[Lee Brindley]

Hi

I think I'm going crazy!

A while back i bought a HR Balanced Desk Top and and a re-cabled Denon D5000 Balanced from a fellow HeadFi-er (hey Damian!)

All was well. Worked a treat.

Then for an upgrade a sold the HR and got another amp that only accepted a 1/4" plug - so i had to use the 'Y' adaptor joining the XLR's (male to female) ending in a 1/4" plug - cans worked grrrreat. With me so far.......

I now have a balanced HR max amp - plugged my balanced AKG 701's into both sets of balanced outputs - all works fine.

Plugged my D5000's with 1/4" Y connector still on - works fine on all 4 sockets.

THEN - took the Y connector off and plugged the balanced XLR's into the HR - nothing - silence. ??????????????

Totally bemused.

HR amp works fine with 1/4" or balanced (from 701) in all sockets. So no fault with amp.

D5000 works fine with 1/4" adaptor - so cans work fine and male xlr's must be ok too as if prob with them going in to female adaptor - id get no sound when 1/4" plugged in.

So why no sound when connected via balanced???

No sound at all incidentally - even if pushed in "loose" or clicked in. With the 701's you get sound even before the xlr's go 'click'. With the Denons - nothing - complete silence.

Seems odd as the very same XLR connectors worked just fine in my previous HR amp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any ideas???

Lee

 

[Lee Brindley]

Help

 

[Lee Brindley]

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[Lee Brindley]

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[vcoheda]

you are using XLR interconnects?

 

[musicman59]

Open you XLR connectors in the Denon and make sure that the + wire is connected to the pin 2 and the - wire is connected to the pin 3.

If they are configured like this then open the ones in your K701 to make sure they are configured the same way. If they are not and you are saying that the K701 works fine with you balance amp then the amp coul dbe wired different so just reconfigure your Denon to match the same a the K701.

 

[Lee Brindley]

Ok thanx - will give it a go.

What i dont get thought is how the D5K worked when into a HR balanced desktop - yet no go into the MAX. The max works fine with the bal AKG ! Also the D5K when used with male/fem connectors and 1/4" works fine.
Ticklish to say the least !!!!

Will report back....

Lee

 

[musicman59]

Don't know Lee. I could be that the 2 amplifiers for some reason had the pin configuration in the connectors different.

I bought a RAL Senheiser cable from a Head-fier. The cable was like new so I did notunderstand why he sold it. After installing it in my HD650 they sound like crap. No bass and out of focus. I couln't undrestand why so many people say the balanced HD650 were so good.
I used a XLR to Single ended adapter to give it a try as single ended and in that configutation I lost a channel. At that time I also had a single ended Silver Dragon cable. With the SD the HD650 sounded so good. I was about to give up and try to sell the RAL balanced when I decided to open the XLR connectors. I was able to tell that nobody had mess with them but the wires were not connected in the proper configuration form the manufacturer. I disoldered the wires and solder them again in the proper way.... WOW! It was a 1,000% difference. Now I know why the balanced HD650 are praise so much.

My point is that in this hobby there is a lot of small manufacturers and many of the products are hand made so the quality control is not the same as in massive corporations.

let me know if you see any difference between the cnfiguration of the wires of the 2 headphones.

 

[Lee Brindley]

Ok - an update.

Had an email saying the HR Max Bal will only send signal to bal cans if the source is balanced - i.e. xlr from CDP or output or rec-out on my amp to HR input. This i did with XLR bal cables. On rear of HR toggle set to balanced - and plugged in my BAL AKG701's and voila - sound! Just to confirm - i then changed to RCA's / and set toggle to unbal - and with the AKG's still plugged in - SILENCE.

I then plugged a 1/4" terminated HP in and - SOUND! Proving that balanced cans only work via balanced input - all very obvious so far.

Went back to XLR cabling, toggle, and again the AKG's worked fine. Then plugged in my Denon D5000 balanced - SILENCE. This proved the amp, set up and config is right (as it worked with the AKG's) and that the prob is with the Denon cans.

Why then - if i plug the Y adaptor onto the XLR's of the Denon's - and plug in with the 1/4" plug - in either BAL or UNBAL - i get SOUND ! - kinda indicates nothing wrong with the cans too....

Yet removing the Y piece and plugging the XLR's str in to the HR - SILENCE.

If the Denons were faulty or the XLR's were incorrectly wired - which would seem the fault as they dont work when used with XLR connectors - why then adding the Y piece and connecting via the 1/4" they then work !!!!!

Explain that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rgds

Lee

 

[Lee Brindley]

As a footnote - if i send em back to markl, lawton or whoever did the conversion - Damian can you advise(!) - i dont want to look an idiot - as i say they work with the 1/4" Y adaptor !

 

[musicman59]

In a XLR configuration both the positive (pin 2) and the negative (pin 3) carry signal in both channels. The difference is that ion the negative it is inverted.

In a TRS (plug) single ended) just the positive of each channel carry signal the negative is just ground.

Did you get the XLR to TRS adapter from the same source? If the XRL are using pins 1 and 2 in both the headphones and adapter the headphones will not work in balance but using the adapter since the female XRL match the male XLR configuration they will work on Single Ended.

As I recommended before just open your Denon XLR connectors and make sure the are using pin 2 for the positive lead and pin 3 for the negative lead in both channels.

 

[Lee Brindley]

Hi - thanks for the reply. We seem to be getting somewhere here. The chap i bought the cans off has said pretty much the same thing.

I unscrewed the XLR - but the wires seem to be stuck in - and even if i got them out i have no idea how to solder etc.....

Does anyone know of anyone in the UK skilled to do this for me???

Rgds

Lee

 

[omendelovitz]

soldering is easy enough a skill to learn - lots of online tutorials w/ step by step instructions, plus you should be able to buy a decent soldering iron and supplies for 100 quid, which is at least as much as you'd pay fo someone to do the work I'd imagine... well, someone worth sending your cans to anyway...

Also, you might want to email/pm tyll hearstens @ headroom for more help. He's an awesome guy.

 

[Lee Brindley]

Opening the plugs on the Denon is easy enough but the wiring seems to be stuck or glued in the end of the XLR plug - not sure how to get it out !

I did email Steven Kelby - who did the work with the Denons / Jena wire and XLR plugs in the first place- but he has remained silent.

Seems odd that these cans worked fine on a HR desktop balanced yet dont work on the HR Bal Max - both via the XLR sockets...

Maybe i will mail Tyll see what he says about differences in the amps.

Cheers

Lee


Quote:

Originally Posted by musicman59 /img/forum/go_quote.gif In a XLR configuration both the positive (pin 2) and the negative (pin 3) carry signal in both channels. The difference is that ion the negative it is inverted. In a TRS (plug) single ended) just the positive of each channel carry signal the negative is just ground. Did you get the XLR to TRS adapter from the same source? If the XRL are using pins 1 and 2 in both the headphones and adapter the headphones will not work in balance but using the adapter since the female XRL match the male XLR configuration they will work on Single Ended. As I recommended before just open your Denon XLR connectors and make sure the are using pin 2 for the positive lead and pin 3 for the negative lead in both channels.

 

[Lee Brindley]

Looks like i have a definite answer from Steve who re-wired. Wrong wires to wrong pins!
Going back to be re-done. Big thanks to Steve, Damian, Tyll and all who contributed here.

Will rpt back when i finally get them into my HR Max Bal.



Lee