The 394II shows as discontinued on the Mass-Kobo website. If Mimic is giving you a discount, I would recommend going for the 465 if you can.
MASS-Kobo Model 465 Is In The House!
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unfitstew
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Been using the Sus and Tungsten on the 465 since I got it thursday. I guess this is my "update/impressions" with those two headphones.
Susvara on it is so incredibly clean and fluid that in well recorded tracks it rarely ever sounds congested. Classical especially shines in 465 and Sus combo. It gives Sus a nice fullness in bass. It is also quite punchy on it. Vocals are sweet (midrange and vocals have always been my fav part of Sus). Basically the best I have heard the Sus so far.
Tungsten is really good on it too. Its bass is well textured, nimble and punchy. Its mids shine through especially its intimate vocals. Treble is about as good as I have heard it. Will need more time to go into more details for that tho.
465 to me sounds like a warm and slightly lush amp. Really good. Also Empy 2 was surprisingly good on it.
Susvara on it is so incredibly clean and fluid that in well recorded tracks it rarely ever sounds congested. Classical especially shines in 465 and Sus combo. It gives Sus a nice fullness in bass. It is also quite punchy on it. Vocals are sweet (midrange and vocals have always been my fav part of Sus). Basically the best I have heard the Sus so far.
Tungsten is really good on it too. Its bass is well textured, nimble and punchy. Its mids shine through especially its intimate vocals. Treble is about as good as I have heard it. Will need more time to go into more details for that tho.
465 to me sounds like a warm and slightly lush amp. Really good. Also Empy 2 was surprisingly good on it.
avin13
New Head-Fier
I noticed that you have atrium close and caldera how is the pairing with those headphone?
avin13
New Head-Fier
According to Mimic there is a singular part that is no longer being available. Masuda is working on finding a replacement so he can continue selling the 394ll. Mimic says it should be available again q4 this year.
My only real hesitation with going 465 is I’m new to the hobby. Started November last year. Did a bunch of research in summer of 2023, waited till SoCal camjam went both days, waited till zmf November. Figure this year I work in amps/dac and now I’m in a lil unique scenario.
So far I’m rocking my headphones with Questyle M15
I originally was gonna go for a holo set up but being my main listening station will be my desk. It was the size that made me deter from it. Since I originally planned on getting a tube amp as well.
so I either go all in on a 465 or go with original plan buy a aegis next month. Wait for my 394ll to come in end of year.
Looking at the pricing, if I have it right, you can get both for $7,000 or so? Going that way and checking out the Aegis makes sense. Or Aegis only and wait till you can audition anything else.
unfitstew
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Haven't used them on it yet. Will do soon when I can and get back to you.
avin13
New Head-Fier
Within that range, yes. To my understanding zmf headphones doesn’t scale the same way like the Susvara or Tungsten. I’ve been genuinely happy with the M15 for now. I’m wondering if 465 is “over kill” for my Caldera/AC.
@unfitstew whenever that chance comes up. If you could please share your thoughts on how much an improvement the 465 compared to the bliss I appreciate it. Thank you
Bought the 394ll if I ever decided to buy a Susvara/Tungsten. To my understanding Susvara pairs very well with the 394ll. Haven’t looked too deep on how it does with Tungsten.
Fox88
Head-Fier
As someone who has the 465 and the AC I wouldn't buy it just for ZMF HPs. It sounds better but not significantly. It punches harder and to my ears it has a bigger soundstage, better detail and imaging.
Now, if you have an Empyrean II, Susvara, 1266, etc. Headphones that scale then by all means.
Hope this helps
avin13
New Head-Fier
Hey Fox it does help out greatly. I really appreciate the response. Reassuring. I’ll stick with my original plan then. Thank you!
Figured I would keep you posted as I listen and compare from time to time. I might do a formal review at some point, so I do take notes. This is from April 28th.
April 28, 2024
The Mass-Kobo 465 now has now had roughly 170 hours of break-in time on it so I thought I would make a comparison with my Holo Audio Bliss. Both are being driven directly by my Holo Audio May DAC. The Bliss is connected via RCA input and Audioquest cables and the MK465 is connected by inexpensive Benchmark XLR Microphone cables. Both are volume matched as best I can by both iPhone app and by ear to make sure.
I used Rhapsody In Blue for this brief comparison from the album:
Gershwin by Grofe: Original Orchestrations and Arrangements
On the first 50 seconds or so of the intro the MK465 placed a bit more emphasis on the clarinet. It also has a bit more body. Both excellent though.
The bass on the Bliss sounded more powerful yet I was preferring the bass on the 465, why? Listening again I realized there was more to the bass of the 465. It sounded a bit deeper.
At around 1:00 when the piano and orchestra join in, they are clearer and richer in tone.
At 1:20 or so when the piano comes in as the main instrument, it sounds “grander” for lack of a better adjective. It sounds simultaneously clearer and yet with a beautiful texture to the notes.
Jumping ahead to about 4:00 in and beyond there seems to be a touch more detail presented by the 465. Not more, just more noticeable? It is like this section has a sheen on it, but not colored. Just prettier. By the way I love the Bliss as well. I keep getting caught listening to it and going way past what I wanted to compare. Yet, the bass drive is stronger on the 465 which is a continued theme of its presentation.
At 7:40 both do a great job with the orchestra and piano playing at the same time and then transitioning to solo piano.
At 9:37 the piano begins to transition to the main theme with its piano runs. The treble here seems higher on the MK465 than the Bliss. Both are excellent. Take your pick as to what you prefer.
As the main theme takes over and there is the interplay with the orchestra and piano and at 11:00 the violins which have a nicer sheen on the 465. This was so slight that I could only tell on direct comparison.
The build and then crescendo at 14:07 is a touch crisper on the 465.
The final crescendos and ending are fabulous on both. Maybe a bit more detail on the 465.
Excellent presentations by both. Not the slam dunk I expected, but there are aspects to the 465 that do show up as superior. That said, these are hair differences to my ears with the Bliss proving it is a TOTL amp in its own right. We will see how things change as it gets more hours.
April 28, 2024
The Mass-Kobo 465 now has now had roughly 170 hours of break-in time on it so I thought I would make a comparison with my Holo Audio Bliss. Both are being driven directly by my Holo Audio May DAC. The Bliss is connected via RCA input and Audioquest cables and the MK465 is connected by inexpensive Benchmark XLR Microphone cables. Both are volume matched as best I can by both iPhone app and by ear to make sure.
I used Rhapsody In Blue for this brief comparison from the album:
Gershwin by Grofe: Original Orchestrations and Arrangements
On the first 50 seconds or so of the intro the MK465 placed a bit more emphasis on the clarinet. It also has a bit more body. Both excellent though.
The bass on the Bliss sounded more powerful yet I was preferring the bass on the 465, why? Listening again I realized there was more to the bass of the 465. It sounded a bit deeper.
At around 1:00 when the piano and orchestra join in, they are clearer and richer in tone.
At 1:20 or so when the piano comes in as the main instrument, it sounds “grander” for lack of a better adjective. It sounds simultaneously clearer and yet with a beautiful texture to the notes.
Jumping ahead to about 4:00 in and beyond there seems to be a touch more detail presented by the 465. Not more, just more noticeable? It is like this section has a sheen on it, but not colored. Just prettier. By the way I love the Bliss as well. I keep getting caught listening to it and going way past what I wanted to compare. Yet, the bass drive is stronger on the 465 which is a continued theme of its presentation.
At 7:40 both do a great job with the orchestra and piano playing at the same time and then transitioning to solo piano.
At 9:37 the piano begins to transition to the main theme with its piano runs. The treble here seems higher on the MK465 than the Bliss. Both are excellent. Take your pick as to what you prefer.
As the main theme takes over and there is the interplay with the orchestra and piano and at 11:00 the violins which have a nicer sheen on the 465. This was so slight that I could only tell on direct comparison.
The build and then crescendo at 14:07 is a touch crisper on the 465.
The final crescendos and ending are fabulous on both. Maybe a bit more detail on the 465.
Excellent presentations by both. Not the slam dunk I expected, but there are aspects to the 465 that do show up as superior. That said, these are hair differences to my ears with the Bliss proving it is a TOTL amp in its own right. We will see how things change as it gets more hours.
aublumberg
New Head-Fier
How does the 465 compare to your HM1 please?
psy472
500+ Head-Fier
Just to chime in even though I don’t have the MK465, I’m very thankful for all the reviews you all been providing. The reviews here saved me a good 15K since most of what is stated here is what I got from my Flux Mentor dual stack anyway. I may still try out the 394ii in the future.
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unfitstew
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You should! The 394ii is a step up from the bliss. It is still a really good amp.
unfitstew
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HM1 to me is the best rendition of a fully neutral SS amp that I have heard. HM1 has some of the best control on the bass/drivers I have heard. Great incisiveness and transients. Fantastic detail. Features that the 465 can't match (eq knobs, soundstage knob, dual input, etc.)
465 in comparision is basically the next level above HM1 into the category of performance that AIC-10 and equivelent is. 465 has even better control over the bass and drivers than the HM1. Has better depth in the soundstage (albeit a bit less wide soundstage) than HM1. It isn't neutral like the HM1. Has a quite warm and lush sound to it that bridges the sound of SS and a good colored tube amps.
It also has really good instrument seperation. 465 is the cleanest I have heard Sus sound. Though if wanting absolute best out of say 1266 TC AIC-10 is the way to go for that HP.
Don't get me wrong though. Paying the $8k more for 465 to get that extra bit of performance plus a more organic lush sound is going to be up to the person. HM1 is fantastic and much cheaper (I wouldn't call $9k cheap). I will say 465 can be too lush for some HP. Friend doesn't like Valkyria on it because it is too lush for that HP.
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Some additional notes.
Don’t You Want Me / Tainted Love by the Stella Starlight Trio (Jazz)
The vocals have a beautiful timbre. Very real and present. The bass is perfect in the background and to drive the rhythm. You can hear the details of her working the bass strings.
The biggest difference between the 465 and Bliss is that the bass notes expand deeper at times on the 465 (essentially the sustain following the transient, but also a further expansion of the bass itself on this track).
I love the vocals on both. There is a bit more warmth in her voice on the 465 and a touch weightier. Yet, the Bliss has beautiful clarity.
I lowered the volume levels to see how they would react (I typically listen in the 70’s or so) and both kept their sound intact.
Then, playing both softly at about 46DB the interplay between her voice and the bass she plays at 58 seconds into the track is clearer on the 465. Even softly you want to key in on the music as it distracts you from what you are doing. And her vocals sound better (vs the Bliss) on the 465 at this low level.
Still at this soft volume level, now listening to Tainted Love the finger snaps at the beginning of the track are clearer on the 465. It is a cool effect on both throughout the track, but the 465 gives them a presence that works much better.
Don’t You Want Me / Tainted Love by the Stella Starlight Trio (Jazz)
The vocals have a beautiful timbre. Very real and present. The bass is perfect in the background and to drive the rhythm. You can hear the details of her working the bass strings.
The biggest difference between the 465 and Bliss is that the bass notes expand deeper at times on the 465 (essentially the sustain following the transient, but also a further expansion of the bass itself on this track).
I love the vocals on both. There is a bit more warmth in her voice on the 465 and a touch weightier. Yet, the Bliss has beautiful clarity.
I lowered the volume levels to see how they would react (I typically listen in the 70’s or so) and both kept their sound intact.
Then, playing both softly at about 46DB the interplay between her voice and the bass she plays at 58 seconds into the track is clearer on the 465. Even softly you want to key in on the music as it distracts you from what you are doing. And her vocals sound better (vs the Bliss) on the 465 at this low level.
Still at this soft volume level, now listening to Tainted Love the finger snaps at the beginning of the track are clearer on the 465. It is a cool effect on both throughout the track, but the 465 gives them a presence that works much better.
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