Yes, i've been using it as an amp for my phone recently and it makes the audio cleaner. Not sure how it would do as an amp for other dap's though, i've heard of other users experiencing difficulties when using it as an amp for other sources. Not that i have tried though.
New- Zishan Z1 DSD player thread
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Does changing the capacitors on the z1 greatly improve the sound? What kind of capacitors would be okay for it? Sorry i'm a newbie to modding and the hobby in general
I've seen people using nichicon and elna silmic capacitors, how would i know if the capacitors are compatible?
I've seen people using nichicon and elna silmic capacitors, how would i know if the capacitors are compatible?
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I changed the stock opamp of the Z1 for a Muses 8920, sound changes a bit. What I am hearing is bass a bit more pronounced, maybe vocals a bit smoother, less raspy or grainy.
Then I changed the opamp for a LME49720HA (with a dip socket), and this one sounds distorted in the mid range, with my Grado SR80 (32 ohm), and Sennheiser HD560S (120 ohm).
Can someone confirm this behaviour? I am not sure if the LME is fake, the text is upside down compared to the pin 1 notch. Text is A92ACE1, LME49720HA. I bought it from a local electronic store.
I will go back to Muses 8920 and keep that for a few days, don't know what I miss with the LME.
Then I changed the opamp for a LME49720HA (with a dip socket), and this one sounds distorted in the mid range, with my Grado SR80 (32 ohm), and Sennheiser HD560S (120 ohm).
Can someone confirm this behaviour? I am not sure if the LME is fake, the text is upside down compared to the pin 1 notch. Text is A92ACE1, LME49720HA. I bought it from a local electronic store.
I will go back to Muses 8920 and keep that for a few days, don't know what I miss with the LME.
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matula
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raabje, I bought mine from ebay user shenglongsi, and it doesn't sound distorted to me. (can't check what's written on it because it's full of thermal paste I don't want to scrape off) Using an old pair of AKG k141m 600 Ω. Occasional noise that is I suspect caused by a worn out usb socket. I should replace that. not sure it this comment were any help
Well I appreciate the reply anyway...
The Zishan Z1 sounds good with 8920, balanced and not too polite. I feel sorry for myself, I stepped a few years too late in this Zishan game, I want to try the AK versions too (Z2/Z3), too bad they are out of stock everywhere (because of the fire at AKM, I know). I see them in Ebay and AE but I guess these advertisements are outdated.
The Zishan Z1 sounds good with 8920, balanced and not too polite. I feel sorry for myself, I stepped a few years too late in this Zishan game, I want to try the AK versions too (Z2/Z3), too bad they are out of stock everywhere (because of the fire at AKM, I know). I see them in Ebay and AE but I guess these advertisements are outdated.
It seems my Muses 8920 is fake, the E is a normal E (original has longer legs), and the 0 has the wrong shape.
Bought it from an old guy with a shop. It does sound good anyway. I will get eventually an original from Mouser. I guess the LME is a fake too, also because this opamp is out of production. A lesson learned for 25.- euro.
Bought it from an old guy with a shop. It does sound good anyway. I will get eventually an original from Mouser. I guess the LME is a fake too, also because this opamp is out of production. A lesson learned for 25.- euro.
Merlin-PT
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@raabje
It's better to buy opamps and capacitors from official distributors like mouser and others.
I'm not saying yours are fake or genuine, it's always difficult to be sure from the way they look and photos.
Regarding your questions about LME49720HA, I bought a few from USA arrow.com, these are genuine, the model printed letters are thinner than yours, but in mine the orientation of the printing is also random, it's not aligned with any pin.
It's a good opamp and it was the one I liked most in my Z1, but I wouldn't be obsessed with it, given it's price and not being one of my favorites. IMO, it's good, but there are others (cheaper) that I prefer.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-zishan-z1-dsd-player-thread.844417/page-86#post-15045328
Here a photo from one of my LME49720HA:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-zishan-z1-dsd-player-thread.844417/page-88#post-15427380
Regarding the distortion, there's no distortion here with LME49720HA or any other opamp.
Make sure Z1 batt is charged and also try the LO output, this way you bypass the opamp to see if the problem is in the opamp or before the opamp.
My Z1 sounded musical out of the box, but when replacing the stock opamp, I also felt the need of replacing the 10uF and 100UF capacitors, because more reveling opamp also reveled other problems in sound. This was some years ago...can't remember the details or what else I changed.
If you like, you can also translate this Russian forum for more modifications ideias:
http://player.ru/showthread.php?t=188998
It's better to buy opamps and capacitors from official distributors like mouser and others.
I'm not saying yours are fake or genuine, it's always difficult to be sure from the way they look and photos.
Regarding your questions about LME49720HA, I bought a few from USA arrow.com, these are genuine, the model printed letters are thinner than yours, but in mine the orientation of the printing is also random, it's not aligned with any pin.
It's a good opamp and it was the one I liked most in my Z1, but I wouldn't be obsessed with it, given it's price and not being one of my favorites. IMO, it's good, but there are others (cheaper) that I prefer.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-zishan-z1-dsd-player-thread.844417/page-86#post-15045328
Here a photo from one of my LME49720HA:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-zishan-z1-dsd-player-thread.844417/page-88#post-15427380
Regarding the distortion, there's no distortion here with LME49720HA or any other opamp.
Make sure Z1 batt is charged and also try the LO output, this way you bypass the opamp to see if the problem is in the opamp or before the opamp.
My Z1 sounded musical out of the box, but when replacing the stock opamp, I also felt the need of replacing the 10uF and 100UF capacitors, because more reveling opamp also reveled other problems in sound. This was some years ago...can't remember the details or what else I changed.
If you like, you can also translate this Russian forum for more modifications ideias:
http://player.ru/showthread.php?t=188998
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Thanks! Lot of information, I will go through that. Google Translate makes me seasick after a while, need some time for the Russian pages.
Yesterday evening I was listening to BB King Live at the Regal (flac 24/96) and the music was just perfect. (I wasn't aware of the possibility it's a fake 8920). And even now the Z1 still sounds good to me, no complains.
I will order some opamps from Mouser, I have a DSDs with dual CS43198, and I have ordered a DSDs with dual ES9038Q2M, I am thinking about 3 opamps, Muses01, Muses02 and 8920 to try with these DAP's. I don't know yet, I first have to listen for a while and pin-point what an improvement could be. Problem with Mouser is the minimum of 50 euro to avoid 20 euro cost for shipping. The 8920 should sound almost the same as the 01, so maybe I can order something else for more variety.
Interesting will be the difference (or lack thereof) between my current 8920 and a future 8920 from an official reseller. If there is a lot of difference I smack it with a hammer...
Yesterday evening I was listening to BB King Live at the Regal (flac 24/96) and the music was just perfect. (I wasn't aware of the possibility it's a fake 8920). And even now the Z1 still sounds good to me, no complains.
I will order some opamps from Mouser, I have a DSDs with dual CS43198, and I have ordered a DSDs with dual ES9038Q2M, I am thinking about 3 opamps, Muses01, Muses02 and 8920 to try with these DAP's. I don't know yet, I first have to listen for a while and pin-point what an improvement could be. Problem with Mouser is the minimum of 50 euro to avoid 20 euro cost for shipping. The 8920 should sound almost the same as the 01, so maybe I can order something else for more variety.
Interesting will be the difference (or lack thereof) between my current 8920 and a future 8920 from an official reseller. If there is a lot of difference I smack it with a hammer...
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since this topic is alive again. timing couldn't coincide better.
my z1 was not in use for more than 1 year, last night wanted to use for a test but measured huge dc offset; 8.5-9V for both channels.. LO has no problem, around 2-3mV.
I have tried numerous opamps, resoldered caps and opamp adapter legs but no luck..
any idea? to fix it..
thanks in advance!
my z1 was not in use for more than 1 year, last night wanted to use for a test but measured huge dc offset; 8.5-9V for both channels.. LO has no problem, around 2-3mV.
I have tried numerous opamps, resoldered caps and opamp adapter legs but no luck..
any idea? to fix it..
thanks in advance!
Merlin-PT
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@raabje
I think an audio system sounds as good as it's worst component allows it to sound.
I would prefer to buy diversity instead of 1 or 2 very expensive opamps.
Diversity doesn't mean random, there are some cheap and others not very expensive opamps that people can recommend that sound very good.
You'll have more options if you can solder, you wouldn't be limited to DIP8 opamps, you could also try soic8 models and also changing the dap capacitors, but it's not mandatory.
But if you like to discover/experience if top price is worth it, you could buy 1 very expensive opamp to find for yourself if it's worth it. I don't see or know what a very expensive opamp can do for a 25eur dap, but I never bought the top price opamps and I don't think I ever will.
I've bought some genuine opamps, let's say around 30 different models, recommended from random people I read. The LME49720HA, 8820, 8920 are not cheap, they sound ok, but they are never my favorites.
Some cheap genuine ones I remember I like a lot are LM4562, opa1692, opa2209.
There are many more good and cheap ones I like.
Take a look at the opamp thread and buy some of the cheap and average priced from the recommended ones.
I think an audio system sounds as good as it's worst component allows it to sound.
I would prefer to buy diversity instead of 1 or 2 very expensive opamps.
Diversity doesn't mean random, there are some cheap and others not very expensive opamps that people can recommend that sound very good.
You'll have more options if you can solder, you wouldn't be limited to DIP8 opamps, you could also try soic8 models and also changing the dap capacitors, but it's not mandatory.
But if you like to discover/experience if top price is worth it, you could buy 1 very expensive opamp to find for yourself if it's worth it. I don't see or know what a very expensive opamp can do for a 25eur dap, but I never bought the top price opamps and I don't think I ever will.
I've bought some genuine opamps, let's say around 30 different models, recommended from random people I read. The LME49720HA, 8820, 8920 are not cheap, they sound ok, but they are never my favorites.
Some cheap genuine ones I remember I like a lot are LM4562, opa1692, opa2209.
There are many more good and cheap ones I like.
Take a look at the opamp thread and buy some of the cheap and average priced from the recommended ones.
Merlin-PT
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@endia
I don't remember the Z1 circuit.
EDIT:
I have news, I also measure around 8.8V DC in my Z1 PO output.
I don't remember the Z1 circuit.
EDIT:
I have news, I also measure around 8.8V DC in my Z1 PO output.
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Call me insane, I just bought two Burson V5i-D opamps. I did my research and it will be an overkill for the simplistic Z1 for sure. I bought two, one is a spare opamp for a future player like a Z3. The second one was 25 euro extra. Delivery in 10 days from Australia. I can try the second Burson in the DSDs for a testdrive, but the case won't close because of the size. But then I know the result. This has to be my last audio purchase for a while.
I guess the crux with buying a lot of cheaper opamps is that in the end you spend the same as a for a couple of premium ones, and most of them end in the closet.
I guess the crux with buying a lot of cheaper opamps is that in the end you spend the same as a for a couple of premium ones, and most of them end in the closet.
thank you @Merlin-PT!
i can't remember if I ever measured the z1 before but this much dc offset must fry drivers, strange..
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Merlin-PT
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@raabje
I'm just sharing my personal experience, others will have different paths.
In the ~30 opamp models I tried, the more expensive ones are not my favorites.
It depends on personal taste and were you put them.
The ones I like most (sound wise) are not the most expensives.
@endia
I never lifted the Z1 circuit, so I don't know/understand were the PO DC comes from.
@maxxkur
Hi Maxxkur,
Endia pointed out that Z1 PO output has around 8.5V DC in both channels and I measured the same in mine.
I was wondering were this DC comes from and why it's not blocked by the 100uF caps.
Also switching the multimeter to AC I measured 2.5V AC spikes in both PO channels.
All these without microsd card and lowest volume pot position, but same thing happens with DC PO when music is playing.
Maybe you know what's going on here?
EDIT:
@endia, @maxxkur
Today I still measured the 8.5V DC in both PO channels without any load.
I inserted some random cheap 40ohm earbuds and measured 0V DC with the earbud load.
I removed the earbud and now I also measure 0V DC without load.
Could it be the digital multimeter was mistaken in the 8.5v DC reading?
(At the time I tried 2 different multimeters with same result.)
I have no ideia what was going on with DC output in PO (without load), but it's 0V DC now.
I'm just sharing my personal experience, others will have different paths.
In the ~30 opamp models I tried, the more expensive ones are not my favorites.
It depends on personal taste and were you put them.
The ones I like most (sound wise) are not the most expensives.
@endia
I never lifted the Z1 circuit, so I don't know/understand were the PO DC comes from.
@maxxkur
Hi Maxxkur,
Endia pointed out that Z1 PO output has around 8.5V DC in both channels and I measured the same in mine.
I was wondering were this DC comes from and why it's not blocked by the 100uF caps.
Also switching the multimeter to AC I measured 2.5V AC spikes in both PO channels.
All these without microsd card and lowest volume pot position, but same thing happens with DC PO when music is playing.
Maybe you know what's going on here?
EDIT:
@endia, @maxxkur
Today I still measured the 8.5V DC in both PO channels without any load.
I inserted some random cheap 40ohm earbuds and measured 0V DC with the earbud load.
I removed the earbud and now I also measure 0V DC without load.
Could it be the digital multimeter was mistaken in the 8.5v DC reading?
(At the time I tried 2 different multimeters with same result.)
I have no ideia what was going on with DC output in PO (without load), but it's 0V DC now.
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@ Merlin, yes I understand, I would love to try some more, I am just new to this audio hobby, I'm still a beginner. In future I will try other opamps too. The opamp journey is the destination.
I contacted the shop owner, he told me he thinks the Muses8920 is not fake, just mass production for the huge Chinese market. He also told me some audiophile clients of him had measured the Muses opamps and they where fine to them. Don't know what to think about that, but the Z1 does sound very nice.
I contacted the shop owner, he told me he thinks the Muses8920 is not fake, just mass production for the huge Chinese market. He also told me some audiophile clients of him had measured the Muses opamps and they where fine to them. Don't know what to think about that, but the Z1 does sound very nice.
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