[Pingupenguins]

 
Quote:

Christ - here we go. Wolfson groupies, please get over it - we are talking $2 lumps of silicon ... implementation is everything.

Jesus - cool you jets. With half the crap thats on the internet pointing fingers at DAC's. Everyone boasts about having a wolfson, ALO iDevice, GrubDAC, etc. Maybe it was coincidence that the new DAC and the circuitry got worse with the 6g. 
No need to shoot the messenger unless your a Spartan... 
 
So if lods bypass the amp, what the purpose of a iMod?

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

 

Jesus - cool you jets. With half the crap thats on the internet pointing fingers at DAC's. Everyone boasts about having a wolfson, ALO iDevice, GrubDAC, etc. Maybe it was coincidence that the new DAC and the circuitry got worse with the 6g. 
No need to shoot the messenger unless your a Spartan... 
 
So if lods bypass the amp, what the purpose of a iMod?

The purpose of an iMod is to dramatically improve the signal path around the iPods existing DAC. IMO, the CLAS and Fostex HP-P1, in completely circumventing the iPod DAC, have obsoleted the iMod, but I'll leave that for those who have heard all 3.
 
http://aloaudio.com/imod-faq.html
 

 

[shrimants]

iMod was mostly meant for 5g and 5.5g ipods. They had a rather complicated circuit rather than the simple dac to amp to headphone that the 6g ipod classic has. Because of this, even though the internals of the ipod were great, because of all the crap that happened after the DAC, the ipod 5g's stock headphone output sounded terrible and had pretty bad roll off. it sounded cold and trebly to many. the iMod bypassed all that crap and made the circuit into dac-amp-headphones or whatever device.

The alo, hpp1, iDo, and all those other devices make the imod obsolete because instead of bypassing the opamp, they bypass everything. Its as if you are plugging in a computer to the ipod and playing things out of the computer and only using the ipod as a hard drive/software decoder. They are so much more expensive than the imod (which is simply a high quality line out dock cable, if im not mistaken) that the iMod is still a good contender.

 

[b0wl1ng]

I have a 5.5 80g imod/diy mod and have heard the clas though not the fostex, to my ears the clas has a slight edge over the imod, albeit very minimal indeed.
As a comparison and based purely on sound quality I would give the clas 10/10 and the imod 9.5/10, based on portability and footprint I would give the imod 10/10 and the clas 8/10.
The imod/diy mod is an outstanding innovation, hats off to Vinnie, the clas is merely a portable transport option, though a very good one.   

 

[Pingupenguins]

Quote:

iMod was mostly meant for 5g and 5.5g ipods. They had a rather complicated circuit rather than the simple dac to amp to headphone that the 6g ipod classic has. Because of this, even though the internals of the ipod were great, because of all the crap that happened after the DAC, the ipod 5g's stock headphone output sounded terrible and had pretty bad roll off. it sounded cold and trebly to many. the iMod bypassed all that crap and made the circuit into dac-amp-headphones or whatever device.
The alo, hpp1, iDo, and all those other devices make the imod obsolete because instead of bypassing the opamp, they bypass everything. Its as if you are plugging in a computer to the ipod and playing things out of the computer and only using the ipod as a hard drive/software decoder. They are so much more expensive than the imod (which is simply a high quality line out dock cable, if im not mistaken) that the iMod is still a good contender.

Great! what about the 7th gen? Basically whats better a LOD on a 5th 6th or 7th.?

 

[shrimants]

First of all, the portability of the CLAS and other stuff all depends on which headphone amp you'll use in comparison. No matter what though you'll have an extra device strapped to your ipod and need to figure out a good way to carry it around.

As for what is "better", that depends on how you define better. If by better you mean "biggest difference", 5th gen.

6th gen and 7th gen are exactly the same product, electronically speaking.
LOD on the 7th gen will make a positive impact if paired with the right amp, but the amp comes down more to opinion than measurements.

Theres tons of amps, both portable and non portable, that have very different sound signatures. Different people swear by different amps. Ipod LOD for 5th or 6/7 gen into any of those amps will all sound completely different based not only on the amp itself but on the headphones coupled with the amp.

Since both the Wolfson DAC and the Cirrus Logic DAC will sound audibly indistinguishable BY THEMSELVES (ie line output), there is no real difference to measure. Sonove.angry.jp has 6/7 gen ipod DAC only measurements (line out) whereas other sites would have the imod measurement for 5/5.5 gen. But again, both sound so indistinguishable that theres no point even trying to compare.

The only even remotely agreed upon spec is that the headphone out of the 5g and 5.5g is not anywhere near as good as stock headphone out of the 6/7 gen. This is simply because of the implementation. The 6/7 g implemented the chips in a pure, minimal way. The 5/5.5g did not, which is why the imod came into existence in the first place.

this is what we do with the imod. 6g/7g ipods are already optimized with their dac chips, so putting imod on it only lets you exercise your preference of volume control/amp circuitry. In the 5g/5,5g, it is actually necessary because the circuit after the dac is poop and you want nothing to do with the internals. Both imods get you perfectly tailored results to your liking.

 

[Pingupenguins]

So will a lod offer better results on a 6g or 7g? what upgrades from 6th gen to 7th gen. Is it worth the price?

 

[shrimants]

So will a lod offer better results on a 6g or 7g? what upgrades from 6th gen to 7th gen. Is it worth the price?

I didnt realize you didnt know how to read.

The 6g is the same as the 7g. There is no difference, only a different hard drive size.

Also, you can get an LOD cable for 5 bucks, so yes, its worth the price.

 

[Pingupenguins]

I didn't realize you don't know what you wrote.
 
You paired the 6/7 together not comparing it. Also you failed to answer any questions about LOD's. It was all geared towards CLAS, HP-P1 and iMod. Then the comparison between circuitry of the 5/5.5g to the 6/7g. No contrast between 6g and 7g.
 
I also asked what upgrades, as in why did they release a 7th gen. No new features? Simply a new hard drive and "the same product, electronically"?
 
Also, "worth the price" was pointed at, Is the 7g worth the price, or should I buy a 6g. Again asking if there are any new worth while features on the 7g that puts it ahead of the game.

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

I didn't realize you don't know what you wrote.
 
You paired the 6/7 together not comparing it. Also you failed to answer any questions about LOD's. It was all geared towards CLAS, HP-P1 and iMod. Then the comparison between circuitry of the 5/5.5g to the 6/7g. No contrast between 6g and 7g.
 
I also asked what upgrades, as in why did they release a 7th gen. No new features? Simply a new hard drive and "the same product, electronically"?
 
Also, "worth the price" was pointed at, Is the 7g worth the price, or should I buy a 6g. Again asking if there are any new worth while features on the 7g that puts it ahead of the game.

 
I'm afraid I'm with shrimants on this - I read what he wrote as '6G = 7G' : seems simple enough to me. He also pointed out that you dont have to pay $250 for a LOD any more- again, that seems like an invitation for you to put your toe in the water. My own experience with a couple of cheap LODs (Fiio and iBasso) is that they break if you dont baby them - would be best if your rig never leaves your desktop. The main improvement, for me, was the strength of the signal coming from the iPod's lineout, versus the headphone out, but I'm sure many will tell you that it goes well beyond that as there is no attenuation from the lineout.
 
End of the day, I'm not sure why you are working yourself up over differences between two iterations of the same product when your options are clear : CLAS/HP-P1 transport/DAC solutions or the older tech behind the iMod. I don't know of any LOD, regardless of price, that will can compete with these 3 in terms of the end result, but I havent heard the uber-expensive .0000001% oxygen-free jobbies. Its your money - invest wisely.
 
 

 

[shrimants]

For the price question, I misunderstood. I thought you meant an LOD. No, 7th generation ipod is most certainly not worth the price. Nothing changed whatsoever. If that extra 40 gigabytes makes that big of a difference to you, thats fine, but the 7th generation ipod is exactly the same product as the 6th generation. They released it so that they could rid themselves of 2 seperate manufacturing processes (1 for 80 gig and 1 for 120 gig).

The CLAS, and HPP1 are both Dac/Amp combos. They will obviously sound better than any stock ipod, no matter what the generation. you dont use an LOD with these products, you use a USB cable. Its like connecting the ipod to a laptop, reading the encrypted song off the ipod, unencrypting it, and playing it.

The iMod is a simple analog cable that bypasses the amp on the ipods. It lets you use the ipod's DAC with an opamp of your choice. This lets the ipod control playback and decoding, but it disables the ipod's volume control and bypasses it in favor of an external amplifier.

I paired the 5g and 5.5g together because it is the exact same product, but they upgraded the screen slightly.

i pared the 6th and 7th gen together because it is exactly the same product. That is why there was no compare/contrast. If you read my lastish post on page 1 I compared the internals of the 6th and 7th gen ipods and provided links to the internals too.

To answer your question, you could buy a 5th gen or 5.5 gen ipod. I dont know the street price for these anymore and doubt you'll find one new. You will HAVE to use at the VERY LEAST an ipod LOD cable to an external amp in order to make it sound good. Stock headphone out wont terribly well. Another option is to use CLAS or HPP1, but that is VERY expensive with this option you wont need an LOD whatsoever.

You could buy a 6th or 7th gen ipod based on your needs in terms of warranty available with the 7th gen or storage/form factor/cheapness. With this, you should be fine with a simple LOD + Amp, but you can get an even bigger edge using CLAS or HPP1. With this, you dont really NEED the LOD+Amp or the CLAS or HPP1 but any of those will definately make an improvement.

 

[Pingupenguins]

Last q and I'll be out of your hair.
 
6g+lod vs iPod touch+lod. Same sound? If not, how much worse does the touch sound. I favor the multifunctionality but if the sound difference is too horrific then I'll stick to my ZuneHD for multifunctions.
 
I also forgot to mention I'll be running a penguin mint cMoy BB v2.03 and a hand made LOD.

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

Last q and I'll be out of your hair.
 
6g+lod vs iPod touch+lod. Same sound? If not, how much worse does the touch sound. I favor the multifunctionality but if the sound difference is too horrific then I'll stick to my ZuneHD for multifunctions.
 
I also forgot to mention I'll be running a penguin mint cMoy BB v2.03 and a hand made LOD.

Can you be more specific re which Touch you are talking about ? I had the 2007 (6th Gen) Classic (160gb model) and I didnt consider it to be any better from the HO than my 2008 Touch (2nd Gen, and the bottom dweller 8GB model at that). It may have had more clarity, but it wasnt night-and-day better. Teclast's $139 T51 whomps it from both HO and LO.
 
The current model Touch, at least from 32GB up, is reputed to have the best SQ of any stock iPod to date, notwithstanding the ongoing noise from the Wolfson brigade. I cant verify that, even though we have a display case full of them - just not willing to pay the Apple tax any more.
 

 

[shrimants]

I'm not entirely sure if the 6g and the ipod touch use the same dac chip. I wasnt able to find it with any casual googling. i do know that both use a cirrus logic chip. If this is the case, the sound coming out of both will be completely imperceptible.

That being said, I'm fairly sure the ipod touch and iphone both use a different cirrus logic DAC chip than the ipod classic 6g. I'd say the itouch+imod would test better than the ipod 6g+lod, but as for actually hearing a difference I doubt you'll be able to unless you are rocking a pair of REALLY high end headphones.

The penguin mint cmoy amp isnt a reference grade amp by any means, though it does test remarkably well. You wont be able to hear the diference coming out of it between ipod and itouch. I'd go with the cheaper option, personally.

Do you have a smartphone? If not, you'll really enjoy the ipod touch. Its well worth the extra money unless you have a smartphone already.

 

[Pingupenguins]

Ha. I'm never getting a smart phone. I can't afford to blow $100 a month for service alone and 2 year agreements on phones that update every year? Yeah I don't see it. I just need calls. cheap and simple.
 
that's why im looking into a multifunction player. I'll upgrade to a reference setup later. 
 
I meant the latest and greatest iPod touch btw.