[vinnievidi]

HI
 
I was wondering if anyone could help me with some suggestions. 
 
I currently have the Sennheiser PX100 and am really happy with them, far more than I am with my Grado GS1000 (which never leave their box).  I am looking to replace the Grados with a new pair of headphones that have the basic sound signature of the PX100s, albeit more refined (re. clarity, etc.).  
 
I predominantly listen to classical, but I also listen to stuff like Coltrane, Nick Drake, Sigur Ros, etc.  
 
Budget-wise:  for either new or used HPs, I would like to stay below $400.  I figure that I may have factor into the equation an amp upgrade, but would rather not if it can be avoided (my current sources are a Total Airhead amp and a stereo receiver's HP jack).
 
[size=medium][size=medium][size=medium][size=medium]I know that I need to listen to the headphones myself to make a judgement, but if anyone could start me off in the right direction (so I know which models to start auditioning) it would be greatly appreciated.[/size][/size][/size][/size]

 

[vinnievidi]

The Denon AH D2000 were recommended to me as a suitable upgrade from the PX100.  Any thoughts on this?  Does anyone have experience with both of these?  Any thoughts on the HD595?
 
Thanks

 

[fidele-caput]

I've both (early PX100 and D2000) and love 'em to bits.. both are really comfy but the similarities end there. Sound sigs are quite different to my ears. For starters, the highs are more extended on the denons and less veil overall and naturally wider soundstage.  And the lack of muddy bass took me a while to adjust You should really listen to them both side by side and decide.. because IMHO they're quite different.
 
ps: never heard the 595 so I couldn't comment..

 

[Roger Strummer]

You might want to try the HD650, they share a mid bass focused frequency response, but are much much superior in every sense (save portability of course), along with rolled of highs. It is not as accentuated as in the PX100 (now THAT is a mid bass hump IMO), but I consider the HD650 are what would the PX100 would be if they went to college and take also a couple of phd's in music reproduction, so they would be worth trying if you enjoy the PX100.

 

[vinnievidi]

Thanks for the information! 
 
RE. the Denon D2000: 
I was going by the advice of one of the sales reps at HeadRoom.  Having not heard the Denons before I thought that I'd give them a try.  I have a pair on the way (I was able to get a them barely out of the box for $150).  Despite your thoughts on the sound signature (being quite different from the PX100), it is good to know that you would recommend them to a PX100 fan.   
 
RE. the HD650:
I have always been a little skittish about the 650 after reading about the 'veil' and their power requirements.  But seeing as I am open to honest suggestions at the moment, maybe I'll try to track down a used pair of HD650 so I can compare them side-by-side with the Denons.  Does the 'veil' truly clear up with a cable upgrade?
 
I know that the D2000 and HD650 will sound quite dissimilar but who knows, maybe I'll finally end up with a pair (or two pairs) that I like and I can stop searching for headphones.  I guess that I should also start looking more seriously into an amp upgrade though.  Any thoughts on a good inexpensive amp that will complement the 650s and D2000 (approx. $300 new/used)?  I was looking at a Little Dot (the solid state model) or the HeadRoom micro.
 
(Jeez... I should also remember to post the Grado GS1K in the sales forum to help fund this experiment...)
 
Sorry for my naïvety and all the questions.
 
Thanks again.   

 

[Roger Strummer]

Quote:

 
 
RE. the HD650:
I have always been a little skittish about the 650 after reading about the 'veil' and their power requirements.  But seeing as I am open to honest suggestions at the moment, maybe I'll try to track down a used pair of HD650 so I can compare them side-by-side with the Denons.  Does the 'veil' truly clear up with a cable upgrade?
 

 
 
I have both the HD650 and the PX100 (which I only use when I exercise now), and IME if you don't find the PX100 veiled or particularly rolled off in the trebble the HD650 won't bother you at all, if anything they are more extended in the highs than the PX100 (or alternatively said, less veiled), but if you want something a little less dark and with the same Senn sound try the HD600, although those are farther from the PX100 sound than the 650.

 

[vinnievidi]

Ok.  Do you think that they will be OK straight from an AV receiver for the time being, or do you think that they will absolutely need an amp?

 

[vinnievidi]

Thanks again for the response.
 
Actually, I don't find the PX100 too dark.  Sure they are not as bright as my Grados, but like I said in the OP, I seem to like the PX100 much more than the GS1000s.  
 
I just purchased a pair of HD650 (w/ Cardas cable).  When they arrive later in the week I will be able to do a comparison between the PX100, D2000, and HD650.  Maybe I will pull the GS1000 out of the closet for the comparison.  
 
Hopefully my receiver is up to the task...

 

[vinnievidi]

I did an A/B comparison with the D2000 and the HD650 (with Cardas cable) and ended up keeping the 650.   Ultimately, the 650 is a much closer match to the PX100 than the D2000.  The D2000 are great but not what I was looking for.  I actually don't know why the guy at Headroom suggested the D2000 over the 650.  
 
(NOTE:  This was the first A/B comparison I've ever done.  All of my comments below are based on my impressions of the D2000 and HD650 straight from the headphone jack of a vintage Pioneer receiver connected to a Pro-Ject USB DAC and an iMac.  Though even with a proper headphone amp, I do think that the results would have been similar) 
 
 
 
The soundstage between the 650 and D2000 seemed about the same; with a slight advantage to the Sennheiser (probably due to the open back drivers).  Despite their lack of detail compared to the 650, the D2000's sound quality is really exceptional for the price point. They are a fun set of headphones, and totally beat the 650 for rock and electronic listening—they appear to be much quicker and are surely much more exciting (drums really have a visceral slam and they go super deep, which is great for movie watching).  The D2000 are fine with classical and jazz recordings, but their V'shaped mid-scoop made me appreciate the 650s more when listening to acoustic and stringed instruments.  The D2000 present vocals on rock recordings perfectly fine—no complaints there—but don't do such a great job with opera or jazz vocals, which sound a bit constrained (if that term makes any sense here).  I don't know why this is... maybe it has to do with the way the genres are recorded and mastered.    

 

The 650 present the mid frequencies more naturally— they are very similar to the PX100 in this regard, but 100-times more clear and focused.  Instruments have more depth and detail with the 650s: you really can hear the woodiness of cellos and violins; you can hear the different harmonics in a distorted guitar chord; drums, while not having the same slam as the D2000, sound more airy; and you can hear more of the bass growl in rock recordings.  With the Sennshisers, opera vocal seem to sound more life-like and "live".   Also, the highs are not as sharp as with the D2000.  Though slightly rolled off at the extremes, the highs sound like being at a live concert hall.  Since I listen mainly to classical and symphonic music, these factors are predominantly what I based my decision on.  

 

I don't know too much about voltage and current in regards to ohm ratings, but oddly, out of the receiver, the D2000 (which is rated at 25ohms and 106 bd/mW) required 50-75% more volume to match the output of the HD650 (which is rated at 300ohms and 103 db).   

 

In the end, I actually think that the 650 and D2000 are too different to be directly compared (and not because of cost).  Both do certain things better than the other and neither do everything perfectly: the D2000's bass has a really fantastic deep impact, but it's not as defined as the 650; whereas the HD650's mids and highs are more natural, but can lack in energy and excitement.   

 

The D2000 are surely a better set of headphones than the PX1000, but for my immediate purpose they didn't offer the sound signature I was after.  On the other hand, the 650 are really on the money.  They are very close to the PX100 but much more refined and spacious.  I think that once I upgrade to a better amp, I will appreciate them even more.

 

 

Thanks for all the advice.