[Loftprojection]

I heard back from Linear Tube Audio and they no longer support MHDT Labs.
They suggested a local technician to replace the USB chip.

It's too bad, they propably moved out of this market because they have their own tube R2R DAC coming in February. It's a bit more expensive than an Orchid but it should also sound a bit better, they have quite a good reputation with their amps. I would probably consider it if I ever zap my Orchid, hopefully it never happens since I still love it!

It's amazing to see that a somewhat old and basic design like the Orchid is still providing competitive and very satisfying sound.

 

[Pharmaboy]

I heard back from Linear Tube Audio and they no longer support MHDT Labs.
They suggested a local technician to replace the USB chip.

Damn! Sorry to hear that. Those people were good to me...

Just checked MHDT Labs' website, and it's true--they've taken all sales & service in-house. So you can still get service, and it's probably very good service--but w/lots of shipping cost mixed in.

 

[Pharmaboy]

It's too bad, they propably moved out of this market because they have their own tube R2R DAC coming in February. It's a bit more expensive than an Orchid but it should also sound a bit better, they have quite a good reputation with their amps. I would probably consider it if I ever zap my Orchid, hopefully it never happens since I still love it!

It's amazing to see that a somewhat old and basic design like the Orchid is still providing competitive and very satisfying sound.

I was just reading about the Aero. $3,600 is out of my budget. I'm also concerned about the ZOTL feature of the design--LTA tubed preamps and amps are renowned for very neutral sound: very neutral "for a tube design," and very neutral, period.

In other words, sounding nothing at all like the Orchid (the sound of which I love).

'We shall see," said the blind man.

 

[JerseyD]

I was just reading about the Aero. $3,600 is out of my budget. I'm also concerned about the ZOTL feature of the design--LTA tubed preamps and amps are renowned for very neutral sound: very neutral "for a tube design," and very neutral, period.

In other words, sounding nothing at all like the Orchid (the sound of which I love).

'We shall see," said the blind man.

While I have never heard either, isn't the Border Patrol DAC a similar design to the Orchid?

 

[wape hatson]

Damn! Sorry to hear that. Those people were good to me...

Just checked MHDT Labs' website, and it's true--they've taken all sales & service in-house. So you can still get service, and it's probably very good service--but w/lots of shipping cost mixed in.

I will send more emails
Thanks for the advice though

 

[Pharmaboy]

While I have never heard either, isn't the Border Patrol DAC a similar design to the Orchid?

They look similar on the surface but are quite different "under the hood":

• Orchid uses the Philips TD1541a R2R chip, which was Philips best chip decades ago; it was used in their higher end stuff (or that of other manufacturers who bought the chip). The BP uses the Philips TD1543 R2R chip, which was their stepdown chip used in mass market stuff. I take this "different chip" thing with a grain of salt: chips don't make or break great DACs...implementation does.
• The Orchid decodes as high as 24 bits/192 kHz while the BP decodes up to 24 bits/96 kHz
• The Orchid comes with 4 inputs (RCA coax; BNC coax; toslink; USB). The BP comes with your choice of 2 of those inputs, but not all four
• The Orchid's tube is used in a tube buffer circuit, meaning that while the tube isn't amplifying the signal, it is definitely contributing to it sonically (tube rolling is a real thing with the Orchid). The BP comes with an EZ80 tube rectifier which can be switched in or out of the power supply (that's unique); its effect is described as slight but audible. I'm guessing this tube rectifier thing is somewhat less audible than a really great tube in the Orchid's tube buffer--but just a guess
• The Orchid has no purchasable upgrades, while the Border Patrol can be ordered w/upgraded wiring and capacitors for more $$

I've read enough reviews of the Border Patrol to know that reviewers like it. Some praise it highly. Several reviewers commented on the bass being either "neutral" (reviewer-speak for not elevated) or not equal to the bass of other DACs they compare it to. I can't verify that because I never heard the Border Patrol. However, I can tell you the Orchid, at least with the right NOS tube, puts out very satisfactory bass, indeed. Perhaps not hitting the last few Hz in the sub-bass, as delta-sigma DACs often do, but the level and quality of the bass are very pleasing IMO (I have compared the Orchid to a couple other NOS DACs).

 

[Loftprojection]

I remember looking at the Border Patrol and another one quite a bit more expensive when I bought my Orchid several years ago. I read all I could find but it’s a private discussion with pro reviewer from a big name magazine that convinced me to go with the Orchid. He was really right on with the things he said to me once I finally got to ear the Orchid. If I had to buy another DAC right now in the less then $2000 market I would buy another Orchid. Some modern higher priced tubed R2R DAC are probably better sounding but for the price I think Orchid is still hard to beat if you love that type of sweet mellow non fatiguing sound signature.

 

[fcdvpds]

April 2024 will be 5 years since I purchased my mhdt Atalntis DAC...I ve been using it almost daily since then.
I can't praise this dac enough...the list of DACs that passed through my system in the past 10 years is kind off long but I always come back to the Atlantis with WE tube. Briefly:
1) Audio Note Dac 1.1x Signature. Amazing DAC but sonically it felt so so similar to the Atlantis, I hardly could tell them apart. Maybe in some instances just a hair better than the Atlantis but it is really splitting hairs. Since my unit was 22 years old, and not very flexible in terms of inputs, I let it part to other user and kept the Atlantis.
2) Audial S4...sold to a very nice guy about 6 months ago...he is super happy with it.. I really wanted to love this dac, it seemed the obvious upgrade to the mhdt but in the end I felt the sound signature was too upfront and it was reckless with certain albums. I kept it for 3 years...moved it back to my system from time to time but never managed to get used to it. The mhdt always sound more musical to my ears.
3) Bryston BDA-3. I tried this one because it measures very good and has so many outstanding review. Maybe I am loosing something with my R2R DACs. The Bryson actually sounds quite good. I couldn't find any fault...but still I felt the mhdt sounded better. In particular the soundstage the realism...the voices and instruments feel inside my room in a way the Bryson could not match...ended up selling it.
4) Holo Audio Spring 2 Level 2. Another DAC with super reviews. this was going to be the one bringing my system one step up. Wrong. The dac sounded boring to me. It was very easy to listen to it. Never aggressive, never fatiguing, never bright, super smooth and super boring! It intrigued me so much that I had to bring my audiophile buddies for an audition...I learned from them that the dac was slow and that's why it felt boring. Sold.
5) MERASON Frerot DAC + Matching Linear Power Supply. This one was a big surprise. It sounds very very good. It stayed in my system for a while. It's not R2R dac but it has a very similar sound signature to the Atlantis. It feels somehow more linear. I really liked it...until I decicded to bring the Atlantis back. Wider soundstage, voices had more presence, similar tonality but just doing everything a little bit better. More dynamic. Will sell the Merason soon, but it is a very nice dac, just not as good as the Atlantis.
6) MHDT Orchid 69SE with the double crown TDA chip. Ok, this was going to be it. If no other brand can beat the Atlantis let me just try to move up the ladder within mhdt. I tried NOS Mullard and Philipps Tubes. The Orchid sounded more linear and accurate than the Atlantis. It was also more neutral. Moving back and forth between the two I found the Atlantis more analogue and musical but my biggest issue with the Orchid SE was the build quality. The Atlantis feels well built, the Orchid felt rough around the corners. The Atlantis also has better sound stage, confirmed by the guy that purchased the Orchid. He came to my apartment to try the unit and after enjoying it for a while and confirming the purchase, he asked me if he could audit the Atlantis. Boom. First thing he said was the soundstage was better in the Atlantis. Also didn't look that nice in my rack and has some very strong LED lights that I didn't appreciate. Gone.
7) Abbas Audio DAC U SE. Ok this one will stay around, needs more listening...
8) Audiobyte VOX DAC...This was a surprise and a no contest. From everything I tried this was the first DAC that was clearly superior to the mhdt. It just does everything better. It's equally musical but more refined, bigger soundstage, specially depth, etc. It is just in another level. But hey, at 4,200usd$...
9) Audio Note CD Zero/II. I use it a cd transport / source but since it also has analogue out...it sounds mediocre. It has some of the good traits of R2R but the resolution is limited and the background is noisy. It doesn't sound bad at all but not good enough that I could consider it an option.

Rest of my system:
Sources: Audio Note CD zero/II, Audio Note CDT Two/II, Magna Mano Ultra MK3
Amplifiers: Luxman mq-88uc and Sugden A21 Signature
Speakers: Chartwell LS3/5a
Cables: Auditorium 23 inter connects and speaker cables, Nordost Valhalla & Audio Note Pallas (digital), Nordost Heimdall 2 (power)

 

[Tchu1337]

I'm guessing the MHDT site is affected by some hosting issue. They are still around, right?

 

[alekc]

April 2024 will be 5 years since I purchased my mhdt Atalntis DAC...I ve been using it almost daily since then.
I can't praise this dac enough...the list of DACs that passed through my system in the past 10 years is kind off long but I always come back to the Atlantis with WE tube. Briefly:
1) Audio Note Dac 1.1x Signature. Amazing DAC but sonically it felt so so similar to the Atlantis, I hardly could tell them apart. Maybe in some instances just a hair better than the Atlantis but it is really splitting hairs. Since my unit was 22 years old, and not very flexible in terms of inputs, I let it part to other user and kept the Atlantis.
2) Audial S4...sold to a very nice guy about 6 months ago...he is super happy with it.. I really wanted to love this dac, it seemed the obvious upgrade to the mhdt but in the end I felt the sound signature was too upfront and it was reckless with certain albums. I kept it for 3 years...moved it back to my system from time to time but never managed to get used to it. The mhdt always sound more musical to my ears.
3) Bryston BDA-3. I tried this one because it measures very good and has so many outstanding review. Maybe I am loosing something with my R2R DACs. The Bryson actually sounds quite good. I couldn't find any fault...but still I felt the mhdt sounded better. In particular the soundstage the realism...the voices and instruments feel inside my room in a way the Bryson could not match...ended up selling it.
4) Holo Audio Spring 2 Level 2. Another DAC with super reviews. this was going to be the one bringing my system one step up. Wrong. The dac sounded boring to me. It was very easy to listen to it. Never aggressive, never fatiguing, never bright, super smooth and super boring! It intrigued me so much that I had to bring my audiophile buddies for an audition...I learned from them that the dac was slow and that's why it felt boring. Sold.
5) MERASON Frerot DAC + Matching Linear Power Supply. This one was a big surprise. It sounds very very good. It stayed in my system for a while. It's not R2R dac but it has a very similar sound signature to the Atlantis. It feels somehow more linear. I really liked it...until I decicded to bring the Atlantis back. Wider soundstage, voices had more presence, similar tonality but just doing everything a little bit better. More dynamic. Will sell the Merason soon, but it is a very nice dac, just not as good as the Atlantis.
6) MHDT Orchid 69SE with the double crown TDA chip. Ok, this was going to be it. If no other brand can beat the Atlantis let me just try to move up the ladder within mhdt. I tried NOS Mullard and Philipps Tubes. The Orchid sounded more linear and accurate than the Atlantis. It was also more neutral. Moving back and forth between the two I found the Atlantis more analogue and musical but my biggest issue with the Orchid SE was the build quality. The Atlantis feels well built, the Orchid felt rough around the corners. The Atlantis also has better sound stage, confirmed by the guy that purchased the Orchid. He came to my apartment to try the unit and after enjoying it for a while and confirming the purchase, he asked me if he could audit the Atlantis. Boom. First thing he said was the soundstage was better in the Atlantis. Also didn't look that nice in my rack and has some very strong LED lights that I didn't appreciate. Gone.
7) Abbas Audio DAC U SE. Ok this one will stay around, needs more listening...
8) Audiobyte VOX DAC...This was a surprise and a no contest. From everything I tried this was the first DAC that was clearly superior to the mhdt. It just does everything better. It's equally musical but more refined, bigger soundstage, specially depth, etc. It is just in another level. But hey, at 4,200usd$...
9) Audio Note CD Zero/II. I use it a cd transport / source but since it also has analogue out...it sounds mediocre. It has some of the good traits of R2R but the resolution is limited and the background is noisy. It doesn't sound bad at all but not good enough that I could consider it an option.

Rest of my system:
Sources: Audio Note CD zero/II, Audio Note CDT Two/II, Magna Mano Ultra MK3
Amplifiers: Luxman mq-88uc and Sugden A21 Signature
Speakers: Chartwell LS3/5a
Cables: Auditorium 23 inter connects and speaker cables, Nordost Valhalla & Audio Note Pallas (digital), Nordost Heimdall 2 (power)

@fcdvpds looks like to me you have found your perfect dac, no need to change/upgarde/tweak it - you are one lucky man, one of very few who can enjoy music instead of listening to the audio equipment all day long

As a side note: thank you for interesting comparison. It seems that Merason based on Burr-Brown is the one that was near your Atlantis, I've been considering for some time together with Lab12 since my 2 attempts to buy MHDT dac in Europe failed.

 

[Loftprojection]

6) MHDT Orchid 69SE with the double crown TDA chip. Ok, this was going to be it. If no other brand can beat the Atlantis let me just try to move up the ladder within mhdt. I tried NOS Mullard and Philipps Tubes. The Orchid sounded more linear and accurate than the Atlantis. It was also more neutral. Moving back and forth between the two I found the Atlantis more analogue and musical but my biggest issue with the Orchid SE was the build quality. The Atlantis feels well built, the Orchid felt rough around the corners. The Atlantis also has better sound stage, confirmed by the guy that purchased the Orchid. He came to my apartment to try the unit and after enjoying it for a while and confirming the purchase, he asked me if he could audit the Atlantis. Boom. First thing he said was the soundstage was better in the Atlantis. Also didn't look that nice in my rack and has some very strong LED lights that I didn't appreciate. Gone.

If I may suggest, it could be that double crown chip. I own the original Orchid for many years now and feel the same as you with your Atlantis. I don't have the budget to try out many dacs like you did but through the years I've never heard anything nicer then the Orchid.

A few years ago there was some talk here about the double crown chip, how great it is... So I thought maybe I could improve my Orchid with one of those chips since mine has the original. Well I don't remember exactly how much I paid for this stupid chip but I ended up re-installing the original chip because it made my Orchid sound less smooth and analog. The other thing is the tubes you tried in your Orchid, the WE396A is the one to use. I tried a multitude of tubes, expensive ones, and nothing beats the WE396A, which also happens to be the preferred listed by MHDT.

Anyway, maybe you could give the Orchid another try!

BTW, thanks for all this info on the different DACs you tried. Every once in a while I have an urge to buy a new dac and reading you comforted me that I can spend my money on other goodies!

 

[Pharmaboy]

If I may suggest, it could be that double crown chip. I own the original Orchid for many years now and feel the same as you with your Atlantis. I don't have the budget to try out many dacs like you did but through the years I've never heard anything nicer then the Orchid.

A few years ago there was some talk here about the double crown chip, how great it is... So I thought maybe I could improve my Orchid with one of those chips since mine has the original. Well I don't remember exactly how much I paid for this stupid chip but I ended up re-installing the original chip because it made my Orchid sound less smooth and analog. The other thing is the tubes you tried in your Orchid, the WE396A is the one to use. I tried a multitude of tubes, expensive ones, and nothing beats the WE396A, which also happens to be the preferred listed by MHDT.

Anyway, maybe you could give the Orchid another try!

BTW, thanks for all this info on the different DACs you tried. Every once in a while I have an urge to buy a new dac and reading you comforted me that I can spend my money on other goodies!

At least to my ears (treble averse & always welcoming musicality), the MHDT Labs Orchid with my favorite buffer tube, the Mullard CV5331 (1964), beats every other DAC I own or owned.

I have 2 other NOS DACs here, one of which costs nearly 3x what the Orchid did. They're both quite nice in their respective ways, but neither betters the Orchid when installed in my main system, a more demanding test because it has big 2-way speakers, a powered sub and electronic crossover, as well as headphone amps.

I love the Orchid!

 

[David222]

If I may suggest, it could be that double crown chip. I own the original Orchid for many years now and feel the same as you with your Atlantis. I don't have the budget to try out many dacs like you did but through the years I've never heard anything nicer then the Orchid.

A few years ago there was some talk here about the double crown chip, how great it is... So I thought maybe I could improve my Orchid with one of those chips since mine has the original. Well I don't remember exactly how much I paid for this stupid chip but I ended up re-installing the original chip because it made my Orchid sound less smooth and analog. The other thing is the tubes you tried in your Orchid, the WE396A is the one to use. I tried a multitude of tubes, expensive ones, and nothing beats the WE396A, which also happens to be the preferred listed by MHDT.

Anyway, maybe you could give the Orchid another try!

BTW, thanks for all this info on the different DACs you tried. Every once in a while I have an urge to buy a new dac and reading you comforted me that I can spend my money on other goodies!

Did you purchase you "crown" chip from ebay ?

 

[Loftprojection]

Did you purchase you "crown" chip from ebay ?

I did!

 

[David222]

I did!

Yes, of course you did. You bought a fake chip off eBay.

And, blaming the fake plastic chip for not sounding good (analog) - seems silly to me.