[Ripper2860]

DOH!! I thought it had COAX in. My bad. Disregard.

Obviously, I need more coffee.

** I've edited my original post.

 

[Bowmoreman]

Sheesh, step away for 24 hours and BOOM… cables (and nervosa) rear their heads again.

So, here’s where I am at.

In 1990, I was deciding on an end-game setup (speakers, amp/pre, tt/arm/cartridge, cabling)… Once I settled on Apogee Duetta Signatures, I worked backwards, looking for best synergies at every step. I (fortunately) had a friend that was co-owner of an excellent high-end shop in Arlington, MA. So I could literally try a huge variety of components and cables.

And, I did… for months.

I learned that Cables (speaker, especially) back then… mattered (a lot). The best sounding commercial cables (then) for Apogees was Symo; but it was, to me, “unaffordable” (and this, at a time when the entire rig cost was around $16.5K!). I just couldn’t go there, despite the (slightly) better sound.

So, what did I do? At the time, I worked for Stratus Computer and we had this amazing “grounding wire” that was used to ensure common ground across the racks of the fault tolerant computer. It was 2 guage stranded, 100% copper! Yes, 2 - freaking - guage!… So I got a bunch from work (it was free!) and built up a bi-wire set of 2 guage cables, with nice spades…

And it was GREAT. I raced it with the Symo, and for all intents and purposes, it was 99% of the way there.

Later, after I got married and RL happened, I needed longer speaker run AND needed it to be attractive, so I got some AudioQuest Emerald, and ran in in non-biwire fashion. It was NOT as good.

Now, I’m back to those home-made 2 gauge Bi-wires. They’re ugly, but damn do they let the current flow to the Duettas!

So, my conclusions over 35+ years now; with too much tweaking, and in some cases fey-mods/hacks are:

1. Virtually everything DOES have a “sound” (synergy, or otherwise), but most times it is in the “noise/don’t care”
2. Bi-wiring matters for SOME speakers (my Apogees, and prior to that my Vandersteen), and not others
3. Top quality interconnect is MOST important from cartridge to phono pre-amp; elsewhere, “good enough is good enough”
4. Balanced for interconnects is USUALLY better
5. There is NO need to spend mega bucks. I will happily “race” my custom 2 guage set against ANY/ALL other cables in any system at any time. And, I bet they’ll “win” (or at least tie). (Note: they are UGLY as heck!)
6. Using iron chokes around interconnects SOMETIMES helps reduce noise floor; and I’ve found in many cases it’s needed between transport and DAC for digital cables (though IME this is variable based on the amount of environmental “noise” present).

Those who wish to (as I did for decades) mess with cable routing towers and other such… go for it… but it really is “diminishing returns” level IMHO.l

All above in my experience, YMMV.

So, I guess that puts me “in the middle”

 

[Pondoro]

Serious question for everyone.

After 10 years here I may have missed it due to the sheer volume of posts, but on the Schiit Sine Wave, is there a point on the sine wave for the never ending topic of phoooolisnes of cables being a waste of money after a small sum and at what price point does that start?

If someone isn't mechanically inclined to build their own superior sounding cables for $23.79 is it buy a set for $59.00?

Still the newbie has to realize that their $59.00 will sound inferior to the $23.79 one! LOL, what a hobby.


So, a survey might help establish a "sign" to the newbies to fall in line with the tribal mentally of the sine wave threshold or go somewhere else. Because saying, "but do what you do" feels like a passive aggressive way of saying "you're an idiot".

For instance, here's a cable, outrageous price to some affordable to others.

Kind of middle ground, maybe.

https://danclarkaudio.com/catalog/product/view/id/43/s/vivo/category/91/

How many here vote the item as "A": "foolishness for spending the asked amount of money on something that can't matter sound wise, it's a ripoff."

How many say "B": "may be worth trying"

How many say "C": "anyone spending $4K on cans might as well be taken for an extra $300.00"

How many say "4", "too afraid to say"

I’m a mechanical engineer, in a prior life I used to wire houses. I now test non-audio stuff. I rub shoulders with electrical engineers. Some of those EE’s care about tiny signals in tiny wires. Some of them want huge charges (real honest lightning) to get the heck out of their stuff, without frying anything on the way. Almost never do they care about wire, other than, “Is it big enough?” or ”Is it shielded?” They often fret about connectors, and the tiny current types do not want unsupported wires to get vibrated (think of five inches of wire being whipped back and forth by a vibrating machine). Those electrical experts can literally cause damage, or death, if their designs go wrong. So I’m very skeptical of wire beyond, “Don’t be stupidly frugal.” But I will admit I’ve never done any wire testing.

 

[Moondog55]

I have a 15 year old niece who has just started to really engage with music. Probably 90% of what she listens to is via spotify, through ear buds. But she’s also into “vinyls” and one of the most rewarding listening sessions I’ve had this past year was spinning records late night with her over Christmas on her all-in-one turntable with built in speaker (and Bluetooth for streaming!). She has a mini collection of lps, some ‘her music’ and some stuff I’ve given her, and we’d spin something from hers, something from mine, etc. and now we’re trading streaming playlists. Her ‘vinyl player’ subjectively sounds like crap. But damn was that a good time listening to music.

I remember listening to the car radio, AM, single speaker in the center of the Buick's dashboard. Wow, the sound of The Beatles in that car. Really good music was on my 6-transistor radio with that single ear-plug, yes, mono sound. What was that FM thing we kept reading about, whada ya mean, gotta buy a whole new radio to get rid of that static. But back then and hopefully today, it was all about listening to music, a really good time listening to music. My first turntable was a hinged box, speaker in the top. The platter(haha) was the size of the 45's. Albums hung over the edges of the player, be careful to make sure the speaker top didn't fall on the record. Great, great sound. Listen to the music.

 

[Ohno Schiitizen]

I remember listening to the car radio, AM, single speaker in the center of the Buick's dashboard. Wow, the sound of The Beatles in that car. Really good music was on my 6-transistor radio with that single ear-plug, yes, mono sound. What was that FM thing we kept reading about, whada ya mean, gotta buy a whole new radio to get rid of that static. But back then and hopefully today, it was all about listening to music, a really good time listening to music. My first turntable was a hinged box, speaker in the top. The platter(haha) was the size of the 45's. Albums hung over the edges of the player, be careful to make sure the speaker top didn't fall on the record. Great, great sound. Listen to the music.

My first "air" music starts with AM radio too.

 

[OldRoadToad]

Subjective improvements? They will either make one feel better or bitter. That is where one's personal bar (i.e., the co$t) of buyer's remorse enters the equation. Once crossed, you either return the item(s) or effectively raise the bar, make the jump and tell yourself it was worth doing so.

Like any thing, everyone's mileage may vary. This is a hobby of both pleasure and pursuit.

ORT

 

[RCBinTN]

I remember listening to the car radio, AM, single speaker in the center of the Buick's dashboard. Wow, the sound of The Beatles in that car. Really good music was on my 6-transistor radio with that single ear-plug, yes, mono sound. What was that FM thing we kept reading about, whada ya mean, gotta buy a whole new radio to get rid of that static. But back then and hopefully today, it was all about listening to music, a really good time listening to music. My first turntable was a hinged box, speaker in the top. The platter(haha) was the size of the 45's. Albums hung over the edges of the player, be careful to make sure the speaker top didn't fall on the record. Great, great sound. Listen to the music.

I remember when we got our first car with an FM radio in it.
It was like a miracle ... no longer did the music go away when driving under an overpass!

 

[Ohno Schiitizen]

I remember when we got our first car with an FM radio in it.
It was like a miracle ... no longer did the music go away when driving under an overpass!

Now we have Carplay

 

[RCBinTN]

I learned about Alex and WyWires in Los Angeles early on via this thread. It was mentioned somewhere that Jason was using their Blue interconnects. As I was just upgrading my system from the early PYST cables, and had new headphones, too, I got in touch with Alex. That was maybe 10-years ago. I still use all WyWires cables today (see my profile if interested), for my simple HP system. So that's USB, interconnects and HP cables. I like having one source for all of those, and Alex is reliable. The SQ is just fine. YMMV, as always.

 

[Ripper2860]

As it relates to cables, cords, fuses -- here is my story:

1. I have a mental hard-stop at approx. $150 for a 6' pair of cables. Quality of the conductive and insulator materials as well as connectors is key. If I manage to hear an improvement (whether real or imagined), it is a bonus. Aesthetics matter here.
2. Inter-connect quality is where I tend to fuss, but again, I have a mental hard stop at approx. $70 for a 1-meter SE stereo cable. Shielding, grounding, connector quality, and electrical properties of low-level signals seems like where the emphasis should be, IMHO. I'll spend a bit more for XLR balanced cables. Aesthetics matter here. (WBC or Snake Oil are preferred vendors.)
3. Power cables is a hard-stop at approx. $80 for a standard IEC 5 ft. cable. Shielding to minimize/eliminate interference with low-level signal cables (see #2) and solid connection to the device and wall socket is my objective. Quality of the conductive material, connectors, design, and jacket matter to me here as does aesthetics. (All mine are Pangea AC-14)
4. Fuses? Well, I tried it and could not really hear a difference. Maybe my mind has a hard-stop and tells my ears -- 'don't be a dumb-ass'. Or maybe I had the fuses in backwards.

YMMV. IMHO.

 

[Les Strat]

There is a point in audio of diminishing returns. But that diminishing never seems to stop the increase in some folks ego.

We can draw a line but that's of little use to those that would snort it defiance of common sense. And cents. It makes no difference if some lay claim to hearing a difference and I do not. I like VU Meters and have never said that I can hear a difference when they are included in a system. I like the way they look. It makes me feel better because I grew up with them.

It is the same with vinyl. It makes me feel better. It takes me back and then brings me back. Here. Physical media can do that to some of us. But I will never claim vinyl is superior to digital just because I like it. That is silly. That is the way of the frAudiophile. If you're happy and you know it, clap your freakin' hands. Instead of belittling another person's choice in cartridge or their VTA or that they have SACD or worst of all...

...They just want to enjoy their music.


I may be wrong (it happens, LOL) but I think that's what Schiit was founded on. The enjoyment of your music within your budget. Schitt ain't crap and it definitely ain't the prettiest (to ME!) but it gives many people an affordable, QUALITY way to play back and enjoy their soundtrack. Fuque the blossoming soundscape and things like PRaT.

"Pace Rhythm and Timing". PRaT? Really. The definition of the word "prat" is this: "An incompetent or stupid person: an idiot." Fitting really.

And if this missive of mine gets me banned. Again? I give up. I've got better things to do than argue over whether or not I'm an idiot. I already know I am.

Jason, Mike and all the folks they employ deserve your business because they deliver on their promises. And promises are easy to keep when you set out to earn someone's business instad of givin' them the bidness. Enough of my ramblin'. G' Nite folks.

ORT out

Great post @OldRoadToad
I love your ‘undimmed’ enthusiasm for VU meters
I am very lucky to have three digital sources- CDs, ripped CDs on hard drive, Qobuz- plus vinyl.
I got back into vinyl about 2 years ago.
Like you, I can’t really claim that it is ‘better’ than digital, although it can sound great.
On purely objective grounds, there is no way I can justify the cost of all the kit…and the vinyl itself, so I won’t even try.
All rational, logical reasoning went out of the window when I re-entered the crazy world of vinyl, but I love it.
BTW, my ancient streamer has VU meters on it ( they are ‘faux’ meters but everyone comments on how cool they are).
They serve no real purpose whatsoever!
I think that’s part of their appeal.
Hope you don’t get banned, ORT!

Edit: I think PRaT was a marketing term coined by a well-known British Hi Fi manufacturer back in the 70s.
I’ll say no more, as I might risk offending their ‘fans’…

 

[Ripper2860]

I suspect ORT would wear his temp banning as a badge of honor!

 

[Erratic Gravy]

My first "air" music starts with AM radio too.

Yep -as a kid I fell asleep with one of these plugged in my ear most nights - always listening to radio Caroline , radio free Moscow ( yes really !! ) or the classic radio comedy shows .
I think the earpiece ' suggested the music being played ' and your imagination filled in the ' fidelity bit '

 

[Ohno Schiitizen]

As it relates to cables, cords, fuses -- here is my story:

1. I have a mental hard-stop at approx. $150 for a 6' pair of cables. Quality of the conductive and insulator materials as well as connectors is key. If I manage to hear an improvement (whether real or imagined), it is a bonus. Aesthetics matter here.
2. Inter-connect quality is where I tend to fuss, but again, I have a mental hard stop at approx. $70 for a 1-meter SE stereo cable. Shielding, grounding, connector quality, and electrical properties of low-level signals seems like where the emphasis should be, IMHO. I'll spend a bit more for XLR balanced cables. Aesthetics matter here. (WBC or Snake Oil are preferred vendors.)
3. Power cables is a hard-stop at approx. $80 for a standard IEC 5 ft. cable. Shielding to minimize/eliminate interference with low-level signal cables (see #2) and solid connection to the device and wall socket is my objective. Quality of the conductive material, connectors, design, and jacket matter to me here as does aesthetics. (All mine are Pangea AC-14)
4. Fuses? Well, I tried it and could not really hear a difference. Maybe my mind has a hard-stop and tells my ears -- 'don't be a dumb-ass'. Or maybe I had the fuses in backwards.

YMMV. IMHO.

Mine are (mental hard-stop) cheaper, 1/4 of the price you listed.

 

[Ripper2860]

I didn't say I'd spent that much. I said that was my hard-stop $$.