[l_simon_l]

.. nevermind

 

[chrisfromalbany]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius Resolution, as in how much info can be extracted from the source. To clarify, let me use an example. Suppose I took a landscape picture, and somewhere well off in the background is a flowerbed with tulips & daffodils. With a 3MP camera, you can see that there's some kind of flowers in the background, but you can't distinguish what they are. Now take that picture and run the sharpen & sharpen edges filter, then boost the contrast & fiddle with brightness, and now those flowers in the background really stand out. But you still can't tell what they are, they all still look rather alike. Using the 8MP camera, gives more resolution. The flowers won't stand out any more than with the un-edited 3MP picture, but you can now tell that yes, those are indeed tulips and daffodils in that flowerbed.

I understand your point. I don't think that resolution of a picture and detail in headphones is a direct correlation. But anyways, I don't agree. In my eyes, there is greater detail in SA5000s.

 

[chrisfromalbany]

..

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari In the case of a highly damped headphone like the SA5000 - you ABSOLUTELY need an amp with a lot of headroom to overcome the extremely high elasticity of the driver.

The SA5000 isn't highly damped. In fact it's underdampened...

...which leads to a hint of bathroom sound in original state.


BTW, unnaturally short decay can be caused by frequency imbalances and phase problems -- it's rather unlikely that it's the result of signal accuracy.
.

 

[aerius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari Think of this in terms of driver design. You want the driver to move with the signal...not on it's own. How do you explain the rapid decay in the case of SA5000 as a "fault" and the lethargic decay in other headphones as a "quality" ? If it is in the source material - you will hear it with the SA5000. Listening to Schindlers List theme track portrays the Violin in it's full splendour...with stunning body and emotion...

I don't think we're talking about the same kind of decays. You're talking about driver settling times, which is the settling & decay time of the headphone. I'm talking about the harmonics & decays of music, as in, what is on the CD.

Example, grand piano. Play a chord down low and hold the keys down. First you get the sound of the hammers striking the strings, then the sound of the strings & the soundboard combined with the sound of the piano's body. Then over the next 5 seconds, maybe more, the various resonances & harmonics slowly fade out, and the tone of the sound will change as this happens. This happens in live concerts, it's also true of my better recorded CD's when played on good gear. Doesn't happen on the SA5000. Grand pianos sound more like uprights, and decays instead of going for the full 5 seconds cut off in 3 or 4.

Now in terms of violin, reference in my case is 2 live Natalie MacMaster concerts, including one where she played unamplified for part of a set. I have a couple of her albums, on good gear, loudspeaker or headphone, it's remarkably close to the live sound. On the SA5000 or my Senn 580, there's a lot of missing harmonics & detail. Her violin sounds like the one I played in high school orchestra instead of the classic live-sounding instrument it is.

Quote:

In the case of a highly damped headphone like the SA5000 - you ABSOLUTELY need an amp with a lot of headroom to overcome the extremely high elasticity of the driver.

Would you say a Dynahi meets that qualification?

 

[jjcha]

Just so aerius doesn't feel alone in this, lately I've been leaning towards agreeing with what he's been saying. I don't know if I would say the PS-1 is more resolving, but I have been thinking along the lines of the megapixel comparisons/sharpening effect he's talking about when comparing the SA5000 with the K 1000 and Qualia 010. Actually it's the Shure E4c that made me notice this the most, as something that sounds very detailed, but somehow doesn't seem that resolving. Likewise when I compare my little Sony notebook, which is highly detailed sounding and punchy - but is it really resolving more musical information out of its headphone jack?

Details are certainly more noticable with the SA5000 and E4c and from my Sony, but somehow it just seems to lack a depth I get with the K 1000 or 010 or DAC64. I don't know. I mean from day one, I've always thought the SA5000 had more seperation and the distinctness of sounds was more noticable than from the 010, but the quality of the resolution I'm feeling lately is lacking, which is why the 010 is capable of producing a sound that comes closer to simulating something real in terms of tone and texture than the SA5000.

To some degree I need to think about this, but I think there's something definitely to this.

Best regards,

-Jason

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

...you ABSOLUTELY need an amp with a lot of headroom to overcome the extremely high elasticity of the driver.

Independent of the SA5000 discussion: this is crude layman's wisdom.
.

 

[applebook]

The SA5000 clearly emphasizes HFs, so to call it "neutral" is plain incorrect. It's several shades bright of neutral.

There's no proof that the SA5000 "reveals" anything in sources rather than accentuates or completely colors it.

 

[akwok]

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook The SA5000 clearly emphasizes HFs, so to call it "neutral" is plain incorrect. It's several shades bright of neutral. There's no proof that the SA5000 "reveals" anything in sources rather than accentuates or completely colors it.

Agreed.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

oh dear god, another SA5K hater-fest!

 

[aerius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer oh dear god, another SA5K hater-fest!

You call this a "hater-fest"? It barely qualifies as a heated discussion in my books. A "hater-fest" is when 20 people proclaim that they've shat out better sounding pieces of crap than the gear in question being dumped on.

Here's a hint. The title of this thread is NOT "The SA5000 Love-fest & Appreciation Thread", thus negative opinions can and are to be expected.

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook The SA5000 clearly emphasizes HFs, so to call it "neutral" is plain incorrect. It's several shades bright of neutral. There's no proof that the SA5000 "reveals" anything in sources rather than accentuates or completely colors it.

And what is your reference for "neutral" ? You need a reference if you are going to talk about treble and bass etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius I don't think we're talking about the same kind of decays. You're talking about driver settling times, which is the settling & decay time of the headphone. I'm talking about the harmonics & decays of music, as in, what is on the CD

I think I understand what you are driving at. This is sort of similar to the TUBE vs SS argument in a way right?

I agree that there are headphones that are a lot more musical than the SA5000. Just as there are some Tube amps like the Rudistor that should theoretically sound WRONG...but end up sounding wonderful.

This is the reason why most people prefer to have wood in their homes, flooring, tables, inside their cars...etc. Wood is such a inconsistent material

But it is wood...has a sense of "life" to it...warmth

If my argument held good in EVERY scenario then everyone would have stainless steel floors and toilet seats

Even in winter

LOL


I agree that the SA5000 isnt the be all and end all...it has it's uses and it excels in those areas. I can name certain CDs that I would NOT want to listen to with the SA5000...


Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius Would you say a Dynahi meets that qualification?

Absolutely...no doubt about it...possibly the most synergistical amp for the SA5000 and HP1000...Melos included...

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ Independent of the SA5000 discussion: this is crude layman's wisdom. .

I am no layman. I am an engineer with quite a bit of experience in these matters. If you would rather offer some sort of explanation instead of throwing your pathetic insults around, it would probably have the effect you are trying to hard to get - make you look good...

As far as your idea of damping - I am NOT talking about the chamber or driver housing. I dont think the SA5000 has a bathroom sound either. I am talking about the control over the driver when I say "damping".

What this means is that, the driver doesnt FLOP about in response to a signal - it is taut and harder to move. Extension just isnt there without a more powerful amp. A weak amplifier will be unable to control the movement of the driver. There will be a delay between the signal, and the driver responding to that signal in either direction, when the amplifier is not up to the task.

A strong amplifier will be able to move the driver with the speed that is necessary to keep up with the audio signal.

 

[Patu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook The SA5000 clearly emphasizes HFs, so to call it "neutral" is plain incorrect. It's several shades bright of neutral.

I disagree.

SA5000 is the closest thing to neutral after K701 among the dynamic headphones I've heard. If we imagine a scale of 1 to 10 and 1 is 'very dark' and 10 is 'very bright' then SA5000 would be 6 on my scale. Compared to RS-1 with bowls (and pretty much all the other Grado's I've heard), SA5000 sounds almost dark and muffled at high frequencies.

Just for reference what some other cans would be compared to SA5000.

650's: 2
RS-1 (bowls): 8
RS-1 (flat pads): 4-5
SR225 (bowls): 8
SR325i (bowls): 10
K701: 6

Something like that. I know there are brighter headphones than SR325i and maybe even darker headphones than 650s but this is among the dynamic cans I've heard.

After all, it's all about what your ears are used to.

 

[applebook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari And what is your reference for "neutral" ? You need a reference if you are going to talk about treble and bass etc.

Well, this is an SA5000/ 701 thread, so the reference would have to be the 701, but I've never heard the latter, so I'll just quote Tyll as saying that the SA5000 is "too bright."