[audiojerry]

I’ve been a “high-end” audio person for a couple of decades and have only recently gotten turned on to headphones after being urged to try them by friends, so I acquired a set of Hifiman HE1000SE planer magnetics. Now I’m getting excited about IEM’s, and heard about the Moondrop Dusk and read that its DSP can be changed with a DSP cable.

Where can I learn more about DSP cable? Are their 3rd party interchangeable versions of DSP cables/software that can be used with IEM (or OEM for that matter)?

I listen to my headphones connected to a Spark headphone amp, which in turn is connected to a dCS dac and dCS Network Bridge with music sourced from Audirvana, which doesn’t allow for DSP to be inserted into the music stream when using the Network Bridge. But would a DSP cable that pre-tunes the IEM work?

Also, are there any first-hand opinions on a comparison of the sound quality of an IEM to an over-the-ear phone leaving out the advantages of the convenience of an IEM?

 

[Hypops]

Haven't tried one myself, but by all accounts Moondrop's DSP cables are still a new and very rough technology that has a lot of kinks left to work out. Also, keep in mind that when Moondrop calls this a "DSP cable," remember that it's actually a DAC with DSP capabilities (on the same chip IIRC). So rather than taking advantage of your super nice dCS DAC, you'd just be negating it with the cheapie $2 DAC chip inside the USB connector. With high-end gear like yours, I'd definitely stay away. It'd be far and away the biggest bottleneck in your system. If you're looking for a DSP component, you want to stick with something that is all digital (digital in and out) like those made by miniDSP and others, and you'd run it between your source and your DAC.

But for now, if you're interested in PEQ/DSP, there are far better (and free!) software-based options available. There are also abundant custom EQ profiles if you don't feel comfortable making your own (oratory1990, autoEQ, etc). However, there are now ways to customize your own PEQ profiles in surprisingly easy ways (using tools like squig.link or rew). While I've never used it myself, it looks like many Audirvana users swear by the FabFilter Pro Q3 plug-in ($170) for doing PEQ in Audirvana. No idea how/if your network bridge rules that out or not.

 

[audiojerry]

Haven't tried one myself, but by all accounts Moondrop's DSP cables are still a new and very rough technology that has a lot of kinks left to work out. Also, keep in mind that when Moondrop calls this a "DSP cable," remember that it's actually a DAC with DSP capabilities (on the same chip IIRC). So rather than taking advantage of your super nice dCS DAC, you'd just be negating it with the cheapie $2 DAC chip inside the USB connector. With high-end gear like yours, I'd definitely stay away. It'd be far and away the biggest bottleneck in your system. If you're looking for a DSP component, you want to stick with something that is all digital (digital in and out) like those made by miniDSP and others, and you'd run it between your source and your DAC.

But for now, if you're interested in PEQ/DSP, there are far better (and free!) software-based options available. There are also abundant custom EQ profiles if you don't feel comfortable making your own (oratory1990, autoEQ, etc). However, there are now ways to customize your own PEQ profiles in surprisingly easy ways (using tools like squig.link or rew). While I've never used it myself, it looks like many Audirvana users swear by the FabFilter Pro Q3 plug-in ($170) for doing PEQ in Audirvana. No idea how/if your network bridge rules that out or not.

Thanks much for your advice. I have much to learn in the headgear audio niche and this forum seems to have plenty of good folks with helpful knowledge.

I can and have used VST in Audirvana but it only works with USB and not with the Network Bridge which uses DLNA.

 

[Aevum]

ok, heres the thing, the signal that arrives at the IEM is always analog. as far as i know there is no IEM with a built in DAC that isnt something like a bluetooth wireless earphone.

the DSP cable is basically a usb DAC with a EQ built in, so it all depends on the degree of integration you want.

the DSP cable can provide a basic DAC and decent EQ, and with some IEM´s like the new moondrop dusk have customized profiles for the IEM its sold with.

Or youi can get something like a Q5K or a BTR15 which has onboard amps, more power and even bluetooth if you want to use your iem´s wirelessly and it has its own EQ which allows you to modify the sound of your IEM

At the end of the day a DSP cable is a on cable Digital EQ for your headphones. again taking in to example the moondrop, its a better EQ then the one usually found on low end daps or phones, but i suspect a good quality dongle or BT amp will be a better choice.

 

[audiojerry]

Well, I definitely do not understand how it works. I was visualizing a headphone with a pre-programmed frequency response curve from the manufacturer that could be modified using an app on your cellphone, tablet, or computer. You would then upload the modified response curve to the headphone, similar to the current practice of performing firmware updates on numerous devices such as TV's. The headphone or DSP cable would not have a built-in dac. Instead the headphone would have a modifiable software/firmware module capable of receiving the modified response curve.

As I think about it, this should already be a common practice for all types of headphones. I wonder if hearing aid makers are doing this.

 

[Hypops]

Well, I definitely do not understand how it works. I was visualizing a headphone with a pre-programmed frequency response curve from the manufacturer that could be modified using an app on your cellphone, tablet, or computer. You would then upload the modified response curve to the headphone, similar to the current practice of performing firmware updates on numerous devices such as TV's. The headphone or DSP cable would not have a built-in dac. Instead the headphone would have a modifiable software/firmware module capable of receiving the modified response curve.

As I think about it, this should already be a common practice for all types of headphones. I wonder if hearing aid makers are doing this.

To process the signal (i.e. apply a response curve), you'd need a digital audio signal. To hear the result, you'd need an analog audio signal. So you'd need a DAC chip.

I have to assume that hearing aids (and active noise canceling headphones) compound the processing by adding ADC technology (to translate sound to digital signal for processing) as well as DACs (to send an analog signal to transducers), but that's way above my pay grade. No doubt, the quality of smaller and cheaper DACs keeps improving, but physics is still physics so size matters. There's a reason high-end DACs are so large.

 

[Aevum]

Ok, theres the thing,

When someone makes a IEM, first he decides what sound he wants and what drivers he wants to use, you decide the manufacturer of the drivers, in case of dynamic the material and the magnets used in the driver, each driver you have to decide if you want it full frequency or segmented, more common in armatures to use different models and sizes to produce audio in a specific range,

Then you have the crossover, which uses diode filters to make sure only the assigned frequency for that driver arrives at that driver, and you can put resistors in the output to that driver to reduce its potency if required, and then you have the internal shape of the IEM which can be a cavern or can be tubes directly from each driver to the nuzzle, if you loom at the Aful Magic 1, its one full range armature with a small snake like tube inside to tame the sound, and then depending on the nuzzle width and the width of the holes you can shape the wave to give it a specific sound on each tube or the nuzzle itself, companies like Ety, Westone and Shure use very narrow openings while other manufacturers use wider bore. also you have tunning filters which change the width, holes, and even introduce dampening, theres a iem from JVC that was famous for being very good except the treble, and it was solved by shoving a piece of cotton in the nuzzle, then JVC with drop released a version with 3 different filters that had 3 different amounts of dampening.

Tunning an IEM aint easy.

 

[audiojerry]

Tunning an IEM aint easy

I didn't realize!

I couldn't imagine that components like caps, resistors, inductors, ports, and more could exist in micro size and used in tiny IEM's, which would make use of a firmware update problematic.

My naive hopes have been crushed.

Thanks to all for sharing such useful knowledge.