[sygnus21]

This was taken some 20+ years ago. It was actually the very first photo I ever sold (I'm an armature photographer). One of my co-workers saw it and wanted two, one for her, and one for her mother. Little did she know she would inspire me to sell many more of my photos. Any this is called Music, please...

Denon DP-47F turntable with included OEM MC cartridge. I still have the turntable, but it's packed away as I no longer deal with vinyl. Simply CDs now.

BTW, the original image was shot on B&W film.

 

[hakunamakaka]

Hey folks,

I'm back to the vinyls as bought vintage TD160 and blew the dust of my tube phono-preamp. New tubes arrived and excitement was through the roof till I pressed play. Bold, in your face type of sound with lots of sibilance in treble and female vocals.This is not even close how I remember my TT setup used to sound..Can this be due to worn out stylus ? It has Ortofon m15 e super cartridge, though seller said stylus is in good condition I'm really doubting that now.

Tubes are different and I'll be re-adjusting tonearm, but so far a bit disappointed. Can anyone recommend cartridge for medium weight tonearm as TP-16 ? I read good things about Grado Gold 3, but seems their cartridges have no grounding and hum is usually apparent with thorens TT's.

I've read about Nagaoka MP-110 which looks it could fit my profile. I'm looking towards warmer sound for relaxed sessions, but don't want to push it into muddy/veiled territory.

 

[theeclone]

Hey folks,

I'm back to the vinyls as bought vintage TD160 and blew the dust of my tube phono-preamp. New tubes arrived and excitement was through the roof till I pressed play. Bold, in your face type of sound with lots of sibilance in treble and female vocals.This is not even close how I remember my TT setup used to sound..Can this be due to worn out stylus ? It has Ortofon m15 e super cartridge, though seller said stylus is in good condition I'm really doubting that now.

Tubes are different and I'll be re-adjusting tonearm, but so far a bit disappointed. Can anyone recommend cartridge for medium weight tonearm as TP-16 ? I read good things about Grado Gold 3, but seems their cartridges have no grounding and hum is usually apparent with thorens TT's.

I've read about Nagaoka MP-110 which looks it could fit my profile. I'm looking towards warmer sound for relaxed sessions, but don't want to push it into muddy/veiled territory.

I've tried a grado gold 3 with not much success on my medium mass tonearm (audio technica at-lp7 table) and I currently run a nagaoka 150 on it with pretty good results. I do feel like the low end is a bit weak sometimes with the nagaoka, but that may be more down to other factors like the tonearm and the mat I'm using.

 

[hakunamakaka]

I've tried a grado gold 3 with not much success on my medium mass tonearm (audio technica at-lp7 table) and I currently run a nagaoka 150 on it with pretty good results. I do feel like the low end is a bit weak sometimes with the nagaoka, but that may be more down to other factors like the tonearm and the mat I'm using.

At the moment I'm leaning towards warmer cartridge which seems MP-110 to be the case. Once and if I feel the itch for an upgrade will look into 150 stylus. Closed the TT lid and will wait for new belt & MP-110 to arrive

 

[]eep]

Hey folks,

I'm back to the vinyls as bought vintage TD160 and blew the dust of my tube phono-preamp. New tubes arrived and excitement was through the roof till I pressed play. Bold, in your face type of sound with lots of sibilance in treble and female vocals.This is not even close how I remember my TT setup used to sound..Can this be due to worn out stylus ? It has Ortofon m15 e super cartridge, though seller said stylus is in good condition I'm really doubting that now.

Tubes are different and I'll be re-adjusting tonearm, but so far a bit disappointed. Can anyone recommend cartridge for medium weight tonearm as TP-16 ? I read good things about Grado Gold 3, but seems their cartridges have no grounding and hum is usually apparent with thorens TT's.

I've read about Nagaoka MP-110 which looks it could fit my profile. I'm looking towards warmer sound for relaxed sessions, but don't want to push it into muddy/veiled territory.

Nostalgia is hitting hard... But progress has not been standing still over that long time. And its not just fate that made brands like Thorens and Dual go out of business. Competition broke them, pushing them to produce ever cheaper products. And eventually they were finished by the coming of CD's. And others did survive, like Rega, Linn and startupsike Pro-ject. Just to name a few.

What they did is focus on the essentials and make them with precision, tighter tolerances and less bells and whistles. Like rattling mechanisms for autostop. And from that modern turntables have progressed. Especially tonearms. Modern measuring and design tools have further helped progress to focus on what matters most. Also vintage cartridges especially have not aged well. Cartridges in the 70-ies were far from standardized. Many were focussed on super lightweight arms with all the vibration control problems that come with that choice. Cabling them was just bellwire copper. No OFC. So that has now oxidized considerably.

Cartridges, if you bought a cartridge costing >$100 in the 70-ies people looked at you like you lost a marble or two, or all of them. Even MC cartridges were rare and seldom over 1k. Now a good cartridge cost money. Made by hand. That's why they are often outsourced to low wage countries. And now those OEMs are making those themselves for considerably lower prices. Just look at the previous page.

Old turntables are not all 'vintage'. Most are just old. And worn. Oils and greases dried up. Rubber dried and brittle. Only some of them are worth refurbishing. Usually only top models. And most of the time that includes a new modern arm. And a modern cartridge (unless you like to be ripped off for aftermarket stylus replacements).

My best advice: buy a proper new turntable that includes service (like a U-turn custom or Pro-ject or Rega) and put a $200 Chinese Zhige cartridge on it.
Or ... Get a simple AT3600 for $10 from China. The most underrated cartridge ever. Warm, dynamic and powerfull. And easy to install. More than capable for the old Thorens. I have a Thorens TD115 (a pita to fix up) that works fine with it.

BTW, this is a picture thread. Not advice.

 

[]eep]

I'm an armature photographer too. 5m setup, 1 shot out of hand holding my phone of my old TT (first shot is usually the best). Haven't sold any copies yet because I just took it. No photoshop, just reduced size.

My old Minolta and Minox are gathering dust...

 

[]eep]

Here's a nighttime special that goes with this luciferian glitch (I never saw the hype sticker or I would never have bought it. Thanks for the 'review' Michael45).

 

[hakunamakaka]

Nostalgia is hitting hard... But progress has not been standing still over that long time. And its not just fate that made brands like Thorens and Dual go out of business. Competition broke them, pushing them to produce ever cheaper products. And eventually they were finished by the coming of CD's. And others did survive, like Rega, Linn and startupsike Pro-ject. Just to name a few.

What they did is focus on the essentials and make them with precision, tighter tolerances and less bells and whistles. Like rattling mechanisms for autostop. And from that modern turntables have progressed. Especially tonearms. Modern measuring and design tools have further helped progress to focus on what matters most. Also vintage cartridges especially have not aged well. Cartridges in the 70-ies were far from standardized. Many were focussed on super lightweight arms with all the vibration control problems that come with that choice. Cabling them was just bellwire copper. No OFC. So that has now oxidized considerably.

Cartridges, if you bought a cartridge costing >$100 in the 70-ies people looked at you like you lost a marble or two, or all of them. Even MC cartridges were rare and seldom over 1k. Now a good cartridge cost money. Made by hand. That's why they are often outsourced to low wage countries. And now those OEMs are making those themselves for considerably lower prices. Just look at the previous page.

Old turntables are not all 'vintage'. Most are just old. And worn. Oils and greases dried up. Rubber dried and brittle. Only some of them are worth refurbishing. Usually only top models. And most of the time that includes a new modern arm. And a modern cartridge (unless you like to be ripped off for aftermarket stylus replacements).

My best advice: buy a proper new turntable that includes service (like a U-turn custom or Pro-ject or Rega) and put a $200 Chinese Zhige cartridge on it.
Or ... Get a simple AT3600 for $10 from China. The most underrated cartridge ever. Warm, dynamic and powerfull. And easy to install. More than capable for the old Thorens. I have a Thorens TD115 (a pita to fix up) that works fine with it.

BTW, this is a picture thread. Not advice.

When properly set-up and taken care of at least sound-wise I don't think new TT are that much superior. Of-course you need to have a good starting point, but I remember when I got things going with TD166 It didn't shy from Rega P3 at all.

 

[]eep]

When properly set-up and taken care of at least sound-wise I don't think new TT are that much superior. Of-course you need to have a good starting point, but I remember when I got things going with TD166 It didn't shy from Rega P3 at all.

When this and if that. Like I said, with proper maintenance a top table from the 60-ies or 70-ies can sound good. But it's always the arms. I have several Lenco idler drives that sound great but the arm is problematic even with new v-blocks. Not to mention the crappy headshell that is horrible to mount a normal cartridge on. And the wires... Ugh. But when refurbished properly they are pretty good.

I also have a TD115 that took me months to get right. And then it sounds 'meh'. I have a TD150 that I took in to fix 30 years ago...it's still not finished. The arm was crap. I'll just be using the platter and spindle if I ever get it finished. I have a Rega RB301 arm for that that I tried also on my current table, and honestly, it's solid but it doesn't sound very well with my MC cartridges (not because they are MC but I can't get much more out of it than my MM cartridges can offer). I had high hopes for the rb301 but it is disappointing to me.

I have several top model Dual TT's. The 1219 is in working order and plays ok. But again...the arm! The headshell works ok and I can quickly swap cartridges. But it's never a solid connection. Prone to oxidisation of the sled contacts. The arm is to light, not stiff enough. An other Dual has a problem with a broken RPM knob. I tried to fix that but oh man! It is so complex! I can't get the parts for a decent price. The cables are old and bad, no RCA's. All that stuff rattling around in the plinth. And look at the 'quality' of that plinth.

I have a couple of Garrard idlers. Not the 301. Cheaper models. Unusable. Plain old crap. Wasted money. Even if i only payed €25.

I have an Akai tangential which is actually a Technics SL5. I put in a new T4P cartridge that is just ok (Tonar HE) and the result is meh. Ergonomics 10, sound 5. Good luck trying to find a better T4P cartridge. No direct drive for me. The Akai though, that's nostalgic catnip for me from when I couldn't afford it.

And which old turntables do I like then? Apart from Lenco with a new arm. The ones I never expected much from. I hate Philips. Because my dad bought one that I played with until I could afford my own. Sold on the reputation of older models while this one was automatic and built to a budget (even if it was the top model).
It's always the ones you don't see coming. First this ugly 80-ies tangential FP146 I bought for €10. Refurbished and fixed everything. New cartridge (there hoes another €10). And a thick platter for extra mass. Unbelievable how good it sounds now.

And now the iconic Philips 212 electronic. Once I scraped off the liquified belt (aging, common problem) and put on a new one it just worked. I renewed the old cap (also known problem) and cleaned it up. It's a suspended TT which makes it rather wobbly. The arm looks thin but works fine. The headshell sleds are a point of contention. But it works and sounds great. And the electronic tip buttons are a joy to work with. The speed stability is the best I measured for any turntable.

So that's a load of hard work and nostalgia for you. But as for sound quality nothing beats my new turntable. It just beats the crap out of my digital system, which is also no slouch. It's not a coincidence that it does as I've been upgrading for 40 years. And I know what I like and what works.

BTW: This is all my own stuff. (I could start a museum by now).
This is just a pic of my current table. I said this was a picture thread.

 

[ZHIFENG]

I like it

 

[theeclone]

At the moment I'm leaning towards warmer cartridge which seems MP-110 to be the case. Once and if I feel the itch for an upgrade will look into 150 stylus. Closed the TT lid and will wait for new belt & MP-110 to arrive

Update: I was able to wring a little more low end out of the mp 150. Swapped headshells so I could add some weight. Word to the wise, it seems this cart likes a bit more effective mass than my TT arm and previous headshell were giving it. The 110 may be similar.

Only problem is this cheap universal headshell angles the cart weirdly and it's really tough to get the VTA right. So much faffing in this hobby but I guess that's the fun. Having a great listening sesh with much less EQ'ing with the Lokius than before. Hoping a better headshell and the ability to use more mats once I can get the VTA better dialed in will allow me to bypass the EQ completely.

 

[]eep]

Update: I was able to wring a little more low end out of the mp 150. Swapped headshells so I could add some weight. Word to the wise, it seems this cart likes a bit more effective mass than my TT arm and previous headshell were giving it. The 110 may be similar.

Only problem is this cheap universal headshell angles the cart weirdly and it's really tough to get the VTA right. So much faffing in this hobby but I guess that's the fun. Having a great listening sesh with much less EQ'ing with the Lokius than before. Hoping a better headshell and the ability to use more mats once I can get the VTA better dialed in will allow me to bypass the EQ completely.

No. That's not the fun. A proper turntable and arm let's you set all those parameters easily. I can tell you from experience that those detachable headshells are fun and lets you change cartridges easily but at the expense of sound quality.

I'm not meaning to poo poo on your turntable. But you get a lot more realism and micro dynamics with a belt drive (unless you go for the real expensive DD). Also the tonearm matters lot more than you think. Now I have a turntable with room for 3 arms I can compare them directly and now I notice how much information is left behind with a decent s-shape tonearm with detachable headshell compared to a really good 12" straight carbon tonearm with silver wiring. It's really a big difference that takes cheap cartridges to a much higher level. And the cheap one makes my $2k cartridges sound just 'meh'.

You might say that sounds 'elitist' or 'snobby' but I've been upgrading for 40 years now and I didn't have a lot of money most of the time. So take it as advice how to save money and enjoy more. Take a look at the new U-turn turntable arm. That's really magnificent for so little money. It will beat the crap out of any Technics sl1200 lookalike (which is the most overhyped turntable EVER).
Don't fall for that. Straight arm, belt drive, perspex platter is the best and fastest way to vinyl bliss. And if you have the money upgrade to MC with a really good phono.

 

[theeclone]

A proper turntable and arm let's you set all those parameters easily

I don’t see this arm as being particularly difficult to adjust. Far from it. Where things get faffy for me is alignment (not vta), swapping out headshells (I know, not an issue with the kind of arms you’re advocating), adding/removing effective mass, choosing the right mat, etc.

you get a lot more realism and micro dynamics with a belt drive

The at-lp7 is a belt drive.

And if you have the money upgrade to MC

I’m 0 for 2 on MC carts I’ve tried so far. Those would be the Hana el and dl 103. There was something lacking in the low end for me. A lack of sweetness and good feelings in the body in response to the bass. I have a pretty good SUT and I think the Skoll is a fine pre.

There is just something about MM that I like. Perhaps more solidity and punch. Perhaps more euphonic. If I have to go much higher in price than where my rig is now, I’m not ready to take that leap.

Take a look at the new U-turn turntable arm. That's really magnificent for so little money. It will beat the crap out of any Technics sl1200 lookalike (which is the most overhyped turntable EVER).

I recently bought and set up a u turn orbit as a gift for somebody. A fine table but I wouldn’t say it blew me away (though maybe it doesn’t have the arm you’re referring to). Also the at lp 7 arm isn’t quite a 1200 clone, being J shaped and having different effective mass. I too avoid using a 1200 for serious listening.

 

[hakunamakaka]

Update: I was able to wring a little more low end out of the mp 150. Swapped headshells so I could add some weight. Word to the wise, it seems this cart likes a bit more effective mass than my TT arm and previous headshell were giving it. The 110 may be similar.

Only problem is this cheap universal headshell angles the cart weirdly and it's really tough to get the VTA right. So much faffing in this hobby but I guess that's the fun. Having a great listening sesh with much less EQ'ing with the Lokius than before. Hoping a better headshell and the ability to use more mats once I can get the VTA better dialed in will allow me to bypass the EQ completely.

Well my goal is not to beat high-end tier sound of current turntables, but to make it enjoyable and good for my own preferences. I know it's achievable as when I owned TD166 with very lightweight toneram TP62 which many disregards I had great results using Ortofon NF 15 XE MKII cartridge. While Rega P3 & AT cartridge had more dynamic/fun presentation I enjoyed TD166 more which was well extended, easy going presentation with better staging. Some may call it boring, but it's a gold to my ears especially matched with tube phono-preamp & jazz music.

Maybe I rushed with mp-110, but let's see. Really don't mind to waste a bit of time till I get things right. Sorry for ramblings won't de-rail the thread further

 

[AndreiSk]

A vintage Japan combo!

Technics SP-10, SH-10B3, SH-10E, STAX UA-7, Supex SD-909 with Audio-Technica AT618A weight.