[Hypops]

I am currently using Dawn Pro with 600 for portable use, great pair but SnowyNight produces the bass & mids better (way better). Apple Dongle is a no-go, anything below 4Vrms will sound bad in 600

On the other hand, my Singxer SA-1 can put out well over 4V into 300 ohms, but the HD 600 still sounds meh on it.

 

[TinearedOne]

On the other hand, my Singxer SA-1 can put out well over 4V into 300 ohms, but the HD 600 still sounds meh on it.

Do you think that’s because it’s a warm and smooth amp instead of being more aggressive? Just curious.

 

[Argha]

On the other hand, my Singxer SA-1 can put out well over 4V into 300 ohms, but the HD 600 still sounds meh on it.

Do you think that’s because it’s a warm and smooth amp instead of being more aggressive? Just curious.

Yeah, HD600's DD is very tricky to handle. Still can't comment on anything that I haven't tried yet.

 

[Hypops]

Do you think that’s because it’s a warm and smooth amp instead of being more aggressive? Just curious.

I don't find the Singxer warm at all. I know some do, but I'd guess that has more to do with other gear and cables in the chain. In my experience, it's an amp that is highly transparent to upstream gear and cables.

I'm not sure why it doesn't sound great with the HD 600. The most obvious reason would be the very low output impedance. Perhaps over-damps the driver so it sounds a bit lifeless. The high-z impedance setting also does nothing to help since it only takes it up to ~10 ohms at the output. I'm beginning to see why so many people swear by OTL amps with the HD 600. It's probably not the tubes that bring them to life; it's the high output impedance.

 

[TinearedOne]

I don't find the Singxer warm at all. I know some do, but I'd guess that has more to do with other gear and cables in the chain. In my experience, it's an amp that is highly transparent to upstream gear and cables.

I'm not sure why it doesn't sound great with the HD 600. The most obvious reason would be the very low output impedance. Perhaps over-damps the driver so it sounds a bit lifeless. The high-z impedance setting also does nothing to help since it only takes it up to ~10 ohms at the output. I'm beginning to see why so many people swear by OTL amps with the HD 600. It's probably not the tubes that bring them to life; it's the high output impedance.

Why I'm itching to find out about Valhalla 3.

 

[TWerk]

HD 600 was my first love as an audiophile all those years ago and is still on of my favorite headphones. I'll always have at least 1 in my collection.

Same, I've sold all my open backs in favor of the 600. They are that good. Others for me detail a little better, soundstage etc but it eventually fatigues and just I always felt like the HD600 did most of the sound without any fatigue. It captures what I need and rolls off the harsh bits up top. They are just spot on for me.

Happy listening.

 

[kman1211]

Same, I've sold all my open backs in favor of the 600. They are that good. Others for me detail a little better, soundstage etc but it eventually fatigues and just I always felt like the HD600 did most of the sound without any fatigue. It captures what I need and rolls off the harsh bits up top. They are just spot on for me.

Happy listening.

The HD 600 is tied with the HD 660S2 as my favorite of the HD 6xx line. But sadly it's upper mids/lower treble cause me listening fatigue so it's not my main HD 6xx headphone. If not for that it would likely be my most used HD 6xx headphone as it sounds the most organic of the HD 6xx headphones. Have to use other open-back headphones for long sessions such as the HD 660S2, R70x, and T1.3.

 

[TWerk]

I have zero listening fatigue with them, but I know everyone is sensitive in different regions and I certainly have experienced it myself with MANY headphones.

Also, of course amp pairing will play a role as always.

 

[kman1211]

I have 0 fatigue with them, but I know everyone is sensitive in different regions and I certainly have experienced it myself with MANY headphones. Also of course amp will play a role.

Yeah so it's a catch 22, I really like how it portrays vocals and mids and it's the HD 6xx headphone I want to listen to the most but my ears protest with it. My ears don't like strong upper mids sadly, I'm more sensitive to upper mids and lower treble than upper or mid treble. With the HD 650 I can listen to without fatigue despite finding it hard sounding in the upper mids, but I dislike that headphone, something about it's sound rubs me the wrong way. No problem with the HD 660S, but also doesn't come across as special. The HD 660S2 is quite special, but it's pretty dark in the upper mids/lower treble. Not tonally or timbrally wrong or anything but takes a step back there. The S2 sounds very different than the S1 to me.

Maybe on a different system the HD 600 or even the HD 650's problems for me will be addressed. I only just recently addressed the issues I had with the HD 660S2.

 

[457139]

I don't find the Singxer warm at all. I know some do, but I'd guess that has more to do with other gear and cables in the chain. In my experience, it's an amp that is highly transparent to upstream gear and cables.

I'm not sure why it doesn't sound great with the HD 600. The most obvious reason would be the very low output impedance. Perhaps over-damps the driver so it sounds a bit lifeless. The high-z impedance setting also does nothing to help since it only takes it up to ~10 ohms at the output. I'm beginning to see why so many people swear by OTL amps with the HD 600. It's probably not the tubes that bring them to life; it's the high output impedance.

It's the Singxer. I had it for a while. Both 600 and 650 sounded too soft on it

 

[Argha]

I don't find the Singxer warm at all. I know some do, but I'd guess that has more to do with other gear and cables in the chain. In my experience, it's an amp that is highly transparent to upstream gear and cables.

I'm not sure why it doesn't sound great with the HD 600. The most obvious reason would be the very low output impedance. Perhaps over-damps the driver so it sounds a bit lifeless. The high-z impedance setting also does nothing to help since it only takes it up to ~10 ohms at the output. I'm beginning to see why so many people swear by OTL amps with the HD 600. It's probably not the tubes that bring them to life; it's the high output impedance.

100% The OI greately improves the HP. In my DP/Profile Picture I was using Anode Acoustics #1 with high output impedance. The impedance curve is very challenging to handle for this headphone.

 

[jonathan c]

I don't find the Singxer warm at all. I know some do, but I'd guess that has more to do with other gear and cables in the chain. In my experience, it's an amp that is highly transparent to upstream gear and cables.

I'm not sure why it doesn't sound great with the HD 600. The most obvious reason would be the very low output impedance. Perhaps over-damps the driver so it sounds a bit lifeless***. The high-z impedance setting also does nothing to help since it only takes it up to ~10 ohms at the output. I'm beginning to see why so many people swear by OTL amps with the HD 600. It's probably not the tubes that bring them to life; it's the high output impedance.***

*** Bingo !! .... The tube h/p/a, whether OTC or OTL, that have higher output impedance do bring hi-Z headphones to life. There is nothing wrong with a damping factor (load impedance source impedance) between 1x and 3x; 300x might be overkill.
• Also, do not assume that an OTL tube h/p/a de facto has high output impedance. Examples that do not include: LTA MZ2, LTA MZ3, LTA Velo, Schiit Valhalla 2.

 

[BS5711]

I know that it is a very popular opinion that the HD600 really excel off a tube amp.

Jonathan c says that a transformer coupled amp is a good option if it has a high output impedance. Pretty sure I have seen his pics of HD600 with a Woo WA6 amongst others.

I had a Woo Audio WA6 that I bought exclusively for my HD600 and despite an output impedance of around 50-60 ohms there was no magic for me.

I actually prefer the HD600 driven by my iFi Diablo battery powered portable DAC/amp. The measurements of the Diablo indicate that it excels into a high impedance load and some measurements Golden Sound did in the Diablo thread show it to live up to the published specifications of around 19 volts into 300 ohms or something around 600mw.

I saw another post here a few days back that talked about an OTL bringing nuances that gelled with instrumental or classical music, neither of which I am interested in, and the general tonality and timbre not changing notably on tubes versus solid state amplification.

Another old thread somewhere involved measurements on an OTL versus a solid state amplifier and the difference was only a single db across the bass region. I don’t recall the amp used, maybe a Bottlehead Crack ?

Maybe I don’t listen to music that shows off the benefit of tubes or maybe I don’t describe what is to me a subtle change at very best as meaningful and significant. If there is something worthwhile I wasn’t to hear it not have to listen for it.

Not a popular opinion but based on my limited experience and my ears I think the whole tube thing with HD600 is well overstated. I bought the WA6 that cost three times the price of the headphones then spent half the price of the headphones on a 1960’s Philips Miniwatt GZ34 rectifier and 1970’s RCA driver tubes and I wanted to love the combination but sonically there was nothing there for me.

I sold the WA6, put the money into IEM and now very happily run my HD600 with Forza Audioworks cable from the 4.4mm of the bright red portable Diablo and enjoy them more.

 

[bagwell359]

Yeah so it's a catch 22, I really like how it portrays vocals and mids and it's the HD 6xx headphone I want to listen to the most but my ears protest with it. My ears don't like strong upper mids sadly, I'm more sensitive to upper mids and lower treble than upper or mid treble. With the HD 650 I can listen to without fatigue despite finding it hard sounding in the upper mids, but I dislike that headphone, something about it's sound rubs me the wrong way. No problem with the HD 660S, but also doesn't come across as special. The HD 660S2 is quite special, but it's pretty dark in the upper mids/lower treble. Not tonally or timbrally wrong or anything but takes a step back there. The S2 sounds very different than the S1 to me.

Maybe on a different system the HD 600 or even the HD 650's problems for me will be addressed. I only just recently addressed the issues I had with the HD 660S2.

The formula that works for me:

Source: CD or better
DAC: R2R
Amp: Class A OTL or High Impedance SS/Hybrid/Tubes with transformers w/ high impedance

if that's not enough - then PEQ - can get a bit more bass between 35-70 Hz, tamp down on the 3.2kHz rise and a bit on the 5.5kHz areas, and raise the 8.8kHz area

Note: Agree the Valhalla 2 was a disappointment.

 

[bagwell359]

*** Bingo !! .... The tube h/p/a, whether OTC or OTL, that have higher output impedance do bring hi-Z headphones to life. There is nothing wrong with a damping factor (load impedance source impedance) between 1x and 3x; 300x might be overkill.
• Also, do not assume that an OTL tube h/p/a de facto has high output impedance. Examples that do not include: LTA MZ2, LTA MZ3, LTA Velo, Schiit Valhalla 2.

Valhalla 2 was a disappointment,

I know that it is a very popular opinion that the HD600 really excel off a tube amp.

Jonathan c says that a transformer coupled amp is a good option if it has a high output impedance. Pretty sure I have seen his pics of HD600 with a Woo WA6 amongst others.

I had a Woo Audio WA6 that I bought exclusively for my HD600 and despite an output impedance of around 50-60 ohms there was no magic for me.

I actually prefer the HD600 driven by my iFi Diablo battery powered portable DAC/amp. The measurements of the Diablo indicate that it excels into a high impedance load and some measurements Golden Sound did in the Diablo thread show it to live up to the published specifications of around 19 volts into 300 ohms or something around 600mw.

I saw another post here a few days back that talked about an OTL bringing nuances that gelled with instrumental or classical music, neither of which I am interested in, and the general tonality and timbre not changing notably on tubes versus solid state amplification.

Another old thread somewhere involved measurements on an OTL versus a solid state amplifier and the difference was only a single db across the bass region. I don’t recall the amp used, maybe a Bottlehead Crack ?

Maybe I don’t listen to music that shows off the benefit of tubes or maybe I don’t describe what is to me a subtle change at very best as meaningful and significant. If there is something worthwhile I wasn’t to hear it not have to listen for it.

Not a popular opinion but based on my limited experience and my ears I think the whole tube thing with HD600 is well overstated. I bought the WA6 that cost three times the price of the headphones then spent half the price of the headphones on a 1960’s Philips Miniwatt GZ34 rectifier and 1970’s RCA driver tubes and I wanted to love the combination but sonically there was nothing there for me.

I sold the WA6, put the money into IEM and now very happily run my HD600 with Forza Audioworks cable from the 4.4mm of the bright red portable Diablo and enjoy them more.

It was indeed the BHC used in the test you mention. The slight bass rise is far from the whole story. My BHCs and the other stock BHC I have heard lay waste to my Rag 1 and the Bryston BHA-1 I have heard it on - full stop - all other conditions being equal - on my HD-600 and borrowed HD-800 and 800S. Soundstage width and depth, harmonics, more palpable and yes warmer and more liquid too. The bass is slightly less damped - hence a bit louder. Some of it from more HD.