[vikinguy]

Owner and lover of AP here.

VE just released a new flagship at $3k.

just sayin'

Those Germans aren’t as into R&D.

Neither FreqShift nor that cable are new. They already R&D'd it with the Amber Pearl and the Halo Red FE. The final iteration of the R&D leaving everyone holding the bag is the "BC-Turbo Micro Voltage Booster"

They partner with PW to provide 500-1000$ stock cables that aren't worth 80$. Throwing a colored cloth sleeve on it and calling it an exclusive partnership is a real slap in the face. The only thing PW does right is their ear-hooks in a world of intelligence insulting cable cash grabs with more ChatGPT flowery prose than sense. They aren't the only ones guilty to be sure.

This post is so cathartic. Well done sir. The cable thing…whew.

 

[nioh]

Sorry guys, but whatever is the technology inside, for me there nothing to explain this price except greed!

+ people willing to pay anything. There are many on Head-Fi.
In a few years, they'll release another flagship IEM for $16k and this will be the budget version.

 

[Frankie D]

First of all, I would like to apologize for not explaining the development history and design philosophy of UM's dual flagships to everyone. Here is a recently compiled list of the updates to Mason and Mentor over the years, which I hope will better illustrate how UM's dual flagship products have evolved over the years. Because AP was a product developed by UM in cooperation with Cayin and sold exclusively by Cayin, it was not included in the UM product yearbook.



The Mason series has always been UM's Statement product, and the design and development process is to spare no expense, to concentrate the best resources we can call on. For each generation of Mason, we equip him with the latest technology, introduce the best cables we can mix and match, use the most advanced shell processing technology, and cooperate with newly designed top accessories. Therefore, the original intention of Mason's development is not to find market demand and develop products accordingly, but to challenge the ceiling of IEMs performance, technology, and creativity. Mason is not a simple IEM, but a reference-grade listening solution in our current understanding.

The Mentor series was originally positioned as a secondary flagship with reduced techs from Mason, and we have continued for 4 generations. But with the fifth generation MM, we changed our thinking. The development of MM was first guided by the market. We extracted the listening preferences of audiophiles from global media and forums and conducted quantitative summaries. Based on the listening preferences of the general public, combined with the framework structure of the flagship series with BA driver as the main body, MM was developed. This is also why the first four generations of Mason and Mentor were released simultaneously, while the fifth generation Mentor was released nearly two years later than Mason.

Compared with Mason, we did not give Mentor the top cable, we controlled the price and also gave audiophiles more space to match the cables by themselves. It has been proven that even though the MM and FS look similar, the sound is completely different. One thing is certain: the draft of the next generation of Mentor has not been drawn yet, and it will not be a simple Mason-reduced work. I am also looking forward to the new Mentor, but let me first recover from the stunning experience brought to me by Mason NE/ST.

The sound performance of the new Mason is still worth a try. I was shocked beyond words when I listened to the prototype when I visited the UM headquarters in December. I understand that not every audiophile is willing to pay a high price to own it, but I think it would be a pity if an audiophile missed the opportunity to listen to the new Mason. It is very special. Canjam NYC is coming soon, and I will be waiting for everyone there with the new Mason.

P.S. Now UM's technical department director Sam is by my side. I accompanied him to the Shot Show with UM's hearing protection sister company. He is one of the creators of BC-Turbo. If you have any questions, I can answer them on the spot.

A question. If the Mason is UM’s statement product, what is the Amber Pearl? I am asking to further understand UM’s products and where they fit. Tks.

 

[Mython]

the issue here is that rolex/lv bag/ jewelry can last decades and they are accessories that can't get outdated.
iems on the other side are consumer electronics. In 3-5 years time, chifi will produce a 1k IEM that will outperform these.

Quality isn't always easy to drive down on price, but mass-production techniques and technology-trickle-down is advancing at an amazing pace these days.

I'm speaking of consumer electronics and technology in general, but, within the microcosm of personal audio, DAPs have massively improved in terms of performance vs cost, during the past 15 years. It used to be slim pickings for audiophiles when the iPod hit the audio market and so few hi-fi companies could bring any worthwhile audio improvement to a DAP (remember, this was before Android was viable to run on the sort of hardware back then, that lacked fancy touchscreens). Now, you can get awesome performance for under a thousand bucks, and very very decent performance for $500-$600.

Amazing what you can buy for just 15 bucks now, in the world of IEMs (e.g. www.head-fi.org/threads/kz-official-thread.971463/#post-17933244)

Is there really such a vast amount of R&D and innovation in some upgrades to BCD technology, to justify charging literally DOUBLE the already-exhorbitant pricing of competitors' IEMs/CIEMs?

I find myself agreeing with many of the sentiments already expressed in this thread - UM's pricetag of $8500 does come across as nakedly greedy, even allowing some latitude for the recoupment of R&D costs. It doesn't seem legitimately proportionate. Reeks of pushing the price-envelope in an attempt to chase the luxury goods market, for those with enough disposable income to not care if they're being gouged. I wouldn't wish to see the IEM/CIEM market go in this direction, but it's been going this way for quite some time now, what with flagships topping $3000, then $3,500, $3995.....

Makes my old UM Miracles seem like a (relative) bargain - I think I paid about $1000 for them, back in the day, and they were one of the best CIEMs UM had to offer, at the time.

Reminds me of A&K (for those of you who have been around long enough to remember their marketing behaviour during the lifespan of the company), but somehow UM are seemingly being even greedier than them, which is quite an accomplishment.

"A Fool and his/her cash are easily parted"

 

[DrewVz]

Neither FreqShift nor that cable are new. They already R&D'd it with the Amber Pearl and the Halo Red FE. The final iteration of the R&D leaving everyone holding the bag is the "BC-Turbo Micro Voltage Booster"

They partner with PW to provide 500-1000$ stock cables that aren't worth 80$. Throwing a colored cloth sleeve on it and calling it an exclusive partnership is a real slap in the face. The only thing PW does right is their ear-hooks in a world of intelligence insulting cable cash grabs with more ChatGPT flowery prose than sense. They aren't the only ones guilty to be sure.

Savage. Definitely hard to get your money's worth in this game. It can be done, certainly. But I suspect looking to UM and PW for the answers won't get you there, as you obviously have figured out.

Clearly, this release is aimed at the "more money than brains" crowd. Nothing wrong with that, it can be very lucrative, especially in today's era of overpriced everything. Because.... "inflation". Them's the breaks.

 

[BlueA]

recoupment of R&D costs

xMems is a whole tech from scratch, much more complex to develop than a vibration engine
and they are available not for 8500$ but 159$. You cannot hide company intentions behind R&D costs.

 

[UniqueMelody]

A question. If the Mason is UM’s statement product, what is the Amber Pearl? I am asking to further understand UM’s products and where they fit. Tks.

This is also something I want to make it clear. Amber Pearl is a collaboration IEM we tuned together with Cayin. We set the baseline and Cayin refined the AP to the sound they want. We are very prouded of being part of Cayin 30th Anniversary and accomplished this project with them. Amber Pearl won't exit if without Cayin or us. So we couldn't have it in our major product line and count it as a product solely from UM. Cayin is also kindly keeping our name on AP as a recognition to our efforts.

Meanwhile, Amber Pearl is a combo system, not separated DAP and IEMs. Both Cayin and us believe they sound the best staying together. However, tuning preference is subjective, some dealers asked Cayin if they can be sold separately. Only limited dealers got the permission, we then send the separate package of AP to those dealers upon requests. In majority part of the world, they are sold as a combo.

 

[hbcke]

Quality isn't always easy to drive down on price, but mass-production techniques and technology-trickle-down is advancing at an amazing pace these days.

I'm speaking of consumer electronics and technology in general, but, within the microcosm of personal audio, DAPs have massively improved in terms of performance vs cost, during the past 15 years. It used to be slim pickings for audiophiles when the iPod hit the audio market and so few hi-fi companies could bring any worthwhile audio improvement to a DAP (remember, this was before Android was viable to run on the sort of hardware back then, that lacked fancy touchscreens). Now, you can get awesome performance for under a thousand bucks, and very very decent performance for $500-$600.

Amazing what you can buy for just 15 bucks now, in the world of IEMs (e.g. www.head-fi.org/threads/kz-official-thread.971463/#post-17933244)

Is there really such a vast amount of R&D and innovation in some upgrades to BCD technology, to justify charging literally DOUBLE the already-exhorbitant pricing of competitors' IEMs/CIEMs?

I find myself agreeing with many of the sentiments already expressed in this thread - UM's pricetag of $8500 does come across as nakedly greedy, even allowing some latitude for the recoupment of R&D costs. It doesn't seem legitimately proportionate. Reeks of pushing the price-envelope in an attempt to chase the luxury goods market, for those with enough disposable income to not care if they're being gouged. I wouldn't wish to see the IEM/CIEM market go in this direction, but it's been going this way for quite some time now, what with flagships topping $3000, then $3,500, $3995.....

Makes my old UM Miracles seem like a (relative) bargain - I think I paid about $1000 for them, back in the day, and they were one of the best CIEMs UM had to offer, at the time.

Reminds me of A&K (for those of you who have been around long enough to remember their marketing behaviour during the lifespan of the company), but somehow UM are seemingly being even greedier than them, which is quite an accomplishment.

"A Fool and his/her cash are easily parted"

I definitely agree back in the days there was ibasso dx100,hifiman hm801,tera altmann,iriver products,fiio x3,sandisk products. Back in the days marketing is not that effective if you really want to succeed you must do better at product quality.After success of ibasso dx100, iriver see oppurtunity and become Astell and Kern and make products essentially uses same body. They are putting same body to every product line like iphone producing iphone 6s 7 and 8 as a se edition. Nowadays Unique Melody puts 13 balanced armature and some dynamic drivers maybe add some bone conducting maybe add some electrostatic drivers maybe add amt drivers maybe add planar drivers.

You know chinese companies,american knowles company and Sonion makes good quality armature drivers and electrostatic drivers.Someone who feel robbed by companies can try to build a 13 balanced armature setup with most expensive stuff in their armature drivers and see how it sounds?
I am doing you a favor guys you don't need this guys to tell you what to do with your money.

They are not building a cable for it already. You can built yourself a in ear monitor as you wish and dıy according cable which fits to your iem most.

Of course in terms of design you need to consider size and other stuff but you can dıy according to your likes and dislikes.
If you are using balanced armatures you need to know how to do multiple crossovers and stuffs.

 

[vikinguy]

I’m going to AB the new UM at $8,500 against VEX at $3,000.

I’ll report my findings.

 

[FPFi]

Problems with the price of UM iem’s? Or any high end (er, ultra high end) iem’s? Well, that is what this game has become. If someone is willing to pay then they will make them.

Don’t just blame the company for making more and better stuff and charging crazy prices. Someone is buying them. Iem users want the best sound, whatever that means. I have some expensive ones and some less expensive ones. Less expensive sounds great, more expensive typically sounds great-er. Worth the difference? Probably not.

If you don’t like it, find your price point and settle in. You still get great sound and, after all, it is about the music, isn’t it? I have the Multiverse Mentor and don’t think I will venture above that but knows. Foolish is as foolish does.

Incidentally, I believe every hobby or sport has the same pricing structure issue. As long as you have the cash, there is always something better than what you already have. For example, the cost of a high end hi-fi equipment, and all the accessories available, is absolutely insane.

 

[hbcke]

Good luck with uniqueness then "Unique Melody" more like "Uniick Melody" for me

It is a unique melody that your ear hears but changes the uniqueness now and then according the newer TOTL ones.

I do not know french could someone translate to me what is the next products name? Do someone have any guesses about it? I am not that cultured sorry. I am just an illiterate person.

 

[BlueA]

@hbcke First it has to be said that the name Soleil Tombé is a translation error.
Yes they asked 8500 an can not translate correctly.
So the name they choose translate to fallen sun which mean nothing.
They probably would say Setting sun aka Couché de soleil.
Nothing cry low status more than this... it's at the level of a grammar error tatoo...

 

[hbcke]

You know what is funny that if European people earn much more german company you talk about comparison make their iems much more expensive.
Maybe it is demand and supply or just demand in this case.
@BlueA thanks for illuminating us with your knowledge.

 

[BlueA]

At this level it's all about status. Watches, clothes, car, camera you name it. But there's one and only condition:
When you display what you buy people recognize the level of accomplishement.
If I seat to a poker table and I see you wearing some specific brand I get the message,
If I see you with an UM product with an error in the name and such bad color it's the reverse status treatment...
Look at what Noble can accomplish with a piece of wood, this is status.
Compare with the artistic level of Fallen Sun it cry copy cat and bad taste, they understand nothing about beauty,
you get a multiplicator of low status if people hear the price you paid for such esthetic failure.

 

[phiemon]

If I had a company that I love and whose products I could be proud of, it would make me deeply sad and I would be deeply ashamed if loyal customers talked about my company and my products in this way and turned away from them. What a loss for UM. This is my last word here, I've lost interest.