[rollinbr]

I've seen that, but I'm not sure how to run that to Ground, Left, Right (TRS). If that's possible at all. Or to two balanced outputs. In those cases it's either one wire too many or one wire missing.

This is what you're looking for, see the link below. On a male TRS, (Tip, Ring, Sleeve), the L+ signal is connected to the Tip of the TRS connector. The R+ signal is connected to the Ring of the TRS connector and the L- and R- are common to one another and connect to the Sleeve of the TRS connector.

If you were to wire a male TRS connector to a 4 pin female XLR connector you would wire it up using the following method. L+ to the tip of TRS and the other end of the wire goes to pin 1 of the 4 pin XLR. R+ to the sleeve of the TRS connector and the other end of the wire goes to pin 3 of the 4 pin XLR. Two wires will connect to the Sleeve, being L- and R-. One wire goes to pin 2 on the XLR and the other wire will go to pin 4 on the 4 pin XLR.

A 1/4" 6.35mm Male to 4-pin XLR Balanced Female Headphone Audio Adapter

 

[Buckie]

This is what you're looking for, see the link below. On a male TRS, (Tip, Ring, Sleeve), the L+ signal is connected to the Tip of the TRS connector. The R+ signal is connected to the Ring of the TRS connector and the L- and R- are common to one another and connect to the Sleeve of the TRS connector.

If you were to wire a male TRS connector to a 4 pin female XLR connector you would wire it up using the following method. L+ to the tip of TRS and the other end of the wire goes to pin 1 of the 4 pin XLR. R+ to the sleeve of the TRS connector and the other end of the wire goes to pin 3 of the 4 pin XLR. Two wires will connect to the Sleeve, being L- and R-. One wire goes to pin 2 on the XLR and the other wire will go to pin 4 on the 4 pin XLR.

A 1/4" 6.35mm Male to 4-pin XLR Balanced Female Headphone Audio Adapter

Well, so that assumes that L- and R- are just common ground? Is there a spec somewhere for that? Because that sounds more like hot and cold pins of the balanced out. Certainly if they were indeed a common ground, we (they) could simply use a 3-pin XLR instead of a 4-pin one? There must be a reason for that 4 pin but I can't find the spec.

 

[Aleksandar R.]

Well, so that assumes that L- and R- are just common ground? Is there a spec somewhere for that? Because that sounds more like hot and cold pins of the balanced out. Certainly if they were indeed a common ground, we (they) could simply use a 3-pin XLR instead of a 4-pin one? There must be a reason for that 4 pin but I can't find the spec.

That relates only to the amplifier, it has nothing to do with transformers.

If the amp has a 1/4" output, it can work with common GND.

The TI-box has separate GND (or we can call it "balanced") all the way, from input to output.
The only common GND connection will happen at the TRS jack, but that's the amp's business, transformers don't care.

 

[Buckie]

That relates only to the amplifier, it has nothing to do with transformers.

If the amp has a 1/4" output, it can work with common GND.

The TI-box has separate GND (or we can call it "balanced") all the way, from input to output.
The only common GND connection will happen at the TRS jack, but that's the amp's business, transformers don't care.

I see. So then, hypothetically, if I were to wire two regular balanced outs to the TI, how would that go?

 

[Aleksandar R.]

I see. So then, hypothetically, if I were to wire two regular balanced outs to the TI, how would that go?

I'm not sure what you mean by "to wire", but all you have to do is plug in the cable that you get with the TI.

You have four choices, 4-pin XLR, 1/4" TRS or 4 bananas or 4 spades (for speaker amps).

TI box will not drop anything to GND or connect anything together.
If you come in balanced, it will be balanced all the way to the headphone drivers.

If your amp has a TRS output and if you will be making your own TRS-to-XLR cables, then follow the previously posted wiring schematics, but that is not balanced and you can't wire it to become balanced.

Amps with balanced outputs have one of these output connectors: 4-pin XLR, Pentaconn 4.4mm (TRRRS) or 2.5mm TRRS.
Could be something else entirely, but the point being that there is no common GND or GND connection to each channel in balanced amps, as such amps are either with bridged output or otherwise balanced or transformer output with floating secondary.
So, if you're wiring those connectors, just follow what is High and Low for each channel and connect it to 4-pin XLR like here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/raa...eadphone-is-here-headamp.963873/post-17842512

 

[Buckie]

I'm not sure what you mean by "to wire", but all you have to do is plug in the cable that you get with the TI.

You have four choices, 4-pin XLR, 1/4" TRS or 4 bananas or 4 spades (for speaker amps).

TI box will not drop anything to GND or connect anything together.
If you come in balanced, it will be balanced all the way to the headphone drivers.

If your amp has a TRS output and if you will be making your own TRS cables, then follow the previously posted wiring schematics, but that is not balanced and you can't wire it to become balanced.

Amps with balanced outputs have one of these output connectors: 4-pin XLR, Pentaconn 4.4mm (TRRRS) or 2.5mm TRRS.
Could be something else entirely, but the point being that there is no common GND or GND connection to each channel, as such amps are either with bridged output or otherwise balanced or transformer output with floating secondary.
So, if you're wiring those connectors, just follow what is High and Low for each channel and connect it to 4-pin XLR like here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/raa...eadphone-is-here-headamp.963873/post-17842512

I see. I meant wiring the regular 3-pin XLR balanced line out that is commonly found on DACs (Hot, Cold, Ground for Left and Right). That may not make practical sense, but I was still wondering how to connect that just to understand it better by example.

 

[Aleksandar R.]

I see. I meant wiring the regular 3-pin XLR balanced line out that is commonly found on DACs (Hot, Cold, Ground for Left and Right). That may not make practical sense, but I was still wondering how to connect that just to understand it better by example.

No, never do that!

DAC outputs or preamp outputs will get blown if you connect 32 Ohms to them.

They are designed to drive inputs of other electronic devices in the chain, not transducers.
You might get by with connecting 600 Ohm headphones, but not without risk.
With anything that has lower impedance than that, the DAC output is on it's way to get repaired.

Basically, most of these questions are solved by us, the manufacturers, by using the right connector for the job.
If you find two 3-pin XLR's at an input of some device, then the source device with matching connectors is able to drive it without damage, and this is not the case with the TI-box, as it has no 3-pin XLR inputs.

For the TI-box, the matching device would be a headphone amplifier with 4-pin XLR output. In rare cases, a 1/4" TRS output, but usually, amps with TRS output don't have ehough power to drive SR-1a/b or CA-1a headphones, which is why the TI box has a 4-pin XLR input.

Our headphones together with headphone cable are 0.25 Ohms, which is why the headphone cable, albeit with 4-pin XLR, has a "wrong" gender 4-pin XLR connector, preventing you to plug them directly into the headphone amp and blow the amp and headphones together.

So, when in doubt about these things, just follw the connector type and don't mix-and-match without being thoroughly informed about it aforehand.
Which is exactly what you did and it's good that you asked, as now you know and won't fry the output of your DAC.

 

[Buckie]

No, never do that!

DAC outputs or preamp outputs will get blown if you connect 32 Ohms to them.

They are designed to drive inputs of other electronic devices in the chain, not transducers.
You might get by with connecting 600 Ohm headphones, but not without risk.
With anything that has lower impedance than that, the DAC output is on it's way to get repaired.

Basically, most of these questions are solved by us, the manufacturers, by using the right connector for the job.
If you find two 3-pin XLR's at an input of some device, then the source device with matching connectors is able to drive it without damage, and this is not the case with the TI-box, as it has no 3-pin XLR inputs.

For the TI-box, the matching device would be a headphone amplifier with 4-pin XLR output. In rare cases, a 1/4" TRS output, but usually, amps with TRS output don't have ehough power to drive SR-1a/b or CA-1a headphones, which is why the TI box has a 4-pin XLR input.

Our headphones together with headphone cable are 0.25 Ohms, which is why the headphone cable, albeit with 4-pin XLR, has a "wrong" gender 4-pin XLR connector, preventing you to plug them directly into the headphone amp and blow the amp and headphones together.

So, when in doubt about these things, just follw the connector type and don't mix-and-match without being thoroughly informed about it aforehand.
Which is exactly what you did and it's good that you asked, as now you know and won't fry the output of your DAC.

Ooh! That's super-useful to know and very educating!

You say that both the headphones and the DAC/amp might get blown if I connect them directly without a transformer. I understand how the amp might not like the near-short circuit, but why would the headphones die in this case? Is it because the dying circuitry would send some unexpected voltage? I believe you've said something to that effect either on the website or here... Why wouldn't manufacturers of those usually expensive amps outfit them with some kind of basic fuse protection to avoid situations like that?

 

[Polygonhell]

Why wouldn't manufacturers of those usually expensive amps outfit them with some kind of basic fuse protection to avoid situations like that?

Many amps do have protection circuits, but it's a trade off, everything you put in the main audio circuit impacts the output in some way, so some manufacturers choose not to do that.
If an amp fails there is no telling what it will stick on it's output, and almost any amp is capable of a voltage spike or a DC offset large enough to destroy a driver.

Think of it this way, every output on the amp is rated for a load that it expects, line outs are expecting ~10K+ Ohm loads, at about 2V so more or less about 200 Micro Amps or less, now in practice you'd probably get away drawing at least a few Milli Amps off that, and potentially a lot more than that, depending on the design. But if you pull too much current, at some point something in that circuit will behave like a fuse.
That circuit likely doesn't have protection on it, because in normal use it's unlikely to see a short, or a bad load.

The headphone out on an amp is however quite likely to see at least a temporary short when you plug in a 6.35, or 3.5mm SE headphone, so they tend to be protected against that (note not all manufacturers do that).
At one point when testing a component I was building, I accidentally put a dead short on the headphone output of a Schiit Magni, for probably several minutes and didn't manage to hurt it. But I know of several people have destroyed other amps with bad headphone connectors.

 

[KaiSc]

So to calculate that we need to know the impedance of the TI-1b?
My source is Prism Sound Callia.

The information at hand I got from Prism Sound Callia’s manual allows to calculate it’s power.

MedZ is spec’ed for loads down to 32 Ohm.
Source impedance is 4 Ohm.
Output voltage MedZ is 8.45 dBu (open loop, likely).
= 3,64 V into 32 Ohm (4 Ohm source impedance voltage drop included)

-> Power into Raal T1a/b max. 0.41 W.

This is ca. 7 - 11dB below Raal‘s rating of 2 - 6 W that the T1a/b / SR1a/b needs for 111 dB SPL

So, for listening to hot mastered contemporary pop-, rock- etc.-music, the achievable listening level of 100 dB SPL Peak / 90 dB SPL Average can be sufficient, with a little reserve.
For dynamic Classical or Jazz only if you tend to listen at moderate (ear-healthy) levels around 80 dB SPL Average.

If you tend to listen loud, you would need to drive the Prism to it‘s limits, which might not work too well taken into account the problematic load a transformer presents at the low and sub-low end.

 

[Buckie]

The information at hand I got from Prism Sound Callia’s manual allows to calculate it’s power.

MedZ is spec’ed for loads down to 32 Ohm.
Source impedance is 4 Ohm.
Output voltage MedZ is 8.45 dBu (open loop, likely).
= 3,64 V into 32 Ohm (4 Ohm source impedance voltage drop included)

-> Power into Raal T1a/b max. 0.41 W.

This is ca. 7 - 11dB below Raal‘s rating of 2 - 6 W that the T1a/b / SR1a/b needs for 111 dB SPL

So, for listening to hot mastered contemporary pop-, rock- etc.-music, the achievable listening level of 100 dB SPL Peak / 90 dB SPL Average can be sufficient, with a little reserve.
For dynamic Classical or Jazz only if you tend to listen at moderate (ear-healthy) levels around 80 dB SPL Average.

If you tend to listen loud, you would need to drive the Prism to it‘s limits, which might not work too well taken into account the problematic load a transformer presents at the low and sub-low end.

Thanks so much for calculating that! I'm not terribly familiar with electrical engineering, so this does sound like sorcery a bit. But at least I understand what the final result means.

I initially auditioned the CA-1a with Violectric DHA V590 (if visual memory serves me right), and the volume knob was mostly twisted to the max, even though the specs say there should be plenty of power. Maybe also because I didn't fiddle with the DIP switches at the back, but still. If that kind of power was barely enough, I can imagine my Callia would simply fall flat. I don't tend to listen loud, but getting the CA and losing the bottom end and altering the frequecy response just because the chain isn't fit for them would be pretty meaningless.

 

[tassardar]

L

Was testing CA-1A with a bunch of amps. The A70pro is probably the most affordable solution on hand that delivers a decent experience. After testing I do think the burson and also Enleum is a touch nicer. Sadly the Enleum hpa-23rm will distort in base the moment the average listening volume is near 80db.

I’m estimating that CA-1A with interface TI-1B needs a amp that can output a good 2w to sound good and well powered.

And surprisingly my M17 can power the headphones while on battery powered. The bass is alittle weakened and less defined, likely as it’s reaching the limit of the player.

 

[Buckie]

L

Was testing CA-1A with a bunch of amps. The A70pro is probably the most affordable solution on hand that delivers a decent experience. After testing I do think the burson and also Enleum is a touch nicer. Sadly the Enleum hpa-23rm will distort in base the moment the average listening volume is near 80db.

I’m estimating that CA-1A with interface TI-1B needs a amp that can output a good 2w to sound good and well powered.

And surprisingly my M17 can power the headphones while on battery powered. The bass is alittle weakened and less defined, likely as it’s reaching the limit of the player.

I was actually looking at Schiit Midgard, it's more affordable and gets plenty of power and no added frills. Don't know nothing about its quality but it should be all right perhaps.

 

[tassardar]

I was actually looking at Schiit Midgard, it's more affordable and gets plenty of power and no added frills. Don't know nothing about its quality but it should be all right perhaps.

Base on my test so far, any amp that delivers more then 1.5w per channel worked out for me at the levels I listen. The Midgard I feel should have absolutely no issue. I do feel is about how clean/good the power is rather then needing more than a few W of power.

 

[nojwe]

I was actually looking at Schiit Midgard, it's more affordable and gets plenty of power and no added frills. Don't know nothing about its quality but it should be all right perhaps.

Based on reviews the Midgard sounds pretty great too!