[wuwhere]

  For anyone at RMAF, Kitsune just dropped off a Holo Spring DAC for us to use today (our DAC was lost by FedEx) in room 6015. 

 
Sorry to hear that. That's nice of Kitsune.

 

[lukeap69]

  For anyone at RMAF, Kitsune just dropped off a Holo Spring DAC for us to use today (our DAC was lost by FedEx) in room 6015. 

 
Will - can you compare Holo Spring with DAC-19?

 

[oneguy]

For anyone at RMAF, Kitsune just dropped off a Holo Spring DAC for us to use today (our DAC was lost by FedEx) in room 6015. 

Someone is just giving it a quick listen to make sure it wasn't broken in transit. Really you should be thanking them because they are providing this service to you free of charge

 

[willsw]

   
Will - can you compare Holo Spring with DAC-19?

 
It has been a while since I've listened to the DAC-19, and I only did so on headphones, while I'm hearing the Holo Spring through a much better overall system and speakers, so I can't really. 
 

Someone is just giving it a quick listen to make sure it wasn't broken in transit. Really you should be thanking them because they are providing this service to you free of charge

 
I did thank them, in person, and am very appreciative that they came up and offered us the use of their DAC. I'm also glad we are able to give them an opportunity to have their DAC in more systems. I'd also like to thank Gordon Rankin of Wavelength for letting us borrow a Cosecant DAC, which sounded excellent, though we ended up needing a DSD-capable DAC and returned the tubed beauty.

 

[lukeap69]

   
It has been a while since I've listened to the DAC-19, and I only did so on headphones, while I'm hearing the Holo Spring through a much better overall system and speakers, so I can't really. 
 

 
Understood Will. I will have mine probably in a week or 2 so I can compare them myself. I was just being impatient wanted to hear your opinion... 

 

[oneguy]

I did thank them, in person, and am very appreciative that they came up and offered us the use of their DAC. I'm also glad we are able to give them an opportunity to have their DAC in more systems. I'd also like to thank Gordon Rankin of Wavelength for letting us borrow a Cosecant DAC, which sounded excellent, though we ended up needing a DSD-capable DAC and returned the tubed beauty.

Sorry my "them" was ambiguous. I meant the person at FedEx who lost your DAC.

 

[Nada]

 The Spring DAC is his newest product and is the first DAC in history to be capable of DSD native on an R2R DAC!  This spring is capable of DSD256 and actually running on his bespoke discrete ladder DAC!.......Dual R2R network for PCM, and Dual R2R network for DSD!

 
 
Please can someone who knows about DSD decoding explain how DSD with just one bit can possibly be decoded using a R2R array in the Holo DAC?  Doesnt DSD only need one resister for DA conversions? How can native DSD possibly use a ladder resistor array for analogue conversion with only one bit? 
 
@Ted.B - with your extensive IT and DSD background and contacts I wonder if you can address this fundamental question at the core of the Holo DAC claims?
 
PS Ted - I think your a brave man inviting criticism of your review on an open forum and handling it with such maturity. Thats cool disclosing your interests. Might be a first in the audio review world? I hope you add your disclosure as a footnote to your review like the medical journal authors have to. I think it gives you significant credibility. Thanks for your contribution to our hobby.

 

[ted_b]

   
 
Please can someone who knows about DSD decoding explain how DSD with just one bit can possibly be decoded using a R2R array in the Holo DAC?  Doesnt DSD only need one resister for DA conversions? How can native DSD possibly use a ladder resistor array for analogue conversion with only one bit? 
 
@Ted.B - with your extensive IT and DSD background and contacts I wonder if you can address this fundamental question at the core of the Holo DAC claims?
 
PS Ted - I think your a brave man inviting criticism of your review on an open forum and handling it with such maturity. Thats cool disclosing your interests. Might be a first in the audio review world? I hope you add your disclosure as a footnote to your review like the medical journal authors have to. I think it gives you significant credibility. Thanks for your contribution to our hobby.

 
Yes, I would love Jeff to come on and explain DSD with R2R, but when I asked hiom he said it would need to use propreitary info that he does not want to disclose.  So I went into the review with skepticism.  I will ask Jussi (HQPlayer developer) what he thinks, as he once responded to a discussion about MSB (similar issues) and said it was possible but they'd have to do x, y and z. 
 
My listening to DSD via the Holo Audio Spring gives me no pause that they are doing native DSD well, whatever the process.  It sounds like my now sold Meitner sounded (the biggest mistake of my audio trading life, to ell that thing) except that Meitner was limited to DSD64 input.  It sounds somewhat similar to the exaSound, which also exhibits (in DSD) a very live, very dynamic, but not harsh sound.

 

[phonyx]

  Why would I start there???  Metrum Hex, Pavane and Yiggy do not do DSD at all, let alone a separate dac path (and I love my DSD collection, and several CA folks want to hear what I say about DSD cuz I've listened to 20+ DSD dacs in my 5 years of file-based DSD listening, started the DSD database with Jesus, wrote the SACD Ripping Guide, etc)..  I introduced that idea of reviewing dual path DSD/PCM dacs in what you called "all of us know this".section.   . 
 
We are clearly on separate pages.   My fault for not being more obvious.  I offered to listen to the Yiggy cuz folks asked, but to spend all of my time comparing the PCM portion of the Holo Audio Spring to several other PCM-only dacs is not something I am vaguely interested in. 

 
PCM is the bread and butter of all DAC's and you much preferred the Holo in NOS mode, so much so you didn't review it at all in any oversampling modes... so I'd say comparing this new DAC in NOS mode with a previous class leading NOS DAC's using PCM which makes up the majority if not the entirety of everyones music collections would be exactly what you'd want to aim for!  

 

[comzee]

Whelp, I searched the thread and doesn't look like any reviews out yet. Specifically v.s. R2R DACs in the same price range, Yggdrasil and Master 7.
The features mean nothing to me, DSD, oversampling capabilities, XMOS usb.
 
I use a DDC for my Yggy and M7, and only play PCM 44.1 music.
This is why I'm interested in SQ only as it relates to PCM 44.1. 
 
Also, I hope some good impressions come in, for example Yggdrasil USB sucks. 
It also needs at minimum 1-3 days on to sound 100%. 
 
Someone reviewing Yggy brought to a meet that was turned off, using USB, it's going to sound like poop.
 
I hope to see accurate reviews soon.

 

[wuwhere]

No comparisons yet, here's a quick impression in Audiogon from RMAF, last post.
 
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/holo-audio-spring-dac-affordable-discrete-r2r-multibit-dac-could-be?page=2

 

[kazcou]

A FPGA one bit DAC projet
http://fpga4fun.com/PWM_DAC.html
 
Since DSD is using only one bit, it only needs to reprogramme the FPGA
 
But I don't understand why people want a R2R DSD DAC and specialy for DSD use only.
A good ES9018 DAC will performe better and for cheaper.

 

[Tboooe]

  A FPGA one bit DAC projet
http://fpga4fun.com/PWM_DAC.html
 
Since DSD is using only one bit, it only needs to reprogramme the FPGA
 
But I don't understand why people want a R2R DSD DAC and specialy for DSD use only.
A good ES9018 DAC will performe better and for cheaper.

@kazcou it seems from your signature that you have this dac?  If so, how does it sound with DSD material?  I suppose that is the ultimate test of whether or not R2R makes sense for DSD.

 

[kazcou]

Still on the way to France... It is coming from China.
I don't care about DSD, because there is no much DSD native musique, most of DSD are remasterized from an old 44khz/16bits master or new 352khz/24bits master.
 
There is no reason to use R2R for DSD, R2R is only good for PCM.
(A Delta Sigma is one bit DSP, so when it is coming to decoding a multibit sound file is using interpolation to rebuilt the signal. You lost some sharpness on the sound.
A R2R is a multibit technology, so when you have to recreate the sound, you don't need to interpolate and the sound is accurate.
But you need to remember, the decoder is only doing a part of the work and the preamp section is far more important in the final sound reproduction).
 
Using a multibit technology for decoding a one bit sound format with a FPGA is wasting money for something inefficient. Is like using a general purpose processor for a specific work. A DSP (speciflized processor) like ES9018, AKM4490, CS3498, PCM1792 ..., will do the work faster, cost you less money, with a better result.

 

[Tboooe]

Thank you for your technical reply.  It helped me better understand how DACs work a little better.  I now see your point.  Perhaps a dumb question...even though R2R to decode DSD is inefficient could it sound better than using Delta Sigma?  A simple analogy is Class A amps versus Class A/B.  Class A amps are very inefficient but I do prefer them.