[Vamp898]

I recently tested several headphones with balanced armature drivers like the Sony IER-Z1R and maybe i just had bad luck, but for me they all sound like i'm listening to music using a tin can or an hearing aid (not that i need one, hearing test attested very good hearing at -5db)

I tried several different types of music, from Orchestra to Rock to Metal to Electro and i disliked everything i heard.

Not from the quality point of view, the quality was awesome. There were awesome details and the music was extremly fine, but it was also extremely thin, the music just didn't had any body and no depth at all.

I think what added most to my dislike was the complete absent of any bass, even after putting the 63Hz band to +10db and the 310Hz band to +5db it sounded extremely thin. All balanced armature i tested have been combined with dynamic drivers but it seems that this didn't help the situation.

As an example i want to name スピードと摩擦 (speed to masatsu) from amazarashi where in the beginning you have a lot of sound going on in the lower frequencies and then suddenly, after all this electronic bass sound, an acoustic guitar goes into the song.

With my current Headphones (Teufel MOVE PRO) this part, where the acoustic guitar comes in, just sounds awesome. The electric bass part consists of sounds with very different amount of attack and after that the extremely clear guitar joins the party which is heard as an complete separated and individual instrument. Then later later the voice joins, an electric guitar, the drums, and all are separate instruments playing in their own world and it all comes together to give the song in the end.

Its like you're in the middle, inside of the music and the music plays around you

It is hard to describe but with the IER-Z1R the feeling was completely different. I did not feel like im inside the music and its around me, it just played. It was just there.

Normally i listen to music with my sound system at home and i produce music myself where i use monitors and i am used to a lot of different speaker sounds but i never heard such strange music than from balanced armature drivers.

They sound like they have higher quality, but it sounds so extremely unnatural and "electronic" or "mechanic" but somehow everyone is hyped about these and goes like crazy over Hybrid Headphones and whatever.

Of course this is just my personal taste but i don't get the hype at all. For me they sound worse than dynamic drivers. Not from a quality point of view (but high quality dynamic drivers aren't much worse either) but i would never use any of these headphones for music.

I guess they are awesome when you want to analyse the music i guess, you could use them as Monitors pretty well maybe, but for listening to music, for enjoying music, i can hardly imagine that.

After this experiment i can say for sure that, at least for me, Linear Dynamic Drivers are the best for enjoying music and i am curious if i am the only one who feels like that.

 

[Redcarmoose]

The IER-Z1R is a 3-way hybrid with only a single BA driver. The one DD is for the upper treble, BA for treble and big DD for mids and bass.

Probably what your taking issues with is it’s character. Every IEM is different with some closer to the same and many very different. Still with the above stated, many IEMs and headphones need an adjustment period. There is a good chance you’ll never like a response, but at times stuff can just sound off because it’s different from what your used to.


There is no wrong or right to this as it’s simply subjective preference. IEMs come and IEMs go. It’s difficult trying many IEMs as there is always going to be that confusing signature. After time we seem to learn what characteristic to gravitate towards. It could even be really small aspects, like slightly too much treble, or a heavy lower midrange. What ever it is our brain simply chooses to say it’s not natural. The quest should be to find an IEM you can forget about and focus simply on music. If not that an IEM that has a set of traits that have you on the edge of your seat emotionally.

 

[baskingshark]

I recently tested several headphones with balanced armature drivers like the Sony IER-Z1R and maybe i just had bad luck, but for me they all sound like i'm listening to music using a tin can or an hearing aid (not that i need one, hearing test attested very good hearing at -5db)

I tried several different types of music, from Orchestra to Rock to Metal to Electro and i disliked everything i heard.

Not from the quality point of view, the quality was awesome. There were awesome details and the music was extremly fine, but it was also extremely thin, the music just didn't had any body and no depth at all.

I think what added most to my dislike was the complete absent of any bass, even after putting the 63Hz band to +10db and the 310Hz band to +5db it sounded extremely thin. All balanced armature i tested have been combined with dynamic drivers but it seems that this didn't help the situation.

As an example i want to name スピードと摩擦 (speed to masatsu) from amazarashi where in the beginning you have a lot of sound going on in the lower frequencies and then suddenly, after all this electronic bass sound, an acoustic guitar goes into the song.

With my current Headphones (Teufel MOVE PRO) this part, where the acoustic guitar comes in, just sounds awesome. The electric bass part consists of sounds with very different amount of attack and after that the extremely clear guitar joins the party which is heard as an complete separated and individual instrument. Then later later the voice joins, an electric guitar, the drums, and all are separate instruments playing in their own world and it all comes together to give the song in the end.

Its like you're in the middle, inside of the music and the music plays around you

It is hard to describe but with the IER-Z1R the feeling was completely different. I did not feel like im inside the music and its around me, it just played. It was just there.

Normally i listen to music with my sound system at home and i produce music myself where i use monitors and i am used to a lot of different speaker sounds but i never heard such strange music than from balanced armature drivers.

They sound like they have higher quality, but it sounds so extremely unnatural and "electronic" or "mechanic" but somehow everyone is hyped about these and goes like crazy over Hybrid Headphones and whatever.

Of course this is just my personal taste but i don't get the hype at all. For me they sound worse than dynamic drivers. Not from a quality point of view (but high quality dynamic drivers aren't much worse either) but i would never use any of these headphones for music.

I guess they are awesome when you want to analyse the music i guess, you could use them as Monitors pretty well maybe, but for listening to music, for enjoying music, i can hardly imagine that.

After this experiment i can say for sure that, at least for me, Linear Dynamic Drivers are the best for enjoying music and i am curious if i am the only one who feels like that.

I am also a fan of DD bass over BA bass. In general I find that BA bass lacks subbass extension and decay/movement of air, and I'm a basshead, so I'll take DD bass most days of the week. Though there are exceptions eg my Audiosense T800 which is a 8 BA setup does have quite good subbass extension to almost 20 Hz, and it sounds almost like a DD bass due to a vented subwoofer design.

BAs have their advantages though, they generally have better resolution and details than a pure DD setup. I still use my multi BA sets for stage monitoring or critical listening to give me the best details possible. But for everyday casual listening, I'll take a DD set for musical enjoyment, better timbre and usually better coherency over the BA's better technical performance.

Perhaps for those that want a tight and accurate bass and aren't bassheads, maybe a BA bass may be an option, so YMMV. And there's hybrids that theoretically can give a good DD bass decay/subbass extension with the technical performance of the BAs at the mids/treble, but some cheaper hybrids may run into crossover or coherency issues.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I recently tested several headphones with balanced armature drivers like the Sony IER-Z1R and maybe i just had bad luck, but for me they all sound like i'm listening to music using a tin can or an hearing aid (not that i need one, hearing test attested very good hearing at -5db)

I tried several different types of music, from Orchestra to Rock to Metal to Electro and i disliked everything i heard.

Not from the quality point of view, the quality was awesome. There were awesome details and the music was extremly fine, but it was also extremely thin, the music just didn't had any body and no depth at all.

I think what added most to my dislike was the complete absent of any bass, even after putting the 63Hz band to +10db and the 310Hz band to +5db it sounded extremely thin. All balanced armature i tested have been combined with dynamic drivers but it seems that this didn't help the situation.

As an example i want to name スピードと摩擦 (speed to masatsu) from amazarashi where in the beginning you have a lot of sound going on in the lower frequencies and then suddenly, after all this electronic bass sound, an acoustic guitar goes into the song.

With my current Headphones (Teufel MOVE PRO) this part, where the acoustic guitar comes in, just sounds awesome. The electric bass part consists of sounds with very different amount of attack and after that the extremely clear guitar joins the party which is heard as an complete separated and individual instrument. Then later later the voice joins, an electric guitar, the drums, and all are separate instruments playing in their own world and it all comes together to give the song in the end.

Its like you're in the middle, inside of the music and the music plays around you

It is hard to describe but with the IER-Z1R the feeling was completely different. I did not feel like im inside the music and its around me, it just played. It was just there.

Normally i listen to music with my sound system at home and i produce music myself where i use monitors and i am used to a lot of different speaker sounds but i never heard such strange music than from balanced armature drivers.

They sound like they have higher quality, but it sounds so extremely unnatural and "electronic" or "mechanic" but somehow everyone is hyped about these and goes like crazy over Hybrid Headphones and whatever.

Of course this is just my personal taste but i don't get the hype at all. For me they sound worse than dynamic drivers. Not from a quality point of view (but high quality dynamic drivers aren't much worse either) but i would never use any of these headphones for music.

I guess they are awesome when you want to analyse the music i guess, you could use them as Monitors pretty well maybe, but for listening to music, for enjoying music, i can hardly imagine that.

After this experiment i can say for sure that, at least for me, Linear Dynamic Drivers are the best for enjoying music and i am curious if i am the only one who feels like that.

There is a whole set of BA response artifacts. Many don’t like the lack of physicality in BA bass. The reverberations emitted from a BA diminish quick and not exactly like sound normally in life. Though this can be an attribute too, as slower DD reverbs, while real sounding, can get in the way of fast pace. There is also a regular sound to BA drivers that seems to go across the board. A BA sound, which folks either love or hate. Hybrids attempt to join the best character traits of each technology to find a better response.

 

[CoryGillmore]

If you thought the Z1R didn't have any bass then you didn't have a seal. It's that simple. IEMs require a good seal to produce bass. If you have no seal, you have no bass.

 

[Vamp898]

If you thought the Z1R didn't have any bass then you didn't have a seal. It's that simple. IEMs require a good seal to produce bass. If you have no seal, you have no bass.

I dont know what exactly you mean with seal (the slikon buds for the ear?). I tested them in the Sony Center under supervision of an employee who prepared them for me

 

[CoryGillmore]

I dont know what exactly you mean with seal (the slikon buds for the ear?). I tested them in the Sony Center under supervision of an employee who prepared them for me

The Z1R is notoriously finnicky with tip selection, seal and insertion depth. It takes trial and error of many tips and insertion techniques to get it right. I used the wrong tips for 9 months on my Sony IER-M9 before I realized I was using tips that were entirely too big. You may have been under supervision but the employee helping you can't possibly know how they feel in your ears. At the very least I believe you didn't have them inserted deep enough.

 

[Vamp898]

The Z1R is notoriously finnicky with tip selection, seal and insertion depth. It takes trial and error of many tips and insertion techniques to get it right. I used the wrong tips for 9 months on my Sony IER-M9 before I realized I was using tips that were entirely too big. You may have been under supervision but the employee helping you can't possibly know how they feel in your ears. At the very least I believe you didn't have them inserted deep enough.

That could be the case, im not 100% confident about that because i am using in-ear since _lots_ of years and because i am very picky about the low frequencies, i care a lot about having in-ears properly sealed and if i do one thing correct, its putting them into the ear as far as possible to make them stuck tight.

But still, it could be possible because testing headphones out of house is always different than owning them and fine tuning them to the very last bits.

Maybe i'll give them another chance, but those have not been the only ones i tested and i experienced these issues with the strange sound with almost all of them

 

[Vamp898]

The IER-Z1R is a 3-way hybrid with only a single BA driver. The one DD is for the upper treble, BA for treble and big DD for mids and bass.

Probably what your taking issues with is it’s character. Every IEM is different with some closer to the same and many very different. Still with the above stated, many IEMs and headphones need an adjustment period. There is a good chance you’ll never like a response, but at times stuff can just sound off because it’s different from what your used to.


There is no wrong or right to this as it’s simply subjective preference. IEMs come and IEMs go. It’s difficult trying many IEMs as there is always going to be that confusing signature. After time we seem to learn what characteristic to gravitate towards. It could even be really small aspects, like slightly too much treble, or a heavy lower midrange. What ever it is our brain simply chooses to say it’s not natural. The quest should be to find an IEM you can forget about and focus simply on music. If not that an IEM that has a set of traits that have you on the edge of your seat emotionally.

Well i play a lot of instruments. Beside several guitars i play flutes and tin-whistles, Double Bass, Cello and so on and i record them too.

So i at least think i know pretty much how instruments are supposed to sound and in my experience, they just don't sound the way they are supposed to sound with BAs.

I also always use Tatsuya Maruyama to test several aspects of Headphones, one of the songs i always use for testing is Frustration2 from Collage from Tatsuya Maruyama (this Song is just perfect for testing headphones) and when i listen to that Song with my MOVE PRO, the guitar sounds just perfect. It sounds exactly the way it is supposed to sound. It sounds like Tatsuya visited me in my brain and is playing a private concert for me.

With different Headphones of course the sound varies and there are lots of cheap/bad DD out in the market, but this effect just doesn't happen with any of the hybrid headphones i tested so far. I put on the headphones and Tatsuya says "No, no visit from me, just the song, nothing else, there you go"

 

[SilverEars]

I agree. I'm not into BA either (although I used to be), Only BA iem that got the timbre closest to a good timbre I tried was VE Erlkonig, but it's like $5k!

I disliked Z1R highs. The BA aint helpin with the timbre. There's some oddities up with at the upper-mids and the timbre doesn't seem natural. Not worth it for me. I'll just stick with my Kanas Pro single DD, which is a much much better value.

I find that current crop of DD to be much better value than the BA count wars that's been going on. DD has a wide bandwidth, moves more air, generally sound more natural with better timbre.

 

[Redcarmoose]

That could be the case, im not 100% confident about that because i am using in-ear since _lots_ of years and because i am very picky about the low frequencies, i care a lot about having in-ears properly sealed and if i do one thing correct, its putting them into the ear as far as possible to make them stuck tight.

But still, it could be possible because testing headphones out of house is always different than owning them and fine tuning them to the very last bits.

Maybe i'll give them another chance, but those have not been the only ones i tested and i experienced these issues with the strange sound with almost all of them

Well i play a lot of instruments. Beside several guitars i play flutes and tin-whistles, Double Bass, Cello and so on and i record them too.

So i at least think i know pretty much how instruments are supposed to sound and in my experience, they just don't sound the way they are supposed to sound with BAs.

I also always use Tatsuya Maruyama to test several aspects of Headphones, one of the songs i always use for testing is Frustration2 from Collage from Tatsuya Maruyama (this Song is just perfect for testing headphones) and when i listen to that Song with my MOVE PRO, the guitar sounds just perfect. It sounds exactly the way it is supposed to sound. It sounds like Tatsuya visited me in my brain and is playing a private concert for me.

With different Headphones of course the sound varies and there are lots of cheap/bad DD out in the market, but this effect just doesn't happen with any of the hybrid headphones i tested so far. I put on the headphones and Tatsuya says "No, no visit from me, just the song, nothing else, there you go"

I’m actually agreeable with your findings. I’m sure your able to tell the timbre and tone of real instruments. Not questioning a thing other than saying keep an open mind.

At a certain point in this hobby we start to get enough confidence to shut doors on some technology. That’s natural as there is a lot to learn and a lot to sort out. Part of our personal research is finding out what is good and what is bad, as there are other mountains to climb; like amps and source equipment. Because we are into music, thus listening a lot, we totally notice when stuff sounds wrong.

Remember the IER-Z1R has a huge following. It’s doesn’t mean your right or wrong, it doesn’t mean the IER-Z1R owners are right or wrong.


It’s simply subjective taste. The Noble Encore is a 10BA IEM that I love. Though maybe not because it’s 100% correct. There is no perfect IEM. There are some that are closer to perfect, though there are others with technical “artistic” departures from normal. This weird sounding “new” slant on an idea of what an IEM could sound like, is not going to make everyone happy. None the less, your going to find fans.

Some folks are open to liking a number of different attempts at IEM sound. It doesn’t make them any better than anyone else. Though they basically think nothing is perfect and enjoy what positive attributes an IEM may have, for better or worse.

The final end-game to truly knowing a product, BA or DD, is to get it the correct signal. Meaning rarely if never is it an additive of one thing, these sound signatures are complete sound which comes from a specific grouping. The IER-Z1R can sound just OK from a phone but time spent with trial and error can find the IER-Z1R with a great DAP with the correct firmware which can dial in the sound to something very different than a phone.

There are not right people or wrong people for liking certain gear. Though there are always going to be folks who judge IEMs by using the wrong source.

 

[Vamp898]

I’m actually agreeable with your findings. I’m sure your able to tell the timbre and tone of real instruments. Not questioning a thing other than saying keep an open mind.

At a certain point in this hobby we start to get enough confidence to shut doors on some technology. That’s natural as there is a lot to learn and a lot to sort out. Part of our personal research is finding out what is good and what is bad, as there are other mountains to climb; like amps and source equipment. Because we are into music, thus listening a lot, we totally notice when stuff sounds wrong.

Remember the IER-Z1R has a huge following. It’s doesn’t mean your right or wrong, it doesn’t mean the IER-Z1R owners are right or wrong.


It’s simply subjective taste. The Noble Encore is a 10BA IEM that I love. Though maybe not because it’s 100% correct. There is no perfect IEM. There are some that are closer to perfect, though there are others with technical “artistic” departures from normal. This weird sounding “new” slant on an idea of what an IEM could sound like, is not going to make everyone happy. None the less, your going to find fans.

Some folks are open to liking a number of different attempts at IEM sound. It doesn’t make them any better than anyone else. Though they basically think nothing is perfect and enjoy what positive attributes an IEM may have, for better or worse.

The final end-game to truly knowing a product, BA or DD, is to get it the correct signal. Meaning rarely if never is it an additive of one thing, these sound signatures are complete sound which comes from a specific grouping. The IER-Z1R can sound just OK from a phone but time spent with trial and error can find the IER-Z1R with a great DAP with the correct firmware which can dial in the sound to something very different than a phone.

There are not right people or wrong people for liking certain gear. Though there are always going to be folks who judge IEMs by using the wrong source.

Of course i don't use my phone for music listening^^ (altough im curious about the new Headphone Jack of the Xperia 1 II which Sony advertises as best headphone jack in a phone ever (24bit/96KHz capable DAC and 80db SNR (which is not _that_ good overall, but pretty good for a phone)). I own one of these fancy Sony Walkman (which is the reason why i got interested in the IER-Z1R in the first place).

But i totally understand what you mean and i don't think that people who like IEM are wrong. I myself have several self-made pre-settings in my EQ which i use whenever i feel like. Sometimes i want a sound that is unnatural clear, sometimes i want more bass, whatever i feel like.

So i have full understanding if someone likes an specific sound and don't judge them, all i write is purely subjective.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Probably the most frustrating part of this hobby is you really don’t know what you like till you own it. At times we luck out as to buying gear which actually starts to even appear better after time. But then there was always that wrong purchase. Hindsight is 20/20 in this hobby.


My preferences have been on a slow progression towards more flat. Which is that our preferences do change with time or current listing genre of choice. It’s not a stretch to think many buy and sell gear to learn their preferred sound signature, as it’s difficult to really demo stuff in a store or at a Head-Fi meet.

But it’s also very wild how different everyone hears. Some people notice stuff that other people don’t hear. That same concept could in-fact be with someone hearing issues with BA drivers that they find intolerable. It could be that others hear those same things but let them slide. Like for me mid forwardness is the ultimate thing so can’t stand. Where I’ve meet people who only wanted to hear relatively flat IEMs or mid-forward IEMs. After so many years with V signatures the mids were annoying.

But no one knows how people get their preferences in sound. Most folks can describe their history and what influenced their taste in music. But you will always have folks keeping the stereo tone knobs flat, or someone turning them to 10.

 

[CoryGillmore]

That could be the case, im not 100% confident about that because i am using in-ear since _lots_ of years and because i am very picky about the low frequencies, i care a lot about having in-ears properly sealed and if i do one thing correct, its putting them into the ear as far as possible to make them stuck tight.

But still, it could be possible because testing headphones out of house is always different than owning them and fine tuning them to the very last bits.

Maybe i'll give them another chance, but those have not been the only ones i tested and i experienced these issues with the strange sound with almost all of them

Give the IER-M9 a trial too. I’ve owned mine for a little over a year and I love them. They have fantastic bass. Nothing like the MDR-Z7 or anything but it punches up there with my two planars, Aiva and LCD2C.

 

[mvvRAZ]

I agree with you on some level - BA timbre/texture and decay just can't compete with a DD - I can deal with BA bass, but BA mids always miss the mark for me. I do enjoy them here and there but all in all they never come close to a well implemented DD

If you're specifically after clarity and resolution BAs can get the job done though, and some companies have managed to pretty much replicate the DD sound with BAs (the VE8 for example and it's top notch texture)