[silvermuse]

Audeze LCD-X with Nitsch Pietus Maximus with ESS DAC chip but may go slightly above your budget

Indeed a bit out of my price range on the DAC/Amp, though I understand as far as those go that's still in the mid range. Sounds like a great upgrade from my incoming FiiO K7 once I learn a bit more about them and how they affect my listening experience.

 

[silvermuse]

Oh it's very easy, just tell JM what you know. He does the rest. Most just go for warm and detailed tuning. You can always send them back to get them retuned too which is really nice. I have done one retune so far and it was amazing. I'm upper sensitive and all headphones are fatiguing to some extent for me if I use them all day. I have 3 XTC with different tunings and they are all less fatiguing than my Z1r and Clear OGs were.

You've kinda sold me on these, actually. I see a lot of amazing things said about them, and that they're really among the best while being at a ridiculous price point. They're literally in my budget. I do want to see what an Arya is like for $550, an HD 660S2 for $350, or an HD 800S for $800. Would love to hear an Elex for $400 or some of the LCDs for $400-800 as well. All of these, as a prospective audiophile, really interest me in hearing just to see what they're like and see which one really stuns me.

HOWEVER these JM XTC Opens... it sounds like they could be the best I could possibly do for under $1000. Maybe they don't get talked about in the more mainstream content about headphones that often recommends the Hifimans or Senns in that range, due to being a smaller production, but everything I can find is raving about them for the most part. I don't know much about what to ask for, I'm picky but oblivious, but it sounds like I know enough to get started or to even ask for reference tuning and go from there.

Can you give me any more of your own opinion or background on them? I also did see a mention that they can be extremely electrically sensitive and your system needs to have zero noise, and I've just got a PC that's going to be running a FiiO K7 for now. I'm not sure if, despite the potential, these cans require a more advanced system powering them?

 

[Shane D]

Yes, a very powerful option! I would be happy to go with an HD660S2 and an Elex for both in the $400-500 price range, which seems doable.

My follow-up question for you, then, is: have you heard the 800S? The 660S2 is nipping at the price of the 800S (I can see as low as $800), and I hear the 800S mentioned a lot but not the 660S2. As you've tried all of the affordable 6__'s and these, with lots of amps, I'm really curious what you think. It would be an option for a single-pair route.

Other question, any thought on the Arya? At the moment, thanks to your recommendation, I'm likely considering 2 out of the Arya, the 660S2, and the Elex. I'd love a huge soundstage on at least one of them with the Arya (assuming its like the EXS/Ananda in that regard), not sure how the others are, 660S2 seems like it could be big? Would you consider the Arya out of these 3?

I have never heard the HD800S. The wide soundstage is great but it has a reputation of being bass light. Not my thing.

I lusted after the Arya for a long time, but ended up getting the HE6se V2's instead. They were much cheaper, but are very amp fussy. I partnered them with the iFi Pro iCAN and I was hooked.

My top three are:
Focal Clear's (formerly Elex's)
Grado GH2's
HiFiman HE6se V2's

An up and comer are the HD660S2's.

And I have a few others. I am a very Mid-Fi guy.

 

[phoneslave86]

You've kinda sold me on these, actually. I see a lot of amazing things said about them, and that they're really among the best while being at a ridiculous price point. They're literally in my budget. I do want to see what an Arya is like for $550, an HD 660S2 for $350, or an HD 800S for $800. Would love to hear an Elex for $400 or some of the LCDs for $400-800 as well. All of these, as a prospective audiophile, really interest me in hearing just to see what they're like and see which one really stuns me.

HOWEVER these JM XTC Opens... it sounds like they could be the best I could possibly do for under $1000. Maybe they don't get talked about in the more mainstream content about headphones that often recommends the Hifimans or Senns in that range, due to being a smaller production, but everything I can find is raving about them for the most part. I don't know much about what to ask for, I'm picky but oblivious, but it sounds like I know enough to get started or to even ask for reference tuning and go from there.

Can you give me any more of your own opinion or background on them? I also did see a mention that they can be extremely electrically sensitive and your system needs to have zero noise, and I've just got a PC that's going to be running a FiiO K7 for now. I'm not sure if, despite the potential, these cans require a more advanced system powering them?

I have 3 pairs of XTC so far and I'm going to get another at some point when I can if that says anything. Each one is quite different than the other. They provide very separated/layered highly tuned sound that includes incredible bass, lush realistic mids and plenty of upper detail. You don't need any advanced system and warm and detailed tuning works great with every music genre as an overall headphone. You can slap these things on a cellphone and you will be getting more detail even at that level than many other headphones. They have great 3D imaging for games too and can give you a nice slice of realistic sound. I wouldn't worry about the sensitivity at all. So far in my experience there is always a solution to noise problems as well. I use my XTC on a number of things including dongles, dac/amp combos and of course my main system in my signature. The XTC work great with many DAPs too because it's so easy to drive. Huge soundstage with nice thick texture using iBasso DX320 with Nutube Amp 14. It's pretty dang juicy.

 

[silvermuse]

I have never heard the HD800S. The wide soundstage is great but it has a reputation of being bass light. Not my thing.

I lusted after the Arya for a long time, but ended up getting the HE6se V2's instead. They were much cheaper, but are very amp fussy. I partnered them with the iFi Pro iCAN and I was hooked.

My top three are:
Focal Clear's (formerly Elex's)
Grado GH2's
HiFiman HE6se V2's

An up and comer are the HD660S2's.

And I have a few others. I am a very Mid-Fi guy.

Can you speak at all to what makes you love the Clear/Elex (or is it the Elear)? I've heard they're extremely high quality and I'm curious which aspects make you love them.

 

[Shane D]

Can you speak at all to what makes you love the Clear/Elex (or is it the Elear)? I've heard they're extremely high quality and I'm curious which aspects make you love them.

I started with the Elex's from MassDrop back a few years. 2018 maybe. The first headphone that blew me away. I had heard it called W-shaped and when I got them I realized what that meant. Great bass, marvelous mids and very capable treble. They are great with new rock, classic rock, blues and horn jazz. I had heard about bad drivers, but I never had any problems.

I had looked at Clear's also, but here in Canada at the time they sold for $1,999.00, plus tax (15%). WAY too much for me.

Enjoyed them for several years and then Headphones.com started selling OG Clear's for under $1,000.00US. my warranty on the Elex's had expired and I read that Focal wouldn't service them after warranty as they were a MassDrop headphone. So about a year ago I ordered the Clear's and compared them head to head. The difference was Very minor, to me. I sold the Elex's and now had another three years of warranty and I know that these will be serviced forever.

As an aside I also bought the Focal Radiance's and they are my favourite closed back so far. Also bought the Elegia's and was not impressed. There is a reason they became a discount headphone.

I love the sound, the feel and the look of Focal headphones. I am now a full on fanboy.

PS: Some speak of hearing a metallic timbre with Focal headphones, but I never have. But I should mention that I am a quiet listener and I top out at 72-74 Db's.

 

[plmon]

Hi there! Been reading Head-Fi and following classifieds for a while, but never made an account (well, I had an old one under another email that I never used).

I thought I'd test the waters and see if anyone had good advice for me!

Thank you SO MUCH in advance if you read this and offer advice. I've tried to make it clear and well-organized. You're welcome to just read the bullet points and ignore the details, just to peek what I've heard and what I'm looking for and looking at. If you wish, you can read the other notes I added.




My prior listening experience

As a teenager, didn't know much about hi-fi, was getting into classical music heavily and that was most of my listening, owned all of these at the same time:

• Sennheiser HD 598 (loved these, were my main pair for years)
• AKG K 240 (was too inexperienced to judge)
• Sony MDR 7506 (was too inexperienced to judge)

Fast forward a decade or two, to what I've had over the past few years:

• Bose QC 35 ii (my main for everything, amazing noise canceling but NEVER use it, I actually use them unpowered and wired all the time, and genuinely feel that, at least for my pair, the sound quality seems much worse when turned on, despite what analyses say - I never use them on the go anymore and live alone, so I don't use the wireless OR the noise canceling, so why do I still own them? hence the desire to explore better headphones for my use case)
• Apple AirPods Pro 2 (love the convenience of these, exclusively use them when going out instead of the Bose, never enjoyed in-ears much and any I've ever had tend to either be uncomfortable or gradually fall out and I have to reseat them often, including with these AirPods, but not uncomfortable and do sound pretty good to me - not good enough though that I ever pull them out at home for listening)

What I've dabbled in recently:

• HIFIMAN Edition XS (first step into mid-fi, I wanted to hear the soundstage and boy was it impressive, had some great experiences but then returned them due to buyer's remorse at the time, despite enjoying them)
• HIFIMAN Ananda (six months later I went in again, this time on a great deal on Anandas, and they sounded fairly similar to what I remembered liking about the Edition XS's but I actually got them cheaper and felt happy about the price; sadly, the cables were SUPER loose on them and it became a constant annoyance with unplugging and audio quality issues from movement)
• Topping DX3 Pro+ (had this powering the Edition XS, seemed to work well, but I have no reference point for DACs and amps so I'm totally lost with recognizing their value, just blindly following advice here)
• Beyerdynamic Amiron Home (got this in a trade+cash for the Anandas, they seem like a fun listen, obviously much closer with less soundstage, but I did immediately enjoy them and don't feel too bad about getting to try them out in the interim, even if I feel like I prefer the wide soundstage - sadly, haven't had two higher quality headphones at the same time to really compare)

My use case

• I listen almost exclusively at home at my PC.
• My listening is about 50% classical (mostly piano, then symphonic, then whatever) and 50% various genres and anything else (often rock and metal, or soundtracks, or sometimes pop, but no big focus).
• I currently have a FiiO K7 in the mail as my DAC/Amp, so I'll be working with that first.

Budget and goals

My goal is headphones that are around $500, but feel okay about owning headphones up to $800 if they felt like a seriously great experience, though I'm picky and susceptible to nocebo affect with tech (I lean towards assuming and perceiving that there isn't that much difference unless it slaps me in the face) and hence a lot of buyer's remorse, so an $800 pair is a big risk for me.

My goal for a whole system is under $1000. I already have the FiiO K7 arriving soon, so hopefully that covers an appropriate amp for this sort of system. If it doesn't work out, I'd return it and replace it with something at the same price range.

That leaves like $500-800 range for headphones, and I either want:

1. Two different pairs that complement each other
2. One single pair that is worth the tier upgrade in price

Options I've been exploring and would love feedback on

Headphone options if I want 2 different pairs (in the $150-500 range each):

1. HIFIMAN Edition XS or Ananda - I'd be down to have one of these be one of my two pairs, the soundstage is very fun, and I know they're comfortable on my head if I choose to daily drive them (I wear my headphones sometimes all day). However, I wasn't necessarily... blown away, as a beginner. I just enjoyed them.
2. HIFIMAN Sundara - Could go cheaper and make these an option, though I feel like since I've already tried two higher tier HIFIMAN options, and which are still in my price range, that I shouldn't bother with these.
3. Sennheiser HD600 / 6XX / 660S / other 6__? - I've never tried one of these and have been recommended to do so. It sounds like they'd be great and an awesome option in a mid-fi multi-headphone system, BUT I've heard debates that they are indeed extremely different from one another and people seem to love/hate different ones and have their preferences, so I really really struggle to know which one to go for. Seems like there could very likely be a right and wrong choice for me out of the 6__ options. Maybe even 560S fits in here? Or 650? I had the 598's before and that's my only reference. I think I have them in storage and should pull them out to try now.
4. Sennheiser HD660S2 - have been recommended these as far better than the other 6__ options and a step up from the 660S
5. Focal Clear (OG?) / Elex / Elear? - could be in this price range, don't know anything about them apart from often seeing them mentioned
6. Audede LCD-X / 2 / 3 - sometimes could be in this price range, but as with the Focals I just don't know anything about them apart from seeing them often namedropped

Headphone options if I just want 1 more expensive pair (in the $500-800 range):

1. Sennheiser HD800S - Have heard that these can be endgame for some people. No idea if they align with what my preferences will end up being, but have heard great stuff and might just barely be in my budget. (Is the 8XX the same thing?)
2. HIFIMAN Arya - Can almost find these cheap enough to run in the double headphone setup, but not sure how much better they would be for me versus the Edition XS or Ananda, for the price. Then again, knowing I did at least enjoy those, maybe it's more of a good thing for me and fairly safe bet for spending more money.
3. Audeze LCD-X / 2 / 3 - Depending on the model and deal, some are in this price range
4. Focal Clear (OG?) / Elex / Elear? - Also see these mentioned a lot, but don't know a lot about them.
5. JM XTC Open - Apparently these might be ridiculously good for under $1000, though I don't know if my starter setup would be worthy of driving them, but extremely interested in this option

DAC/Amps options (I don't know if I can justify beyond the $200 price range for my first DAC/Amp, before I really know anything about them):

1. FiiO K7 - this is in the mail, going to try it out first, I don't know how to judge it but if it works it works and I'll probably keep it without trying any other options
2. Schiit stack / Atom stack - keep hearing about these and they can be a similar price range ($150-300) as the other options here, but didn't decide to go that route yet
3. Topping DX3 Pro+ - had it, returned it with the Edition XS, but it did seem to work fine, no way to compare it really. I actually did buy it again with the Anandas but it was defective and had to return, so I didn't decide to buy it a 3rd time... but I maybe still might!
4. Heard tube amps can be important? No idea, I'm new to stuff like that, and things like balanced cables, etc.

My recommendation would be two pairs. IMO, the more expensive headphones are worth it if you know what you want in your sound preferences. This is even more important if you're going for a single purchase and they'll be your main driver. But if you're not sure about your sound preferences, I think going 2 less expensive ones are better. Not only will it help you understand your sound preferences more, but the value nowadays is pretty awesome, you're getting a good chunk of the way to kilobuck quality.

If you enjoyed the Edition XS/Ananda, I'd get one of those since they're an amazing value and the combination of soundstage presentation + balanced bright tonality is pretty hard to find elsewhere. To complement them, I'd pick either the Sennheiser HD600 series or the Focal Elex because they make up for the weaknesses of the Hifiman. They have a more intimate sound presentation which makes them sound better for vocals. Between the two, I find the HD600 series to have a more natural sounding tonality while the Elex wins in the bass for extension and slam.

The HD600 series is very different-sounding from the 500 series. There are differences between the individual 600 models, but those differences are not that significant imo unless you're A/Bing them. The midrange quality is what stands out for that family of headphones. I'd just go for whichever you can find most cheaply, then swap once you have a better idea of the smaller quirks.

 

[CheekerBreeker]

If your happy with the xs or ananda and dont mind the comfort i would not get the arya. And dacs are a scam, so unless you need more features, the dx3 you have is plenty to run basically everything.

I also wouldn't get the hd800s as a single pair, their bass really sucks. Not would i go focal, they sell no spare parts and only sell overpriced pads. Combined with low build quality. Id say just keep the amiron and get another ananda with a custom cable

 

[silvermuse]

After a lot of consideration I think I have a main plan:

1. Check out a few audio stores in my area (Seattle) to get a clue about which headphones I might prefer
2. Watching for deals on an Arya or HD800S
3. In the meantime, while waiting, will probably grab a good deal on an Elex or Clear, and a 600-series, probably a 6XX or a 660S2 - give them a shot and consider if I still feel the need for anything pricier, and if so, resell them when I find the others

The JM XTC Opens sound very enticing, I think I'll explore something like that once I get a bit more experience in mid-fi/hi-fi and see how I like some of the major players.

Any thoughts on this plan? I really gotta thank everyone who has shared opinions.

 

[buke9]

After a lot of consideration I think I have a main plan:

1. Check out a few audio stores in my area (Seattle) to get a clue about which headphones I might prefer
2. Watching for deals on an Arya or HD800S
3. In the meantime, while waiting, will probably grab a good deal on an Elex or Clear, and a 600-series, probably a 6XX or a 660S2 - give them a shot and consider if I still feel the need for anything pricier, and if so, resell them when I find the others

The JM XTC Opens sound very enticing, I think I'll explore something like that once I get a bit more experience in mid-fi/hi-fi and see how I like some of the major players.

Any thoughts on this plan? I really gotta thank everyone who has shared opinions.

For me the 660S2 is the best of the 6 series headphones. I know some of the 600 fans will disagree but that’s just my take. I have the 6XX’s and 660S2’s and have heard the 600’s several times. They all are quite similar sounding in tone but the tuning is a bit different and the 660S2 has a bit of soundstage that the others lack. I think the 660S2 would be a good start.

 

[silvermuse]

For me the 660S2 is the best of the 6 series headphones. I know some of the 600 fans will disagree but that’s just my take. I have the 6XX’s and 660S2’s and have heard the 600’s several times. They all are quite similar sounding in tone but the tuning is a bit different and the 660S2 has a bit of soundstage that the others lack. I think the 660S2 would be a good start.

Yeah, it's fascinating hearing the 6 series opinions. Some absolutely hate the 660S2, but a ton of people say it's the best by far. Otherwise, seems to be a preference for the 6XX. Of course, the 660S2 does cost over double the 6XX, so they aren't necessarily comparable as the same tier even.

 

[buke9]

Yeah, it's fascinating hearing the 6 series opinions. Some absolutely hate the 660S2, but a ton of people say it's the best by far. Otherwise, seems to be a preference for the 6XX. Of course, the 660S2 does cost over double the 6XX, so they aren't necessarily comparable as the same tier even.

I think the 6XX/650 are fantastic with a tube amp like the Bottlehead Crack . Many say the HD800 is amp picky but I find the 650/6XX even more so for me. With the basic Schiit stack they are ok but a Cavalli Tube Hybrid or iFi Zen Can Signature 6XX just much better in my opinion.

 

[chesebert]

Yeah, it's fascinating hearing the 6 series opinions. Some absolutely hate the 660S2, but a ton of people say it's the best by far. Otherwise, seems to be a preference for the 6XX. Of course, the 660S2 does cost over double the 6XX, so they aren't necessarily comparable as the same tier even.

If you start from nothing, go with 660S2. They sound decent from literally anything. I wouldn't worry about 600/650 until you can throw a few K at just the amp and probably the same if not more on the dac/source.

 

[chesebert]

If your happy with the xs or ananda and dont mind the comfort i would not get the arya. And dacs are a scam, so unless you need more features, the dx3 you have is plenty to run basically everything.

I also wouldn't get the hd800s as a single pair, their bass really sucks. Not would i go focal, they sell no spare parts and only sell overpriced pads. Combined with low build quality. Id say just keep the amiron and get another ananda with a custom cable

800S bass sounds fairly full, deep with reasonable slam from headamp gsx2 and Jeff Rowland Aeris dac. What are you using your 800S with?

 

[plmon]

After a lot of consideration I think I have a main plan:

1. Check out a few audio stores in my area (Seattle) to get a clue about which headphones I might prefer
2. Watching for deals on an Arya or HD800S
3. In the meantime, while waiting, will probably grab a good deal on an Elex or Clear, and a 600-series, probably a 6XX or a 660S2 - give them a shot and consider if I still feel the need for anything pricier, and if so, resell them when I find the others

The JM XTC Opens sound very enticing, I think I'll explore something like that once I get a bit more experience in mid-fi/hi-fi and see how I like some of the major players.

Any thoughts on this plan? I really gotta thank everyone who has shared opinions.

If you're in Seattle, I'd check out Definitive Audio and maybe the Best Buy in Northgate. Definitive Audio has some flagships you can demo like the HD800S and Focal and Best Buy usually has Sennheisers up for demoing.

I agree about the JM XTC Open, imo exploring boutique options is something best done when you have a better handle of what you want in a headphone.