I know

 

[DaveStarWalker]

Simple, because an "upgrade" as you call it... is nothing more than building a new cable... so they try to discourage you... in one case they earn 3k (with some material) in the other 300 (with the same time)... it's obvious that they try to discourage... already so they can hardly keep up with the "normal" orders they receive. I would never upgrade it... especially if it's a cable that works perfectly... sometimes you go to improve and instead...

I don't know if "they discourage", but you have to take into account :

- Shipping and risk (lost package : insurance)
- Cost of the new hardware
- Labor and time spent for disassembly and reassembly the cable (time is money)
- Quality check : time (the same)
- Shipping and inner risk (lost package : insurance) for the return of the modified product.

I specify that I have absolutely no acquaintance with Effect Audio, or something. Just I try to be factual.

 

[phiemon]

Simple, because an "upgrade" as you call it... is nothing more than building a new cable... so they try to discourage you... in one case they earn 3k (with some material) in the other 300 (with the same time)... it's obvious that they try to discourage... already so they can hardly keep up with the "normal" orders they receive. I would never upgrade it... especially if it's a cable that works perfectly... sometimes you go to improve and instead...

I don't know if "they discourage", but you have to take into account :

- Shipping and risk (lost package : insurance)
- Cost of the new hardware
- Labor and time spent for disassembly and reassembly the cable (time is money)
- Quality check : time (the same)
- Shipping and inner risk (lost package : insurance) for the return of the modified product.

I specify that I have absolutely no acquaintance with Effect Audio, or something. Just I try to be factual.

I can understand such an effort on Effect Audio, I really do. This reflects nothing other than the mindset of a capitalist company oriented to profit (see Aroma Audio, which sells Jewel for +5100 USD with an extremely cheap and bad sounding cable; by the way here is another company I boycott for this reason) and this is nothing new in view of contemporary attitudes of our society. Also what you write reflects such a mindset (this is not meant critically, please). From this perspective there is nothing wrong, nothing unusual. However, for me personally, this does not go together with customer retention, both collide with each other. It is basically a kind of business here in the audio cable world, which certainly belongs to the niche. Let's be honest: how many of us are willing to pay 3000 USD for just an audio cable that allows at most (!) 5%-10% improvement? Certainly not many. In this respect, I dare to doubt that Effect Audio can really afford to treat in a such way loyal and so far satisfied customers, who gladly buy Flagship's products like Chiron for 3000 USD. It's a matter of principle, of ethical behavior, that is, what can be right in this case from the perspective of the customer (and of course not from the perspective of the company which is mainly focused on earning as much money as possible). With a cheap product I can understand that (much) money is demanded, but again, not with a Flagship audio cable that is worth 3000 USD.

 

[DaveStarWalker]

There is a simple and elegant solution :
Do not pay 3000 dollars (or more) for... a single cable

If so, and if you're charged of 300 dollars to make a cosmetic modification (not to say "upgrade"), it is the cost of luxury, exclusivity, etc.

The same with Aston Martin : motor revision, ajustement... 12000 bucks.... It is advisable to do this every 2 years.

I know it's hard to read, believe me, but we're talking about "business" here, much more than "ethics". Or otherwise of "commercial gesture".

And if we open this "ethics" box... I think we can stop buying 99% of manufactured objects.
I'm playing devil's advocate.

 

[phiemon]

There is a simple and elegant solution :
Do not pay 3000 dollars (or more) for... a single cable

If so, and if you're charged of 300 dollars to make a cosmetic modification (not to say "upgrade"), it is the cost of luxury, exclusivity, etc.

The same with Aston Martin : motor revision, ajustement... 12000 bucks.... It is advisable to do this every 2 years.

I know it's hard to read, believe me, but we're talking about "business" here, much more than "ethics". Or otherwise of "commercial gesture".

And if we open this "ethics" box... I think we can stop buying 99% of manufactured objects.
I'm playing devil's advocate.

Even the business world has to adhere to certain moral rules of conduct if it wants to be competitive and successful. Otherwise, it risks failure. Of course, I can understand that an "upgrade" - sorry but I must use this word as Effect Audio does - involves cost and effort. Let's try to stay factual please: how much material cost does this upgrade imply for Effect Audio? Processing costs and effort do not count for me because they certainly have employees who do their job anyway. Therefore, 300 USD for such an "upgrade" and then to limit this only for purchases from April 1st, I think is simply "(ethically) unfair" – not to use another very negative expression.

The fact is, Effect Audio has with this "business model" already lost at least two customers who bought their flagship product for 3000 USD MSRP.

 

[Polky74]

I can understand such an effort on Effect Audio, I really do. This reflects nothing other than the mindset of a capitalist company oriented to profit (see Aroma Audio, which sells Jewel for +5100 USD with an extremely cheap and bad sounding cable; by the way here is another company I boycott for this reason) and this is nothing new in view of contemporary attitudes of our society. Also what you write reflects such a mindset (this is not meant critically, please). From this perspective there is nothing wrong, nothing unusual. However, for me personally, this does not go together with customer retention, both collide with each other. It is basically a kind of business here in the audio cable world, which certainly belongs to the niche. Let's be honest: how many of us are willing to pay 3000 USD for just an audio cable that allows at most (!) 5%-10% improvement? Certainly not many. In this respect, I dare to doubt that Effect Audio can really afford to treat in a such way loyal and so far satisfied customers, who gladly buy Flagship's products like Chiron for 3000 USD. It's a matter of principle, of ethical behavior, that is, what can be right in this case from the perspective of the customer (and of course not from the perspective of the company which is mainly focused on earning as much money as possible). With a cheap product I can understand that (much) money is demanded, but again, not with a Flagship audio cable that is worth 3000 USD.

I respect what you wrote, but I do not agree with the substance and I explain why with two considerations.
The first: does anyone like the old design more than the new? For example I prefer the old... more serious and less tacky... when I use a 3k cable you don't have to "see" that I spent 3k and if they sound the same then I really prefer the old all my life.
The second: as far as the Jewels are concerned, I'm delighted to have bought them at 5k and not at 7k like the Trailli only because they decided for me which cable to listen to them with. In fact, with the money saved, I took advantage of the Musicteck offer and bought them with a better cable than the one offered by the Trailli, paying much less for everything. Or maybe you thought that the price of the cable was not included in the 7k of the Trailli?

 

[phiemon]

I respect what you wrote, but I do not agree with the substance and I explain why with two considerations.
The first: does anyone like the old design more than the new? For example I prefer the old... more serious and less tacky... when I use a 3k cable you don't have to "see" that I spent 3k and if they sound the same then I really prefer the old all my life.
The second: as far as the Jewels are concerned, I'm delighted to have bought them at 5k and not at 7k like the Trailli only because they decided for me which cable to listen to them with. In fact, with the money saved, I took advantage of the Musicteck offer and bought them with a better cable than the one offered by the Trailli, paying much less for everything. Or maybe you thought that the price of the cable was not included in the 7k of the Trailli?

Anyway, I wrote what I think and I don't like to repeat myself. Now Effect Audio can make of it what it wants.

About the Jewel you may be right; but that's another topic ...

 

[DaveStarWalker]

Even the business world has to adhere to certain moral rules of conduct if it wants to be competitive and successful. Otherwise, it risks failure. Of course, I can understand that an "upgrade" - sorry but I must use this word as Effect Audio does - involves cost and effort. Let's try to stay factual please: how much material cost does this upgrade imply for Effect Audio? Processing costs and effort do not count for me because they certainly have employees who do their job anyway. Therefore, 300 USD for such an "upgrade" and then to limit this only for purchases from April 1st, I think is simply "(ethically) unfair" – not to use another very negative expression.

The fact is, Effect Audio has with this "business model" already lost at least two customers who bought their flagship product for 3000 USD MSRP.

Indeed,

But we are dealing in here with an epiphenomenon

 

[skootb]

I posted a while back here, but now it's been confirmed:

My Leonidas 2 cable started having dropouts on 1 channel back in January. Seemed like a loose connector. I emailed Effect Audio and they said to send it back to Singapore for repair. They also asked if I could declare the value at $150 or less so they didn't get hit with a high customs fee.

I paid $888 for the cable. I could have insured it for the full amount for $8 more, but I insured it at the lower amount because Effect Audio asked for that favor.

The cable never made it to them, and the package was officially declared lost by the carrier 2 days ago (after 5 months!).

Effect Audio has offered me a refurb Leonidas 2 for $599.

I'm not crazy for being a little upset about this, right? I could have paid an easy $8 to insure my package for the full amount, but EA asked me not to in order to help them out. So I did them a favor, and now I'm the one who's screwed.

I understand that I still chose to insure it for the lower amount, and that it's not EA's fault that the package got lost. And I'm not quite sure what would be a better solution to this situation. So while I understand that, I'm still the one losing out, and feel like it's sort of their fault in telling me not to insure it for the full amount.

Am I crazy? I'm not sure what to do. The idea of paying $599 for another cable is something I don't think I can swallow...

 

[Shawnb]

I posted a while back here, but now it's been confirmed:

My Leonidas 2 cable started having dropouts on 1 channel back in January. Seemed like a loose connector. I emailed Effect Audio and they said to send it back to Singapore for repair. They also asked if I could declare the value at $150 or less so they didn't get hit with a high customs fee.

I paid $888 for the cable. I could have insured it for the full amount for $8 more, but I insured it at the lower amount because Effect Audio asked for that favor.

The cable never made it to them, and the package was officially declared lost by the carrier 2 days ago (after 5 months!).

Effect Audio has offered me a refurb Leonidas 2 for $599.

I'm not crazy for being a little upset about this, right? I could have paid an easy $8 to insure my package for the full amount, but EA asked me not to in order to help them out. So I did them a favor, and now I'm the one who's screwed.

I understand that I still chose to insure it for the lower amount, and that it's not EA's fault that the package got lost. And I'm not quite sure what would be a better solution to this situation. So while I understand that, I'm still the one losing out, and feel like it's sort of their fault in telling me not to insure it for the full amount.

Am I crazy? I'm not sure what to do. The idea of paying $599 for another cable is something I don't think I can swallow...

EA should be on the hook for the whole thing. They made the request due to stupid tax laws, it's return for repair shouldn't be taxed at all, so they should cover all replacement costs. That means replacing it, with either a new cable if they still make it, refurb if they have any or offer a replacement that is in the same tier as the Leo 2.

In no way should you have to pay anything for it to be replaced, that is just wrong on so many levels. I really thought they were better then this but they clearly aren't.

 

[justanut]

EA should be on the hook for the whole thing. They made the request due to stupid tax laws, it's return for repair shouldn't be taxed at all, so they should cover all replacement costs. That means replacing it, with either a new cable if they still make it, refurb if they have any or offer a replacement that is in the same tier as the Leo 2.

In no way should you have to pay anything for it to be replaced, that is just wrong on so many levels. I really thought they were better then this but they clearly aren't.

Well, if you were EA, not having received the purported returned item, would you really honour each and every such claim? I find it incredible from a business perspective. Pretty sure Singapore doesn't charge tax on returned goods, especially to a registered company.

Anyway, back to cables. Received and am WOWed by the Code 23 cables. Immediately could tell a difference even with my Mest 2. Unfortunately, they are a little too heavy for the Acoustune Sho which i bought them for... The Mest 2 Custom holds it in my ears. For a non-believer in kilo-buck cables, i'm really impressed and worried about this new rabbit hole I've found...

 

[stacey]

I posted a while back here, but now it's been confirmed:

My Leonidas 2 cable started having dropouts on 1 channel back in January. Seemed like a loose connector. I emailed Effect Audio and they said to send it back to Singapore for repair. They also asked if I could declare the value at $150 or less so they didn't get hit with a high customs fee.

I paid $888 for the cable. I could have insured it for the full amount for $8 more, but I insured it at the lower amount because Effect Audio asked for that favor.

The cable never made it to them, and the package was officially declared lost by the carrier 2 days ago (after 5 months!).

Effect Audio has offered me a refurb Leonidas 2 for $599.

I'm not crazy for being a little upset about this, right? I could have paid an easy $8 to insure my package for the full amount, but EA asked me not to in order to help them out. So I did them a favor, and now I'm the one who's screwed.

I understand that I still chose to insure it for the lower amount, and that it's not EA's fault that the package got lost. And I'm not quite sure what would be a better solution to this situation. So while I understand that, I'm still the one losing out, and feel like it's sort of their fault in telling me not to insure it for the full amount.

Am I crazy? I'm not sure what to do. The idea of paying $599 for another cable is something I don't think I can swallow...

There sure is a lot of grift in the high end audio scene…..

 

[Shawnb]

Well, if you were EA, not having received the purported returned item, would you really honour each and every such claim? I find it incredible from a business perspective. Pretty sure Singapore doesn't charge tax on returned goods, especially to a registered company.

EA requests that you declare the value below $150 to avoid customs. I have no clue what that means but that's what they request, so because of that yes I expect EA to honor such claims, they likely don't get many of them so they should cover any issues. Otherwise I can easily see them adding any custom charges onto us.

If I was a company that asked it's customers to commit possible tax fraud I'd cover any insurance loses because of that request.

 

[s2kphile]

I came here after reading the watercooler thread. And the way I'm reading this is its bad business to not take care of your customers especially ones of higher tier status.

I recommend go else where since I've seen similar cables are built in the same Chinese factories that many ChiFi companies use just using their own specs.

Though I have to say for their Eros S the tight tolerances of the inductor & capacitance wire is great! But is it worth their premium price? Depends, but for majority of users, no.

 

[skootb]

EA requests that you declare the value below $150 to avoid customs. I have no clue what that means but that's what they request, so because of that yes I expect EA to honor such claims, they likely don't get many of them so they should cover any issues. Otherwise I can easily see them adding any custom charges onto us.

That's the thing. I know they didn't lose it, but I would have gladly paid extra to insure it for more and maybe even covered customs charges. But since they asked me not to, and now I'm the one losing out, it doesn't seem fair to me. But I'm not sure what the remedy is (or how often this sort of thing happens)