[zach915m]

I've listened to the XTC Closed for about a month or so and am blown away. So I wanted to compare them to other high end headphones. So I bought the ZMF verite opens and atrium open that came in yesterday. They don't even hold the XTCs nut sack. Don't get me wrong, they are beyond beautiful and have incredible build. The ZMFs sound muffled and have too much dampening going on. The XTC has more clarity, imaging, tight bass, and separation. The XTC is all around better except for build quality. I feel like I blew almost $6,000 on headphones that won't even be my everyday listeners. Kind of a bummer. John has something special going on.

I got a similar impression from ZMF with regard to being muffled. It was like you had a pillow or blanket over your head was the best way I could describe it.

This isn't true for all ZMF though. The Caldera I found didn't suffer from this and was terrific sounding to me. Definitely ZMFs finest headphone. Then actually their lower tier headphones like the Eikon I thought also were less muffled and a little better. The Verite gets so much praise that I thought the Verite Closed would be my next headphone - very glad I was able to try it before buying.

That said, it's really about personal preferences. There's definitely a lot of folks who like what ZMF has going on and that's perfectly fine.

The challenge is in trying to describe what you hear and trying to read impressions from everyone else out there who have different tastes and ears.

For the time being, it's certainly easier to try a ZMF somewhere at a meetup or CanJam than it would be finding an XTC to try. I bring the XTC with me to meets though. I definitely would suggest to everyone who asks to try any headphone over $500 before buying.

Hey guys - really appreciate you trying our headphones.

One thing that has to be considered is that the dynamic ZMFs use 300 ohm drivers, the XTC and many other easy to drive dynamics are optimized for sources with super low impedance and their ceiling comes much sooner because of the lighter more excitable voice coil.

ZMFs (and many other high impedance headphones) with those same low impedance sources will sound muffled, as the voice coil is heavier and longer to get the high impedance. So if you plug the zmf into the same amp as a low impedance dynamic ofcourse the zmf will sound more damped, it literally is. This is also probably a big reason you liked the Caldera more of you listened to it on a similar amp, as the impedance and system is much lower and easier to driver with current vs higher voltage/impedance.


People think ZMFs sound best or are optimized for tubes because of this, which they aren't, they just need a lot of power without a super low damping factor for the 300 ohm output. They will change the tuning greatly and you also can alter the tuning slightly with different front meshes and pads.

I think what JM is going is awesome! I don't think derogatory comparisons are needed, as clearly the drivers and systems are very different for different audiences, and that's what's fun about audio!

We are creating easier drive headphones with lower impedance custom drivers as well as lesser priced planars that will have trickle down technology as well, which will be more similar to other lower impedance stuff out there.

Thanks guys.

 

[zach915m]

I have an XTC Closed. I'm probably gonna sell the verite. It's ridiculous how beautiful it is though.

If you just got the Ambered Camphor burl (from your earlier post it sounds like you've had both ZMFs for one day and the XTC for a month) - make sure you burn them in for about 300 hrs. I'm not saying this because I think you need to "brain burn in" but because these drivers are designed with adhesive and a thick/stiff rubber surround and without flexing the driver quite a bit you won't get to hear them in their final form. Planars don't really burn in as much but it's a necessity IMHO on our dynamic headphones.

 

[catom]

So if you plug the zmf into the same amp as a low impedance dynamic ofcourse the zmf will sound more damped, it literally is. This is also probably a big reason you liked the Caldera more of you listened to it on a similar amp, as the impedance and system is much lower and easier to driver with current vs higher voltage/impedance.

This is a very good point and I've heard that. I assume the ZMF booth at the last SoCal CanJam was setup with proper amps to drive the headphones though. The Caldera was sublime...and again, just funny enough, but I preferred the Eikon to the Veritie Closed by a mile. Maybe I'm weird

Certainly curious about what lower impedance ZMF headphones may bring!

 

[catom]

Can you rank all the ZMFs you've heard for me? I feel like all the reviewers on YouTube mislead me on the verites. I like the atriums so far but still not XTC level.

It's really a preference thing to be honest. For me my preferences were; Caledera, Eikon (which I guess isn't sold anymore), Atticus, Verite Closed, and then I guess Atrium, Aeolis and some others just started to lump in somewhere there after that. This certainly surprised me because I thought I would like the closed back ZMF moreso, but really it's the open back from ZMF that spoke to me.

I'm sure one day I'll end up with a ZMF headphone (they're gorgeous too and their looks would probably be 25% of my purchase decision if I'm being honest). Which one? Probably a Caldera if I can find a good deal on one. Otherwise I don't know, I'd have to revisit them to be honest. Cost is a big factor here though and let's put it this way - I was able to get a Meze 109 Pro and the XTC for less than the Caldera and it gives me a good variety of options for listening.

So given that cost, I think you have to try them for yourself. Preferably on similar gear that you own or your actual gear...Like it was mentioned, headphones can be source sensitive.

 

[zach915m]

This is a very good point and I've heard that. I assume the ZMF booth at the last SoCal CanJam was setup with proper amps to drive the headphones though. The Caldera was sublime...and again, just funny enough, but I preferred the Eikon to the Veritie Closed by a mile. Maybe I'm weird

Certainly curious about what lower impedance ZMF headphones may bring!

Well, posting finite statements about ANY headphone regardless of setup from a show condition probably should be posted with a disclaimer: "I heard these at a show for a few minutes in an extremely loud and busy room so YMMV"

There's no shame in liking any headphone more than another regardless of price! ZMF or otherwise!

And yes haha grass is always greener in the future!

 

[catom]

Well, posting finite statements about ANY headphone regardless of setup from a show condition probably should be posted with a disclaimer: "I heard these at a show for a few minutes in an extremely loud and busy room so YMMV"

There's no shame in liking any headphone more than another regardless of price! ZMF or otherwise!

And yes haha grass is always greener in the future!

Sure, but the room you had was quiet when I was there with about 6 people in the room. I mean I like your headphones. I also like JMs.

This thread is about the XTC. So I'm trying to stay on topic here and I think everyone else is just trying to compare and contrast things.

I don't think anyone was attacking ZMF headphones. I'm sensing some sort of insecurity here to the point it compelled you to post and defend your product when I don't think it needed any defending. You have a well respected and loved line of headphones. An entire line, not just one or two. Everyone has personal preferences and is entitled to their opinion.

If some dude likes XTC better than Verite and wants to sell their Verite...I don't know man, it's a preference. Or take it as something to consider. Market research. Maybe make a cheaper pair of headphones? Source premade cups as an option instead of having them made custom from expensive wood? I don't know. That's your thing and I think your headphones are gorgeous. Everyone wants that gorgeous wood, but some people would prefer putting their money into the sound more than the carpentry. Understandable. There's even a market for a company with 3d printed headphones (that also sound awesome).

It is possible that a product enters the market for significantly less money that provides competition. Such is life.

I think everyone here loves audio and generally owns multiple pairs of headphones. So I'm not sure how we ended up with all the defensive posts pulling the thread off topic, but ok. Let's at least recognize and appreciate that JM is doing great work and trying to start something here before we try to pour cold water on it. Let's also recognize a lesser known fact that he can't promote himself unless he pays head-fi, which is why you'll see an absence of comments from him.

All good? Everyone loves all the headphones. This is a safe space. Can we get back to describing the qualities of XTC? I'm curious what other kinds of tunings people are ending up with (sounds like there's a new one about) and what my next pair of headphones are going to be in this silly, fun, addiction

 

[zach915m]

I saw ZMF mentioned and saw a new owner who just received their ZMFs was very dis-satisfied. There's definitely some confusing nuance to ZMFs of which I described above, I hope it helps and will always try to clarify and help owners get what they seek from our stuff regarding chain/source, pads, mesh etc. Anyways - thank you again for trying our stuff and as mentioned earlier I think what JM is doing is very cool! The more good headphones the better the hobby is for all of us.

 

[saMWyz]

I would defend my product as well. These headphones have more time, brains, sweat into them than I can ever know. I have been listening to my new headphones every day and got a more powerful amp that make them sound better. I posted on first day impressions w/ the ZMFs after listening to the XTC the past month. I will be keeping my ZMFs and researching a high end Tube amp to invest in. I'm not gonna retract my comments because that was my honest thoughts on first listen with an insufficient powered amp. I'm not a well versed audiophile and definitely not gonna pretend like I know all the lingo to review anything. I could care less. I learned today that I have no business commenting in this community, and won't again. I will buy a caldera someday. Peace out!

 

[Buckeyedentite]

I would defend my product as well. These headphones have more time, brains, sweat into them than I can ever know. I have been listening to my new headphones every day and got a more powerful amp that make them sound better. I posted on first day impressions w/ the ZMFs after listening to the XTC the past month. I will be keeping my ZMFs and researching a high end Tube amp to invest in. I'm not gonna retract my comments because that was my honest thoughts on first listen with an insufficient powered amp. I'm not a well versed audiophile and definitely not gonna pretend like I know all the lingo to review anything. I could care less. I learned today that I have no business commenting in this community, and won't again. I will buy a caldera someday. Peace out!

I just wanted to make a quick clarification on here since John isn’t allowed to comment on his headphones. His biowool driver is 64 ohms and the beryllium driver can be ordered in 32, 64, or 300 ohms. So depending on what dac/amp you have, you can pick a driver that has good synergy with your chain. I have the biowool open and the beryllium closed and they both sound great on my solid state amps and my tube amp. I have rme adi2, hifiman ef400, rebel amp, and ampsandsound bigger ben.

 

[zach915m]

I would defend my product as well. These headphones have more time, brains, sweat into them than I can ever know. I have been listening to my new headphones every day and got a more powerful amp that make them sound better. I posted on first day impressions w/ the ZMFs after listening to the XTC the past month. I will be keeping my ZMFs and researching a high end Tube amp to invest in. I'm not gonna retract my comments because that was my honest thoughts on first listen with an insufficient powered amp. I'm not a well versed audiophile and definitely not gonna pretend like I know all the lingo to review anything. I could care less. I learned today that I have no business commenting in this community, and won't again. I will buy a caldera someday. Peace out!

Sent you a PM, I'm always happy to help you/anyone enjoy the hobby! There's absolutely nothing wrong with anything you stated! It's all about the journey.

 

[catom]

Speaking of amps, I recently got a Woo Audio WA6 tube amp and the XTC sounds awesome on the WA6.

That's the tl;dr version. Here's the story version with some details and caveats (don't just get an amp without expecting to change anything else like it's going to solve all your problems...it might, but it might not): I was driving the XTC (closed back) off a solid state THX amp for the most part before. The solid state amp is very clean and dynamic and a little edgey even. You can pick up a lot of details with the XTC and while inherently a dynamic warm headphone, it was revealing and emphasising the characteristics of the solid state amp even moreso (that is not to mean I dislike it on solid state - they will generally offer you a more dynamic presentation, which I like).

At a local meet I had the opportunity to try a few tube amps including a Zana Deux and a custom one someone built. It really blew me away as I cranked up the pot, that first reveal there with the XTC and a tube amp. I was hooked, but I also knew the $2k+ tube amps were out of my budget for the time being. Still, it had me looking and I was soon able to find the WA6 for a fantastic price used.

So we're hit with the ironic part of this hobby - diminishing returns. Would I get $1600+ more value from one of those amps? Probably not, but you absolutely can hear the difference even without comparing side by side. Would I love to have one? Heck yea. I may even get one eventually, but it'd be a luxury and starting with the WA6 was a good move.

I thought the XTC hit hard with the solid state amp, but wow does it slam with the tube amp. This may even be what some would consider too much of a good thing. Why? Well, the XTC closed is (again, what I asked for) a dynamic warm headphone. So it inherently is tuned to have more bass and there is a slight roll off on the high end.

...But is there really? Or is it perhaps simply overhsadowed by the bass? Remember, you can cover the bass ports and you can swap ear pads. Doing so just might surprise you with how much of a difference it can make. You just might find something you thought was lost.

The tube amp distorts things further in that warm direction. It also softens things. If you find a solid state amp too sharp or edgey, a tube amp may fix that for you. Though you run the risk of more roll off at the high end.

So I swapped pads (from the leather pads JM has to the fuzzy pads) with the tube amp and bingo. It toned down the bass slam a good bit and the high end can be heard better. Covering the bass ports even further reduces the bass. The perforated pads (not my fav) even more so. In fact, I might just be able to like the perforated pads with the tube amp.

Even with the leather pads, the bass isn't overdone for my tastes (well, depending on the music I'm listening to). Though I can definitely believe that it would be a bit too much slam for others. Again, you can adjust for that and I think this kinda evokes the JM brand here. This is a headphone designed steeped in customization. This is a familiar story with some smaller brands that have grown over the years of course (JM isn't the only one who started by modding headphones), but I'm not quite sure I've ever spent so much time adjusting things before. Talk about a journey.

I chose the WA6 over the WA3 because it has a switch for lower impedance headphones. Though I do have an Ifi IEMatch which helps A LOT. You can easily listen to many headphones on more powerful amps without having to worry so much about accidentally cranking up the volume. The WA6 is a SET, so I still may look for an OTL tube amp in the future.

So sure, amps can absolutely make a huge difference. I'm always careful not to use the "better" word here...Because it's not better really. It's just different. What we're all doing is hunting for the sound signature that resonates with us and isn't fatiguing. You don't need to spend thousands upon thousands to get it either, but it's funny that you'll often end up finding things with equipment you might not think to use.

 

[Mhog55]

For those who own one of the XTC models, how is the clamp force, tight, loose, somewhere in the middle? If I wanted to get wet and wild, are these going to go flying off my head?

 

[rlawry]

Well, I sit pretty still and the comfort and fit is about right.

 

[catom]

For those who own one of the XTC models, how is the clamp force, tight, loose, somewhere in the middle? If I wanted to get wet and wild, are these going to go flying off my head?

The metal band lets you adjust that a bit. I wouldn't jog with them. They are secure but not too tight. I did gently bend the band to reduce clamp force and it's fine. Though I may have a smaller head too.

 

[rieku321]

I recently acquired the XTC open with the biowool driver and the XTC closed with the beryllium driver, except the XTC closed is a slightly different version with larger cups that I believe is being called the XTC Squared. I will have to ask John again what all exactly is different about it compared to the standard version, but it definitely has larger cups. I believe the end result is even better resolution and detail. I must say I have been blown away by both of these headphones. I haven't done a lot of A/B comparisons against other headphones yet, because mostly I've just been enjoying them and getting to know their sound signatures before I start making any bold proclamations. I'm pretty certain however that they do compare very favorably with some of the best headphones I've heard. The only open backs I've owned are the 6XX, Arya, and Susvara, so I don't have a ton of experience with open back headphones, and it's kind of hard to compare dynamic headphones to planar magnetic ones, since they sound so different. My XTC open with the biowool driver doesn't have quite the clarity or resolution of a Susvara of course, but it can still be just as enjoyable, depending on what you're looking for in a headphone.
Closed backs, on the other hand, I've had more experience with, and my XTC closed with the beryllium driver is right up there with the best I've heard. A few of the others I have on hand to compare against include the modhouse argon mk3, ebony foxtex, audeze lcd-xc, sony mdr-z1r, sennheiser hd820, meze liric, kennerton gjallarhorn gh50 modded by John, and the kennerton rognir planar. I will try to do some A/B testing this weekend so I can add some thoughts on those specific comparisions.

How much were the XTC Squared's?