[SatchmoColtrane]

There are quite a few videos on YouTube with explanations. You can also Google it. If a person categorically does not believe in improving sound with a USB cable and has completely closed this issue for himself, then there is no point in explaining or proving anything to him. It's just pointless!

Hrrrm. Well I’m not completely closed to the issue so I guess I will continue to do research and won’t pursue it further with you. Thanks for the response.

 

[ttt123]

Nope, a usb cable either works or doesn’t work - the explanation of the sound quality improvements in your post # 902 above by the reviewer are nothing but a word salad and utterly meaningless. By all means buy the cable as it does look well made and very nice but it will not and can not bring an audio improvement, this has been established time and time again yet we are still applying mythical thinking to what is an electrical current passing from one device to another - it works or it doesn’t work, that is all there is to consider from an electrical/electronic engineering perspective

Agree as far as it applies to digital data. But digital audio has added complexities which means that there can be effects that digital data does not consider.
That you do not believe is appropriate for your beliefs and understanding. That there are other opinions that do not agree with your viewpoint should be an opportunity for further discussion and learning, and a reminder that knowledge is always expanding, and we certainly have not reached a point where we know everything that there is to know, and there is nothing left to learn.

Your statement that others are not clear on science and don't understand, can also be applied to yourself. So there is no need to lose civility, as everybody has their own understanding and experience, and there is nobody who knows everything. Nobody.

This article on how digital switches can affect audio quality, even though the data is perfect, is a clue to some of the complexity. While this article discusses switches, the areas investigated can also apply to cables, in the sense that there are things we don't understand about cables also.

 

[Vlad Koon]

@ttt123 Thanks!

 

[Somafunk]

This article on how digital switches can affect audio quality

If at uni I dared to quote or implement what Hans personifies throughout his vids I would be up in front of the course master getting a bollocking and most likely on the way to failing my degree, my tutor (god rest his soul) helped with developing the protocols behind usb signal transfer with Ajay Bhatt at intel in the early 90's, yes there are additional complexities with adapting the USB protocol for additional use cases but for transferring a simple electrical signal such as the use case here, it is the absolute simplistic use possible for a usb connection.

I'll leave this thread now.

 

[Vlad Koon]

If you don’t see, hear and/or don’t understand something, this does not mean at all that it does not and cannot exist. It feels as if you are the smartest and most knowledgeable here, and everyone else whose opinion does not coincide with yours is just fools with a placebo effect.

 

[SatchmoColtrane]

Perfect. So to summarize:

Interested in more information, ask questions about the science behind it to the guy praising them.

Responds with no real answers to my questions. Told to google it myself.

Google it - everything I read says the cables are over priced and not worth it OR they are totally worth it but no actual data really backing up the claim.

Another poster puts up a link that tries to explain the science behind why a $75 cable could be better sound.

The original poster criticizing the cable says “my professor would fail me” for the video provided by the new poster.

Me: still in the same place as before with no real answer either way.

The internet is fun hahaha.

 

[Vlad Koon]

I’m not waving off your ability to hear things better either but I’m also well aware of the placebo effect.

This is definitely not a placebo effect because I can hear the difference in a blind test my brother did for me

I guess why I’m asking more questions of you, Vlad, is that I’d like to better understand the science behind this claim? It seems like you instantly brushed aside the criticism with no explanation backing it but I’m honestly interested in hearing more about this cable and why it’s able to provide this level of clarity? What is it that makes it work so much better?

In my message (#901) I wrote the following: "I don’t know what magic happens there, but the sound becomes noticeably better ".

Maybe it's the planar driver of my headphones, which respond very well to changing the DAC? Maybe in headphones with a dynamic driver the difference is not so noticeable? I use LetShuoer S12 Pro in-ear monitors, which I connect to a Questyle M15 DAC. I connect the M15th with an iBasso CB18 cable to Thunderbolt 3 of my Mac mini on the M1 chip. Maybe if these expensive USB cables connect the DAC to smartphones (even very expensive ones), and not to computers that provide more power, then there will be no difference? Perhaps this is why many people do not hear the difference in sound...



I use an iBasso CB18 cable to connect my Questyle M15 dongle exclusively to a Mac mini (at home, of course)! I don’t know how this cable will affect the sound if you connect the dongle to your smartphone. Maybe in this case the difference in sound will be really minimal.

@SatchmoColtrane If you don't hear a difference in sound, then don't bother about it. I can hear the difference and it’s very significant, which is why I’m willing to spend $50 or more on such premium USB cables. After all, you are buying your audio setup for yourself, and not for someone else.

 

[SatchmoColtrane]

If you don’t see, hear and/or don’t understand something, this does not mean at all that it does not and cannot exist. It feels as if you are the smartest and most knowledgeable here, and everyone else whose opinion does not coincide with yours is just fools with a placebo effect.

This seems to fall into the religion versus science debate there, Vlad.

You are just as guilty of this. Tossing arbitrary numbers out like “20 percent better sound stage” with no actual data backing it is no different than saying “god made this happen, why can’t you just believe that?”

Some of us like real tangible numbers and proof which is what I asked you to provide. By saying “some kind of magic happened” is not the closing argument you seem to think it is - that is the very definition of a personal opinion and not a fact based argument and you seem to be pushing back on that.

I’m not saying that YOU don’t hear a difference, I’m asking for the numbers/ data that proves it makes a difference which I can’t seem to find anywhere. We have sooo much data when it comes to eq’s and amperage’s and how that effects sound, etc but we can’t seem to find the data for this cable? It just keeps me skeptical.

Do I think the poster that criticized you in the first place brought anything more to the discussion? Not necessarily but he did provide his experience in the electrical field which has some relevance. Unless he’s just full of crap. Who knows?!?

Anyways, thanks for the debate/ discussion in general. I don’t mean to stir up trouble by any means. I would just love to see some actual data backing up these claims being made in order to invest in a cable that will cost me 1/3 of the price of my M15.

 

[Vlad Koon]

…and wonder why (if true) they would package it with a substandard cable?

Because manufacturers, especially very large and world-famous ones, often skimp on many things, from thin cardboard packaging (for example, this applies to Beyerdynamic and their DT 770 Pro and 1770 Pro models) to the USB cables that they include in the kit. I thought it was no secret to anyone. Just look at Apple. iPhones don’t even come with a charger; you have to buy one separately! There are no headphones included either. And this is in a smartphone from the No. 1 brand, the cost of which can reach $1,600!

The official price for the Questyle M15 is $250. Let's say two cables included (USB-C to USB-C and USB-C to USB-A) cost $5. If you remove them from the kit and add a high-quality cable, such as iBasso CB18, which costs $50, then the dongle itself will cost not $250, but $290 (250-5-5+50=290). That is, the price of the M15 increases by 40 bucks! Why would a manufacturer so inflate the price of its already expensive device? That's why manufacturers often include USB cables of mediocre quality. Moreover, as practice shows, many still will not hear the difference in sound with such cables So why then equip your dongle with such an expensive and high-quality USB cable, which will only increase the final cost of the product?

Interested in more information, ask questions about the science behind it to the guy praising them.

Responds with no real answers to my questions.

It's not necessary to know what chemical processes occur in something you really like

 

[SatchmoColtrane]

For someone who “doesnt speak fluent English” and couldn’t be bothered to explain your position on this cable with any facts/ data it’s wild to me that you keep on replying to arbitrary stuff but have yet to show me ANY DATA BACKING UP YOUR CLAIMS.

You are doubling down on your thoughts and feelings rather than providing anything tangible. I thought I made that point clear in my last reply?

Rather than taking the time/ effort to explain how major global companies supply chains work to me, please just provide the proof as to your cables superiority besides “your ears”?

Cause so far all you’ve said is still only personal opinion which I understood from your first post and why I asked you to clarify in the first place especially after what I thought was a condescending reply to the original skeptic.

You are absolutely right that audio is a personal choice. I have never argued that fact with you. What I am disagreeing with is you saying this cable is superior but providing no actual data showing why that is. I’m sorry I’m not trying to be difficult but you keep coming back at me here.

 

[Vlad Koon]

For someone who “doesnt speak fluent English” and couldn’t be bothered to explain your position on this cable with any facts/ data it’s wild to me that you keep on replying to arbitrary stuff but have yet to show me ANY DATA BACKING UP YOUR CLAIMS.

Rather than taking the time/ effort to explain how major global companies supply chains work to me, please just provide the proof as to your cables superiority besides “your ears”?

Let me quote myself again: "Sorry, but I'm not going to prove anything to you or convince you of anything".

 

[SatchmoColtrane]

Let me quote myself again: "Sorry, but I'm not going to prove anything to you or convince you of anything".

Right but that wasn’t replying to me so forgive my confusion. So let’s just agree to disagree, yes?

Thanks for the chat! Hope this finds you well!

 

[Vlad Koon]

When I eat delicious cake #1, I also don’t know what ingredients are used in it and why it tastes better than cake #2. And you know, I absolutely don’t care! Simply because I like the taste of cake #1. If dry numbers, visual graphs, analytics, etc. are important to you, but not the final result, then you simply don’t need premium USB cables.

 

[SatchmoColtrane]

When I eat delicious cake #1, I also don’t know what ingredients are used in it and why it tastes better than cake #2. And you know, I absolutely don’t care! Simply because I like the taste of cake #1. If dry numbers, visual graphs, analytics, etc. are important to you, but not the final result, then you simply don’t need premium USB cables.

This reminds me of an episode of the Simpsons:

Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

It’s a tale as old as time.

 

[Vlad Koon]

I don’t care, to be honest... Such expensive things are bought primarily for what? To please us audiophiles. Right? Right! Am I happy with this purchase? Undoubtedly! And I don’t care about the opinion of someone on the Internet who persistently demands some kind of proof, sorry