[sam6550a]

I swap between quads of RCA Clear Top 6cg7 and Raytheon Japan 6cg7 in the Freya N in my speaker setup:

Denafrips Ares I -> Freya N -> Hypex NC252MP power amp -> KLH Model 5 / Magnepan LRS / Triangle Genese Trio / CSS Audio Criton 1-TD

It's completely subjective and my setup is very different from yours, but to my ears, the RCA Clear Top is the softest/most laid back sounding and the Raytheon are slightly more linear/snap everything into focus just a touch more. Not a huge difference but that is my impression. Both are enjoyable to me and I change them depending on mood and speakers that I am using.

Only other tubes I have tried were a pair of Amperex "Bugle Boy" 6DJ8/ECC88 in the right side with stock on the left side and I didn't really care for it. I had heard that the Bugle Boys were among the best noval tubes so I was disappointed. But looking back on it, I don't think I gave them a fair shot because I didn't balance the overall heater current by using 6H6P (800 mA) or 6N6P (750 mA) in the left side so the heater current was perhaps too low to hear their potential. I have since sold them and I am happy with the quads of 6cg7 tubes so I feel no need to spend any more money on tubes.

Heater voltage is a constant, heater current is a function of the tube itself. Unlike plate current/operating point, tube filament current has nothing to do with the operating point [or sound] of the tube, filament power is only there to heat the cathode to promote thermionic emission. There will be no change in sound due to filament currents until you exceed the current capability of the filament supply and the voltage drops below the nominal voltage range.

 

[Zhon]

I swap between quads of RCA Clear Top 6cg7 and Raytheon Japan 6cg7 in the Freya N in my speaker setup:

Denafrips Ares I -> Freya N -> Hypex NC252MP power amp -> KLH Model 5 / Magnepan LRS / Triangle Genese Trio / CSS Audio Criton 1-TD

It's completely subjective and my setup is very different from yours, but to my ears, the RCA Clear Top is the softest/most laid back sounding and the Raytheon are slightly more linear/snap everything into focus just a touch more. Not a huge difference but that is my impression. Both are enjoyable to me and I change them depending on mood and speakers that I am using.

Only other tubes I have tried were a pair of Amperex "Bugle Boy" 6DJ8/ECC88 in the right side with stock on the left side and I didn't really care for it. I had heard that the Bugle Boys were among the best noval tubes so I was disappointed. But looking back on it, I don't think I gave them a fair shot because I didn't balance the overall heater current by using 6H6P (800 mA) or 6N6P (750 mA) in the left side so the heater current was perhaps too low to hear their potential. I have since sold them and I am happy with the quads of 6cg7 tubes so I feel no need to spend any more money on tubes.

The stock tubes honestly are pretty good, though I do feel (preemptively) that upgrades to the 6cg7 tubes are worth it for the relatively little cost. I am expecting two RCAs and 2 Raytheons today and will share some information as to how they sound with headphones.

 

[Zhon]

I got them!

Left: 2 Raytheon Japan 6CG7
Right: 2 RCA Grey Plate 6CG7 (Non-clear top version)

Subjective initial impressions (may change with burn-in, though I didn't notice burn-in with the stock tubes) - Right off the bat, the sound is slower and more relaxed than the stock tubes. Definitely has a darker sound, with less detail exposure compared to the stock tubes. The RCAs have more sub-bass rumble and less mid-bass punch compared to stock. Bass does have more texture, which I appreciate. Stock bass was too linear for me. Female vocals, upper mids, violins, etc. are more relaxed and laid back (very smooth and musical sounding, like the stereotypical tube sound). This changed from the stock tubes' high-intensity and detail-oriented presentation of this frequency range. Male vocals sound a bit laid-back. The treble is laid back as well. It is missing a bit of air and sparkle at the top. The overall sound is very coherent ("good flow") and musical. I think this is the strength of the RCAs, just a pleasant, darker, and smooth sound, albeit slower than stock. I do get the impression that the music is lulling me to sleep with certain tracks, which could be good or bad depending on the user preference. Despite such a presentation, the soundstage, separation, and imaging qualities are excellent. It feels slightly more intimate than stock but that may be just the reduced air up top and added sub-bass presence. No sense of muddiness whatsoever.

TLDR: Darker, slower, smoother sound with fewer microdetails than stock (still more than adequate), but very pleasing and easy to listen to. Sounds like a nice cuddly blanket. It will be more forgiving of bad recordings.

Now we try it the other way around.

Left: 2 RCA Grey Plate 6CG7
Right: 2 Raytheon Japan 6CG7

The Raytheon tubes sound excellent as well. The bass has around the same sub-bass presence but is much livelier and punchier sounding compared to the RCAs. These have the best bass out of the three, for certain. Mids are closer to the stock presentation than the RCAs' presentation. They are very detailed with a touch of musicality the 6N1P's didn't have. It might or might not change with burn-in. They are well-balanced as is, though I prefer the RCA presentation for this category. Treble combines the details of the 6N1P and adds a bit of "laid-backness" from the RCAs. Similar to the mids, it is closer to the stock presentation, but just does it better than the stock in terms of listenability. Lots of air and sparkle up top, but never as harsh as the stock tubes. It is ever-so-slightly thin sounding, maybe the definition will improve over time. Soundstage, imaging, and separation qualities are closer to stock compared to the intimacy of the RCAs. It is a very fast-sounding tube that is better than the stock in every way. This thing won't put you to sleep

TLDR: Better "stock" tubes. Similar detail to 6N1P but removes treble and upper-mid fatigue and glare (still very revealing), adds a touch of musicality to the mids, and has the best bass out of the three tubes. These rock for EDM and techno music.

Both these tubes are great, it most likely will depend on the mood. The sheer listenability of the RCAs is captivating, but it's not like the Raytheon tubes are far behind, and you get better bass with detail closer to stock. Hard decisions...

Left: Stock
Right: RCAs

The bass is immensely improved compared to when I had the Raytheon tubes for the left side (now just slightly behind the Raytheon tubes). Detail and air have improved also, just shy of the Raytheon tubes detail-wise. It seems that the 6N1P has imparted its detail-retrieval qualities just a bit onto the RCAs. Also very good.

After many socket combinations, I have stuck with the RCAs on the left and Raytheon tubes on the right. The stock tubes were just too detailed and forward when combined with different tubes.

 

[rsalas]

I've been very happy with my Freya+ using the JJ stock tubes on the left and a couple of matched Tung-Sol 6SN7 GT (tall glass dome black plates bottom getter) on the right, but unfortunately one of them died yesterday. It took me a while to find an identical match but I bought a replacement in eBay. Not sure yet about performance or true matching. We'll see when it gets here. But I've been reading the reissued version (Russian-made) is actually better, so I bought a matched pair to test. I'll report back.

In the meantime, I put a pair of RCA 5692 (black plate, triple mica) on the right. I haven't listened to those since I got them, and at that time I liked the Tung Sol better, so I never touched them again. So I figured it's a good moment to review them after a few hour listening.

First, let's get the obvious question out of the way: why the JJ tubes on the left. I listen primarily to classic and hard rock, and near-concert levels. I have an acoustically-treated dedicated audio room and no neighbors to worry about. The JJ tubes are tight, fast, and express full range behavior while not sounding like op-amp silicon. They work very well for rock, but I still only want their "influence", not their control, reason why they're on the left.

Back to the RCAs. Their bass is superb. Clean, deep, smooth and tight. On bass and noise level, better than the Tung-Sols. Mids are controlled and not exaggerated. Ideal for classic trumpet Jazz IMHO as well as rock that is harsher on the top-end, like Guns N' Roses. That said, they fail in my book for true audition-level albums, like The Dark Side of The Moon. They attenuate too much of the higher-level vocal range. They muffle any high-level 'air' from my point of view.

Now, depending on the type of music you listen to and the type of gear you have, that's totally fine. I bet they're great with electronica, but I'm afraid they may over-emphasize the bass. If you have not-quite-full-range speakers that should be a plus, but if you are like me and run full range systems, the bass may be a bit too exaggerated.

I have two pairs of main that I switch as I need. The RCAs sound better with my Legacy Audio Focus XD pair, which is already pretty intense on the high-end, so the softness there helps a lot. The bass, however is a bit too exaggerated if I use the internal amp of the speaker. The holographic feel is pretty good if you have 12"+ ceilings (less than that I believe it would be too harsh for most AMT tweeters except Mundorf). They do, however, sound better with my primary system, the Linkwitz LX521.4 open-baffle mains (IMO, the best speakers ever created) since they don't over-emphasize any holographic sense (the Linkwitz are already holographic enough by themselves).

Anyways, all this is totally subjective, like most of these things are. I will keep listening to these until the new Tung Sol arrive, and then I'll play around with different combinations. Isn't that why we obsess about all this? the endless pursue of unattainable perfection?

 

[wag12]

I've been very happy with my Freya+ using the JJ stock tubes on the left and a couple of matched Tung-Sol 6SN7 GT (tall glass dome black plates bottom getter) on the right, but unfortunately one of them died yesterday. It took me a while to find an identical match but I bought a replacement in eBay. Not sure yet about performance or true matching. We'll see when it gets here. But I've been reading the reissued version (Russian-made) is actually better, so I bought a matched pair to test. I'll report back.

In the meantime, I put a pair of RCA 5692 (black plate, triple mica) on the right. I haven't listened to those since I got them, and at that time I liked the Tung Sol better, so I never touched them again. So I figured it's a good moment to review them after a few hour listening.

First, let's get the obvious question out of the way: why the JJ tubes on the left. I listen primarily to classic and hard rock, and near-concert levels. I have an acoustically-treated dedicated audio room and no neighbors to worry about. The JJ tubes are tight, fast, and express full range behavior while not sounding like op-amp silicon. They work very well for rock, but I still only want their "influence", not their control, reason why they're on the left.

Back to the RCAs. Their bass is superb. Clean, deep, smooth and tight. On bass and noise level, better than the Tung-Sols. Mids are controlled and not exaggerated. Ideal for classic trumpet Jazz IMHO as well as rock that is harsher on the top-end, like Guns N' Roses. That said, they fail in my book for true audition-level albums, like The Dark Side of The Moon. They attenuate too much of the higher-level vocal range. They muffle any high-level 'air' from my point of view.

Now, depending on the type of music you listen to and the type of gear you have, that's totally fine. I bet they're great with electronica, but I'm afraid they may over-emphasize the bass. If you have not-quite-full-range speakers that should be a plus, but if you are like me and run full range systems, the bass may be a bit too exaggerated.

I have two pairs of main that I switch as I need. The RCAs sound better with my Legacy Audio Focus XD pair, which is already pretty intense on the high-end, so the softness there helps a lot. The bass, however is a bit too exaggerated if I use the internal amp of the speaker. The holographic feel is pretty good if you have 12"+ ceilings (less than that I believe it would be too harsh for most AMT tweeters except Mundorf). They do, however, sound better with my primary system, the Linkwitz LX521.4 open-baffle mains (IMO, the best speakers ever created) since they don't over-emphasize any holographic sense (the Linkwitz are already holographic enough by themselves).

Anyways, all this is totally subjective, like most of these things are. I will keep listening to these until the new Tung Sol arrive, and then I'll play around with different combinations. Isn't that why we obsess about all this? the endless pursue of unattainable perfection?

rsalas, thanks for your post about the RCA 5692 red base; I have been using them on the right side with LISST on the left and have been pretty happy with the sound. After reading your post I may try some other combinations as I have a lot of different tubes that I could try in place of the RCA 5692s.

I have pairs of these:
CBS Hytron 5692
GE 6SN7GTB
Sylvania 6SN7WGT
Raytheon 6SN7WGT
Reflector 68HC
Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB new issue

I have quads of these:
LISST
JJ 6SN7 new issue
Shuguang CV181-Z new issue
RCA VT-231 6SN7 Grey Glass

 

[Akis Papasavvas]

The reports of defects with the Freya N considering it's a new product is not very reassuring for long term ownership.

But I really don't even know of another tube preamp from any other manufacturer in this price range that has the same features as the Freya series.

Thankfully Schiit offers a nice warranty.

I understand but, Freya + does exactly the same. One of the best pre for the money but unfortunately Schiit does nothing about it. Only happens when messing around with tubes rolling or on tube mode.

 

[Akis Papasavvas]

Would it make any sense to have quad PSvane CV181-TII? If not, what would be the best non-NOS 6SN7 (current production) tube to pair with it?

For the Freya + Consider 6N23P Russian Reflector or Voskhot with ECC88/6922 to 6SN7 tube savers. Please check the voltage and specs. 6N23P amazing tubes.

 

[leubrich]

I understand but, Freya + does exactly the same. One of the best pre for the money but unfortunately Schiit does nothing about it. Only happens when messing around with tubes rolling or on tube mode.

My Freya N volume knob doesn't work fully with the remote. Buying second hand voids the warranty. Seems like a pretty severe mechanical issue that others have had for Schiit to not cover. This will definitely be my last purchase from Schiit and won't be recommending them to others.

 

[Akis Papasavvas]

My N also is out for repairs, the usual 12 o clock pop, and sometimes my remote volume doesn't work. But ultimately, what I need is to know why, even with a Vidar and 92 db efficient speakers, I can't get to listenable volume in tube mode, I don't get any sound until past 12...

Hi Orange50, any developments after repairs? The N has the same specs as the +?. From what I understand is the same pre with different tube sockets. I have the same pop with my N.

 

[Akis Papasavvas]

I had all the same issues with my Freya N that you guys are describing. Two different units. I tried every combination of XLR and RCA input/output. I tried the new tubes that Schiit sent me. I tried multiple sources, and multiple power amps, but the popping and volume jumps persisted.

To me, it seemed to be some kind of thermal issue. When I first powered on the Freya, and used it in either passive or jfet mode, I had no issues and everything worked perfectly. It was only after being in tube mode for a while, and the unit got hotter, that the popping would start. Once the Freya was hot, I could switch it back to passive or jfet, and the popping would persist in those modes as well until it cooled down a bit.

If I had bought this Freya used I would have been slightly perturbed, but would have learned to live with it because it sounded great. Lord knows I've had enough vintage gear with quirks. But this Freya was brand new, and shouldn't have ANY quirks, so I decided to return it. I ended up getting a Freya S and the volume control works perfectly, so I'm happy. I hope you guys get yours figured out.

@mch12000 spot on.
This is as close as it can get to to issue. The poping occurs when I am on tube rolling or on tube mode. If using passive or jfet mode no issues. Also noticed that when the unit gets hot the situation gets worst. Some people with knowledge are referring to the volume control and the resistors fail due to the

Try match quad low noise NOS tubes and see if the problem goes away

No it doesn't go away. Must be heat related, volume/resistors,(tupe sparks), capacitors in the heat circuit.

 

[Akis Papasavvas]

My Freya N volume knob doesn't work fully with the remote. Buying second hand voids the warranty. Seems like a pretty severe mechanical issue that others have had for Schiit to not cover. This will definitely be my last purchase from Schiit and won't be recommending them to others.

I understand but I still believe it is a very unique product. It is a apitty Schiit QC is not up to the standard. With what unit and brand you can you replace the Freya N?

 

[Orange5o]

My Freya N volume knob doesn't work fully with the remote. Buying second hand voids the warranty. Seems like a pretty severe mechanical issue that others have had for Schiit to not cover. This will definitely be my last purchase from Schiit and won't be recommending them to others.

Reach out to them, I bet they would honor the warranty in this case

 

[Orange5o]

Hi Orange50, any developments after repairs? The N has the same specs as the +?. From what I understand is the same pre with different tube sockets. I have the same pop with my N.

Yes, sent in for repair and it works great now.

 

[AstronomerXI]

My Freya N volume knob doesn't work fully with the remote. Buying second hand voids the warranty. Seems like a pretty severe mechanical issue that others have had for Schiit to not cover. This will definitely be my last purchase from Schiit and won't be recommending them to others.

You bought it second hand and say “this will be my last purchase from Schiit”. Alrighty then.

I have 8 Schiit products including the Freya N, and I’m very satisfied. A 9th (used) will be arriving soon, and when I order the upgraded Unison USB board, they’ll also give me 2 years warranty on the whole device. Their service and policies are excellent, IMHO.

 

[Akis Papasavvas]

Yes, sent in for repair and it works great now.

Any idea what they did? Was it just the volume / resistors or they changed some capacitors?