[Gilles De Rais]

These are multi BA IEMs. AFAIK they have not-so-different sound signature from one another. How would you compare them to the hybrid K3003? I'm more into clarity, separation and sound stage these days...

You are correct the Nobles do not have that varied a sound signature amongst themselves, however compared to other flagship iems they may differ. There is a fairly good summation of flagship iems here https://head-fi.org/threads/ranking...ut-introduction-and-reviews-on-page-1.826876/. The reviews cover the different driver technologies and the strengths and weaknesses of each design. Again note that it doesn't cover stuff that has already been mentioned in this thread/discussion

At this point I think there are some questions you need to ask yourself. These would be:

• Am I seeking a complement or a replacement for the K3003?
• Is there an aspect of the K3003 i find lacking?
• Can that aspect be changed by other means eg new dap?
• If not, how much would i pay for an incremental improvement on that aspect in an iem?
• Are there any compromises I would accept in seeking that improvement, eg comfort, reduction in other sound aspects,?
• Would the type of music I listen to benefit from these perceived improvements (don't laugh - if your music is dynamically constricted, poorly recorded or otherwise constrained it may not be worth it)
• Would my source be appropriate for those perceived improvements?
• Where can I test any prospective alternates?

At the moment you're talking about spending at least $1500 on an iem. For that money I would (and do) need to actually hear the alternates to justify expenditure. Relying on opinions from forums may expand your understanding of the capabilities/strengths/weaknesses of various iems, but it is no substitute for what you and your ears perceive. No idea where you are in the States but I'd take a trip somewhere just to hear what I was buying at this price range.

regards,

Giles

 

[ruthieandjohn]

Wonder how one predicts coherence from these frequency response graphs? (@613x "K3003 should be a little bit more coherent...")? Thanks for any info.

 

[613x]

Wonder how one predicts coherence from these frequency response graphs? (@613x "K3003 should be a little bit more coherent...")? Thanks for any info.

The more linear the graph, the more coherent sound you should get. Roughly.

JH Angie is 8 BA IEM. Tweaking each BA to respond in its frequency with minimum overlap make the sound coherent. You can tell that JH Audio made a remarkable job just from checking Angie FR graph, which is quite linear and comparable to K3003 ("only" a 2BA + DD hybrid).
It has "integrated 4th order crossover" according to its product page.

I recommend you to check - Jerry Harvey: "The Rise of the In-Ear Monitor" | Talks at Google



He is something

 

[613x]

You are correct the Nobles do not have that varied a sound signature amongst themselves, however compared to other flagship iems they may differ. There is a fairly good summation of flagship iems here https://head-fi.org/threads/ranking...ut-introduction-and-reviews-on-page-1.826876/. The reviews cover the different driver technologies and the strengths and weaknesses of each design. Again note that it doesn't cover stuff that has already been mentioned in this thread/discussion

Thank you for your time and patience. You're really great!
I'm already familiar with this thread. However it mostly consists of CIEM's. Dita Dream's got me interested though. Only few head-fiers have it. It's made by a really small boutique company. Hard to find for audition. Don't know about it's serviceability and resale-ability. I'm also a little sceptic how much you can squeeze out one DD. But one can always be surprised.

• Am I seeking a complement or a replacement for the K3003?

An all rounder replacement please!

• Is there an aspect of the K3003 i find lacking?

I miss IE800 sub-bass and bass texture which were quite amazing. I could sometimes feel it in my chest. Psychoacoustics...
Can't complain about k3003's mids really. The treble is tricky though. Can't it stay with the same airiness and sparkle but at the same time be a little smoother. Maybe it's unachievable. This is what I'm trying to find out.
Soundstage can be sometimes too wide?! I mean Its depth and height are trailing behind its width. Sometime I have the feeling the music is disjointed or less holistic.
It's not the most comfortable IEM you know.

• Can that aspect be changed by other means eg new dap?

My main driver is 2017 15" MacBook Pro which is considered to be not bad. Sometimes I even use Sansa Clip+ (Rockbox'd). Don't laugh as it has a reasonably fair DAC. I use IEM because I value portability. Carrying around more accessories IMO is missing the whole point of being portable.

• If not, how much would i pay for an incremental improvement on that aspect in an iem?

Don't know really. Depends how severe is my upgraditis at a certain time.

• Are there any compromises I would accept in seeking that improvement, eg comfort, reduction in other sound aspects,?

I want a better sound. Maybe small comfortability trade off.

• Would the type of music I listen to benefit from these perceived improvements (don't laugh - if your music is dynamically constricted, poorly recorded or otherwise constrained it may not be worth it)

Everyting really. From classic to electronic avant garde (Porter Robinson, Madeon, Röyksopp etc). Maybe some movies and video games (recently enjoyed Hellblade - a game with binaural recorded sound).
I found recently that properly ripped vinyl can sound much better than a CD. I reckon that Hi-Res is way overhyped and good audio mastering is (almost) the only thing that matters.

• Would my source be appropriate for those perceived improvements?

I want to believe that yes. Low impedance IEM don't really scale up too well AFIK. Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

• Where can I test any prospective alternates?

At the moment you're talking about spending at least $1500 on an iem. For that money I would (and do) need to actually hear the alternates to justify expenditure. Relying on opinions from forums may expand your understanding of the capabilities/strengths/weaknesses of various iems, but it is no substitute for what you and your ears perceive. No idea where you are in the States but I'd take a trip somewhere just to hear what I was buying at this price range.

regards,

Giles

I believe that fellow Head-fiers like you can assist me with upgrading my listening experience while maintaining portability.

BTW, I don't really consider CIEMs for various reasons: impossible to audit, serviceability and resale-ability.

 

[Gilles De Rais]

Thank you for your time and patience. You're really great!
I'm already familiar with this thread. However it mostly consists of CIEM's. Dita Dream's got me interested though. Only few head-fiers have it. It's made by a really small boutique company. Hard to find for audition. Don't know about it's serviceability and resale-ability. I'm also a little sceptic how much you can squeeze out one DD. But one can always be surprised.


An all rounder replacement please!


I miss IE800 sub-bass and bass texture which were quite amazing. I could sometimes feel it in my chest. Psychoacoustics...
Can't complain about k3003's mids really. The treble is tricky though. Can't it stay with the same airiness and sparkle but at the same time be a little smoother. Maybe it's unachievable. This is what I'm trying to find out.
Soundstage can be sometimes too wide?! I mean Its depth and height are trailing behind its width. Sometime I have the feeling the music is disjointed or less holistic.
It's not the most comfortable IEM you know.


My main driver is 2017 15" MacBook Pro which is considered to be not bad. Sometimes I even use Sansa Clip+ (Rockbox'd). Don't laugh as it has a reasonably fair DAC. I use IEM because I value portability. Carrying around more accessories IMO is missing the whole point of being portable.


Don't know really. Depends how severe is my upgraditis at a certain time.


I want a better sound. Maybe small comfortability trade off.


Everyting really. From classic to electronic avant garde (Porter Robinson, Madeon, Röyksopp etc). Maybe some movies and video games (recently enjoyed Hellblade - a game with binaural recorded sound).
I found recently that properly ripped vinyl can sound much better than a CD. I reckon that Hi-Res is way overhyped and good audio mastering is (almost) the only thing that matters.


I want to believe that yes. Low impedance IEM don't really scale up too well AFIK. Please correct me if I'm wrong though.



I believe that fellow Head-fiers like you can assist me with upgrading my listening experience while maintaining portability.

BTW, I don't really consider CIEMs for various reasons: impossible to audit, serviceability and resale-ability.

Given your responses, I think your first step should be to improve the sound of your source. My partner also has that very model of macbook and there are two things that (to my ears i stress) improve the sound. The first is software - we've put Audirvana plus on her laptop cost $74, there are other options such as Amarra, Fidelio eyc most have trials so you see if it has an audible impact to your ears. The second would be something that matches your want for portability - have a look at the Audioquest Dragonfly Red, this is only a little larger than a usb stick- you'll need the USB C- USB A breakout cable, but i'd assume you have one anyway. See if you find someone who does returns this goes for about $200 though street price might be lower. IMO these would both enhance your listening pleasure through the k3003 at a considerably lower cost than a new iem.

If on the other hand your determined to get a new iem, you'll just have to wade your way through the opinions here and on other review sites. There are any number of contenders ranging from 10+ ba - noble katana, 64 audio, Jerry Harvey) to single dynamic driver - the campfire vega and the Xelento to all points in-between. Good luck with your search.

Regards,

Giles

 

[MozartMan1201]

Just bought my K3003i from ebay for < $300. Quite impressive little buds, sound remarkably close to my flagship K812 and totally beat out Klispch X20i and Sennheiser IE800 in my extended comparisons (I'm a classical-only audiophile). It's got that unmistakable AKG sound signature that I love -- bright, clear, detailed accurate sound with not too much bass/warmth to cloud the picture, and a soundstage that's close, wide and deep (X20i soundstage is somewhat recessed in a 'warm haze' and not as wide).

I also find K3003i more comfortable to wear than X20i, especially when lying in bed on the side.

Does anyone know where I can buy replacement 'boost filters? Mine came with only the default filter installed.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

Almost certainly knockoffs, but when I a/b'd them with the real ones they were virtually indistinguishable. I doubt AKG sells replacement filters, but I'll ask when I'm at the flagship store in February.

 

[MozartMan1201]

Almost certainly knockoffs, but when I a/b'd them with the real ones they were virtually indistinguishable. I doubt AKG sells replacement filters, but I'll ask when I'm at the flagship store in February.

Thanks. How can you tell genuine from knockoff? I think mine was so cheap because it had a damaged earbud and plug (both expertly repaired by seller). Here is the original listing...let me know what you think, https://goo.gl/vtDWMb

I've been listening to the K3003i nonstop since yesterday, so amazingly addictive. I think my K812 may be getting jealous Lol

 

[bidn]

Hi,
Here are my comments on the K3003 vs the AK T8ie mkii (the Astell and kern version of the Xelento) https://head-fi.org/threads/akg-k3003-high-end-3-way-system-headphone.554628/page-251#post-13241158. My view is that if you are looking at single dynamic drivers the pinnacle is either the Xelento/T8ie mk ii or the Dita's in their various manifestations. The IE800 was okay but I'd put it a rank below those two. For me the key was fit, here the Xelento is supreme. For what its worth I do not rate the much-lauded Campfire Vega finding it way to bass focused. The lower range Lyra is a more even handed iem but has its own problems (wind noise and the equalization vent). Please note this is with my ears, my sources and my music, YMMV.

For a brief comparo of the K3003 and the Andromeda this comment was made last year https://head-fi.org/threads/campfir...romeda-and-nova.805107/page-168#post-12758865. I found the Andromeda quite pleasant, but found that the housing was too large for ears (same with JH stuff and the 64 Audio gear). As I indicated to James in my earlier response, after the K3003 I found myself gravitating to a DD sound rather than a BA or a hybrid. The sound differences in driver technology should be considered. For what its worth, i did not find enough difference in the CA Dorado, their DD/2BA, over the K3003 to warrant a purchase. Happy to discuss.

regards,

Giles

I agree with you re. the limitations of the K3003. For me their main shortcoming is that if I try to use them to listen to metal, they become so sibiliant that it is impossible to listen to the music...

However re. the pinnacle of single dynamic in-ear, for me it is clearly and by far the incredible Final LAB II, though its price ($ 4000) and restricted availability (it was a limited edition) probably put it out of reach of most.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

Without a real one to compare to, it's not really possible. In theory, the real ones have a more linear sound, the knockoffs have a more "fun" sound. The real ones also have a "clickier" in line remote, with the knockoff being a little more flimsy.

 

[MozartMan1201]

The real ones also have a "clickier" in line remote, with the knockoff being a little more flimsy.

The inline control feels 'clicky' and not flimsy. I guess I just got lucky

I'll be putting my Klipsch X20i on ebay soon... hard to go back to it now.

 

[qqqqdd123]

An interesting finding is that K3003 has a very similar sound characteristics with HD800 which is a reference headphone. Both have accurate bass, slightly thin mid and fantastic treble. I do think it is just coincidence. Both great OEM show similar taste in sound and it is reflected on their flagship products.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

This is very true. See my K3003i review for more.

 

[pacman46]

Hi guys. I have a chance to buy the 3003 not the 3003i that are brand new and the ones not made in China. So although they have never been used they are among the first batch made. I’m curious what the sound would be compared to say the newer 3003i made in China? And is there a difference in sound between the i and non i versions? Any kinda input would be fantastic thank you!

 

[613x]

Hi guys. I have a chance to buy the 3003 not the 3003i that are brand new and the ones not made in China. So although they have never been used they are among the first batch made. I’m curious what the sound would be compared to say the newer 3003i made in China? And is there a difference in sound between the i and non i versions? Any kinda input would be fantastic thank you!

I own a K3003 (without the remote version) made in Austria and a K3003i that was made in China. They sound pretty much the same. Maybe the K3003i is a tad warmer but that can be a "burn in" effect because they were used for a longer period.
After close inspection of these two, I reckon that actually the K3003i have slightly better build quality: no gap between the cables and the housing and the left cable is a bit thicker.