[Von Soundcard]

I am looking for a pair of phones to listen to voice and accoustical instruments.

They should be forward, light, 'sparkling' - but without being lean, harsh or too bright. Great with women's voices (and most of men's voices) as well as accoustic instruments like the violin and generally strings and also piano and its predecessors. And electric guitars too (especially solo), it that's not too much

Even though I want a natural and generally transparent phone, they should convey emotion well.

The budget is 300 - 400 Euros (up to 600 $) new. I will only buy new. The cans should not be closed and I'd like them not to be too heavy. Also they must be circumaural.

So what do you recommend ? Comments and descriptions of your choices, as well as comparisons to other possible options are appreciated.

 

[Steve_72]

Although I have no experience with them, I might suggest looking into Audio Technica's AD-2000. I've done a bit of reading up on them myself, and they seem to fit your requirements fairly well.

 

[krmathis]

Well, you pretty much described the Stax Lamdba's. Am SR-303 or SR-404.

They are open back and light on the head. Sound wise they are fast, a bit on the bright side, and with a great headstage. Imo they shine on female vocals (try Katie Melua or Diana Krall), and on acoustic music.

I highly recommend you check them out!

 

[facelvega]

Yes, this is the kind of music for which planar drivers are far more convincing than any traditional dynamic headphones-- and far better than the K340 I know you're thinking of. Unfortunately, this doesn't jibe particulary well with your urge for only the new, since about 95 of the 100 best planar headphones are no longer in production. The next problem is that your budget and insistence on circumaural leaves only one option out of the five, the Stax 2050 II system, which you can get shipped to Europe for 317 Euros from Pricejapan.com. Problem solved.

 

[Von Soundcard]

To set some common ground, I consider the HD595 already too harsh and lean, a bit too dark (for voice and accoustic), without enough substance and unconvincing in expressing emotion.
The phones I'm looking for need to 'shine' as well as express the full emotion and complexity of various vocal genres, from opera and choral to pop and rock sopranos.

Also I can't try any headphones besides Senns in my area (and I already have the 650). I'll just have to order a pair once I'm convinced it's the right choice for me. They will most likely be paired with a tube amp, like a Woo below 1000$.

 

[Davesrose]

If you have the HD650, you might want to consider source/ amp upgrades for it. STAX Lambdas are the opposites of the HD650. Personally, I found that once I got a system for the HD650, it was the headphone that nailed it for getting the best timbre of an acoustic instrument. To my ears, Lamdas tend to be too bright and lean for stringed instruments. Of course the HD650 is the opposite where it can be too dark. You might find it easier to get the HD600 to go with your system. Get your amp first, then try taking it to wherever you can go demo those Senns

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by facelvega /img/forum/go_quote.gif The next problem is that your budget and insistence on circumaural leaves only one option out of the five, the Stax 2050 II system, which you can get shipped to Europe for 317 Euros from Pricejapan.com. Problem solved.

Well, all the in-production lambda's (SR-202, SR-303 and SR-404) fall in below his €3-400 limit.

Here are the current prices at Pricejapan:
* SR-202 = €317 (with SRM-252A amplifier)
* SR-303 = €224
* SR-404 = €262

He only mention headphones. So I think its fair to keep amplification out, since thats needed for dynamic headphones as well..

 

[Von Soundcard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you have the HD650, you might want to consider source/ amp upgrades for it. STAX Lambdas are the opposites of the HD650. Personally, I found that once I got a system for the HD650, it was the headphone that nailed it for getting the best timbre of an acoustic instrument. To my ears, Lamdas tend to be too bright and lean for stringed instruments. Of course the HD650 is the opposite where it can be too dark. You might find it easier to get the HD600 to go with your system. Get your amp first, then try taking it to wherever you can go demo those Senns

The thing is I dont wand an amp too bright or harsh or 'clinical'. I want a rich and warm sound without it being too colored or closed, something in the middle but... on the warm side

The 650 are good at most things, but they do not excel at 'forward' and 'shining' instruments like strings, early claviers, the upper piano range, and also women's voices (probably also men's alto) and solo electric guitars (think AC-DC, Metallica, but also older figures). I don't thing I'll ever be able to hear these types of voices at their best, therefore I'm looking for a headphone capable of fully expressing them. It's not only about the timber but also the emotion and the 'virtuosity'.

That is not to say I'm looking for the opposite of Sens; they will have to share many of the Senn traits which I like, such as smoothness, emotion, body (maybe not that much...) and warmth (idem). However they will have to complement them by being more forward, lighter, shining... without being too bright

and express their full potential in the mids up to the lower highs.

I'll check out the Stax. Any other likely candidates ?
Edit: I would also consider closed phones if there are no other better options (AKG K271S ?) From what I've read the Stax are too treble-heavy and impersonal for my taste, but I'll keep looking.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Soundcard /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is not to say I'm looking for the opposite of Sens; they will have to share many of the Senn traits which I like, such as smoothness, emotion, body (maybe not that much...) and warmth (idem). However they will have to complement them by being more forward, lighter, shining... without being too bright and express their full potential in the mids up to the lower highs. I'll check out the Stax. Any other likely candidates ? Edit: I would also consider closed phones if there are no other better options (AKG K271S ?) From what I've read the Stax are too treble-heavy and impersonal for my taste, but I'll keep looking.

Sounds like you should demo a HD600 paired with a Woo amp (that way you can also keep your HD650 for the bigger symphonies as well)

If you haven't heard the HD600 yet, I think you should. It does have a slightly brighter upper mid register as well. So personally, I find it's soundstage is a bit smaller then the HD650 and can render solo instruments/ vocals very well. Oh, and also, believe it or not, but a HD650 also does really well with a tube amp. I like the same amp and tubes for my HD650 and Grados....go figure! I think that it's the HD650 just opens up with plenty of power.

I am not a STAX expert at all, but I do think that Lamdas will indeed be too bright. There are some older STAX that are supposed to be better balanced though.....krmathis might be able to shed some light there

Certainly trying some AKGs is another option as well....with my own audio journey, I just found them to have the same qualities that I didn't like about stats either. From what you are looking for, though, I do think looking at STAX or AKG is a possibility. ATs and Beyers, at least to my ears, seem to have too much recession to handle acoustic. I also have a hunch that you're in an area that doesn't ever see Grados.....but those make the best ever compliments to Senns

 

[Von Soundcard]

I cannot hear anything in my area, other than some (mid-range) Senns and a few other forgetable phones. The answer may lie with the AKGs or Grados, and then I shall have to find the most smooth, balanced, full-sounding and musical models of their ranges and just order the one that looks more promising.

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif He only mention headphones. So I think its fair to keep amplification out, since thats needed for dynamic headphones as well..

Don't take the low road! Rather, insist that dynamic advocates factor in the cost of an appropriate amp when they mention prices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Soundcard /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll check out the Stax. Any other likely candidates ? Edit: I would also consider closed phones if there are no other better options (AKG K271S ?) From what I've read the Stax are too treble-heavy and impersonal for my taste, but I'll keep looking.

I think you're right to avoid the Senns for your preferences, especially the HD650, which I think you're right is the opposite of . I wouldn't go for a K271S, either, though, they're fine but not up to the standard of the other options.

Also, don't believe what the naysayers say about Stax, try for yourself whenever you can. Treble-heavy? Not at all, very balanced. Impersonal? Quite the opposite, the most personal headphones I've ever heard. Personally I can barely stand dynamic headphones anymore for precisely the sort of things you say you want from your next pair, they just sound artificial and grating up against planars.

 

[Mink]

AKG K601's comes to mind (according to many reviews I read, I never auditioned them myself)

- Open cans
- More forward than Sennheisers
- Warm mids, not dark though
- Very good with vocals
- Better looking than bigger brother the K701.

 

[Von Soundcard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mink /img/forum/go_quote.gif AKG K601's comes to mind (according to many reviews I read, I never auditioned them myself) - Open cans - More forward than Sennheisers - Warm mids, not dark though - Very good with vocals - Better looking than bigger brother the K701.

Well it's that "warm mids" part I'm not so sure about, as people tend to disagree

In any case they seem like the most likely choice form AKG's 'non-pro' range, the other being the K271S which I've also heard is good with voices and closer to the Senn sound than most.

Another option I've read about are the Alessandro MS2 which seem to be a warmer and smoother version of Grados. I wonder if their sound is really that much closer to what I want and if an OTL tube amp (like the Woo3 or Woo2) matches well with them.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Soundcard /img/forum/go_quote.gif Another option I've read about are the Alessandro MS2 which seem to be a warmer and smoother version of Grados. I wonder if their sound is really that much closer to what I want and if an OTL tube amp (like the Woo3 or Woo2) matches well with them.

See....it looks like you're more interested in headphone amps then headphones!!!

Honestly, I do think you should hold off on getting headphones until you get a good OTL tube amp. My tube amp is a good OTL amp that handles Senns and Grados equally well. They also open up Senns.....which it sounds like that's what you're looking for (I keep reading warm mids but sparkly from ya: HD600 or HD650 with a good tube amp does that). I find that the SR325i is more upfront then the Alessandros, and a better distinction from Senns.

 

[Von Soundcard]

That's probably what I'll do anyway

- get the amp and then see how it drives the 650s and how it responds to tube rolling (right now I'm thinking about woo3 or woo2, but the choice is open).

Yet it would be nice to know what my alternatives are, how they are priced and if I can find them anywhere near. So if anyone has other suggestions... you know what to do