[mdboyce]

I want to get some friendly advice on where to go.

I currently have a pair of Audio Technica ATH-A700 and am waiting on a pair of Sennheiser HD 6xx that I should get around Christmas. I also currently have an Objective 2 and ODAC that I'm primarily going to use as a portable combo for travel and in the office. I listen to a little of everything, but mostly Rock, Rap, and Electronic. My sources are generally mp3 (usually 256 or 320), some FLAC, and streaming (I'm trying Amazon Music Unlimited not but will probably move to Spotify since they have a Roku channel).

In the future, I'm planning on expanding my headphone collection to include a variety of cans, so versatility is key. I'm also going to have two primary setups. The one I'm shopping for currently will be used in my home office. Eventually, I'll get a higher end set that will be used in a dedicated listening area with a comfy lounging chair. I would also like to try out either a balanced or tube amp.

My budget for this $500-700. I have two current ideas but am open to other suggestions as well.
1) Schiit Jotunheim with the balanced DAC. Then spend the rest of my budget on a balanced cable for the 6xx (I was thinking Charleston Cable Company). This seems like a good long term investment, as the amp seems like it can drive a wide range of headphones.
2) Massdrop x Alex Cavalli Tube Hybrid Amp. I would have to be even more patient, but it seems like this could be a great bang for the buck and a good intro to tubes. I could spend the rest on a separate dedicated DAC for that or a better set of closed back headphones for office use (any suggestions for either?).

I'm torn and looking for any thoughts or advice anyone has.

 

[cossix]

Jotunheim all the way! Its amazing and has endless I/O for speakers and whatnot. It will add a bit of brightness to the sound but it's not harsh at all. You can also find CorpseCable on eBay, they sell stock cables just re-terminated in XLR. It's like 80 bucks for an amazing balanced cable that doesn't change the sound of the headphones compared to the single ended stock cable.

As for your future plans, I would highly suggest building a lossless music library, especially if you're dropping 500 on an amp/dac and more on headphones. Lossless will help bring out the best in your headphones. You can do something like HDtracks or torrents and find tons of music easily.

Good luck!

 

[mdboyce]

Thanks for the reply cossix. Honestly, I had been towards the Jotunheim as it was. I have seen several times that balanced makes a big difference when it is carried from the DAC all the way through to the headphones. I'm thinking that when I eventually get the second setup I can get a fully balanced amp that is a tube or tube hybrid as it seems like most of those are out of my current budget. That way I'll get the benefits of balanced with the experience of tubes. I'm interested in Schiit for that as well, since their higher end amps can be switched. Thanks for the tip on CorpseCable, I hadn't heard of that before.

Those are some good points about my music library, I may be able to jump start my collection with savings from the cable as well. I'm more than familiar enough with torrents, so that won't be a problem to build some quickly. I think I've just never had equipment that can take advantage of FLAC or other high-quality sources so I never bothered.

On a related note, any opinions on high-quality streaming services? I'm not going with Deezer since I have no interest in Sonos, similarly Tidal skipped Roku (I use them for streaming on my home theaters), but I hear that Spotify is testing a high res (I think CD quality) streaming option. If they go that route, I might use that as a cheap way to jump start and broaden my collection when I'm stationary and be able to use it on my Rokus as well.

 

[buke9]

I have a balanced dac the Yggdrasil and a balanced amp the Cavalli Liquid Carbon and I can not tell the difference between the two. Some might but I can not. The balanced output most think is better because on most amps it doubles the power but volume matching on the Carbon I'm still at a lose to tell too much difference. Balanced cables were made for long cable runs on microphones to reduce interference. It has creep its way into audiophile space as a panacea for more better imo.

 

[16610]

Hi,

I am in the same boat like you. Though I don't have much patience to wait for the Massdrop x Alex Cavalli Tube Hybrid Amp. Therefor I think the Jotunheim is a good alternative. But, I was thinking:

Can I also just buy the Valhalla 2 amp (http://www.schiit.com/products/valhalla-2) and hook it up to, let's say, a Dragon Fly?

Reason for this is: an AMP is a pretty timeless piece with no digital components. While a DAC is a subjected to the quick movements of chipset industry. The older and the newer Dragon Fly is an example of that.

Also, the Dragon Fly, you can hook it up to your iPhone and use it on the go with some high end IEMs.

What about this? Am I talking BS?

 

[buke9]

Yes you can do that.

 

[16610]

I don't want to take over OP topic. But apparently it's also in the philosophy of Schitt Audio:

"DAC/Amps: They’re Sooooo Last Decade
Don’t get stuck with dumpster fodder when DAC technology changes—choose Jotunheim and be ready for today…and the future. Configure Jotunheim to your needs: use it as just an amp, or add an internal DAC or phono preamp. In the future, you’ll be able to easily upgrade to a different module—maybe even something beyond a DAC or phono preamp."

However, it does sound a bit weird to me, to connect a dragon fly to an AMP. It will look weird too. And the jackplug to tulip cable.. hmm.

 

[buke9]

The only problem I have with the Jot as they do not have a multibit option.

 

[mdboyce]

I agree that the Jot seems to follow the same theory about DAC replaceability (assuming they actually develop new DAC boards for it). The thing I like most about it is that, at the price point, it is balanced from the DAC on. They have 2 DAC chips feeding into the amp section, so it seems like a more complete circle than having the amp split the output from something like the Dragonfly. I highly doubt it makes much of a difference, but I like the idea. I do wish they had a multi-bit option for that as well, but maybe that will come eventually as an upgrade?

This amp will sit on ia corner of my desk, so having one self-contained system with one plug, one USB cable, and one headphone cable is preferable. Eventually, I want to get something like the Yggdrasil or Gungnir MB for my dedicated listening area.

The reason I was leaning away from Valhalla was the same reason I was leaning away from the CTH, neither is balanced. I think buke9 is very possibly right, and I may never be able to tell the difference between a quality SE and a quality balanced. However, I would rather spend a little (ok maybe a lot) more and get a balanced tube or tube hybrid and not worry about it, even if it's only an issue that I'm imagining anyway. It seems like the Jot provides a very solid and hopefully future proof contained system.

 

[16610]

The reason I was leaning away from Valhalla was the same reason I was leaning away from the CTH, neither is balanced.

Fair enough.... I did some research and this whole balanced thing does make sense.


I went on Aliexpress and I'm just blown away by the amount of amps and dacs. It's pretty sick.

This one is quite expensive, but there's many cheaper ones out there: Click


What is the general consensus here on the forum about Chinese amps?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how...sion-of-any-super-expensive-dac.709328/page-3

 

[mdboyce]

I can't say for sure about Chinese amps/DACs or the thoughts of long time forum members, but I do have some thoughts about buying Chinese stuff like that.

A lot of people have negative associations with anything made in China. Sometimes it's for good reason, I'm sure we've all seen cheap Chinese junk. However, the same can be said for anything cheaply made in any country. Manufacturing in China can be on the same level of quality and precision as anywhere else, it just depends on the design and tolerances of the product and the quality of the factory. I'm also quite sure that China has some great audio engineers (I know they have a lot of great engineers in other tech areas).

You can also find "knock-offs" of products for far less than what you would pay for the name brand on sites like Aliexpress while sometimes meeting or exceeding what you would expect from the big name. I believe that part of this is because there really are no repercussions for reverse engineering and copying (violating US or International patents) for products not officially sold abroad. The danger here is that you may be rolling the dice to some degree, and good luck if it breaks.

I think it comes down to your risk tolerance and if you want something from a brand you like and trust. I would definitely consider something from an off-brand or site like that if I was sure of what I was getting. But, for me at least, I usually try to find a brand for products that I like and can stick with. I think there is a lot to be said for a company that doesn't take itself too seriously, has a great reputation with the enthusiast community, and is run by people who generally have a passion for what they do. It seems to me like Schiit is one of those companies, as is Cavalli Audio and Massdrop.

 

[16610]

I can't say for sure about Chinese amps/DACs or the thoughts of long time forum members, but I do have some thoughts about buying Chinese stuff like that.

A lot of people have negative associations with anything made in China. Sometimes it's for good reason, I'm sure we've all seen cheap Chinese junk. However, the same can be said for anything cheaply made in any country. Manufacturing in China can be on the same level of quality and precision as anywhere else, it just depends on the design and tolerances of the product and the quality of the factory. I'm also quite sure that China has some great audio engineers (I know they have a lot of great engineers in other tech areas).

You can also find "knock-offs" of products for far less than what you would pay for the name brand on sites like Aliexpress while sometimes meeting or exceeding what you would expect from the big name. I believe that part of this is because there really are no repercussions for reverse engineering and copying (violating US or International patents) for products not officially sold abroad. The danger here is that you may be rolling the dice to some degree, and good luck if it breaks.

I think it comes down to your risk tolerance and if you want something from a brand you like and trust. I would definitely consider something from an off-brand or site like that if I was sure of what I was getting. But, for me at least, I usually try to find a brand for products that I like and can stick with. I think there is a lot to be said for a company that doesn't take itself too seriously, has a great reputation with the enthusiast community, and is run by people who generally have a passion for what they do. It seems to me like Schiit is one of those companies, as is Cavalli Audio and Massdrop.

Fair enough. Though I don't live in the USA so buying at Schitt will bring shipping costs along. Yet, everything from China gets delivered for free Just curious.

Back on topic. As for dac/amp solutions. Since we both are going to connect the unit to our laptop/PC via USB, and we both want to have a balanced setup... I think it'd be better to go with a dac/amp solution rather than having 2 separate units that needs to get hooked up to each other. Meaning -since you want to feed a clean signal to the amp- the cable from the dac needs to be from a certain quality as well.. bringing additional costs..

Since Schiit gives us the ability to upgrade the dac in the future, the Jotenheim seems be a solid 1 solution unit imho.

Can someone confirm the following thought:

What if I'd have a dac and a balanced amp separately. Everything from the cans to the amp is balanced. But the dac feeds the amp through a simple jackplug/RCA cable, does this make the whole thing unbalanced?

 

[mdboyce]

My thought would be yes and no. To be "fully balanced" it would need to be balanced from the input, through the amp, through the output, and to the headphones. However, as long as the amp has a good method for splitting the analog signal to the separate amp paths I imagine the difference would be negligible and you could still get the benefits of push-pull as long as the amp, outputs, and headphones are balanced. There are also standalone DACs that have balanced outputs, although I'm sure some of those are just for convenience and may not be two discreet but matched analog signals. That being said, as long as the input comes in as balanced (i.e. 2x 3-pin XLR's into the amp) I doubt it makes any difference at all if the DAC has two chips for separate signals or simply provides a balanced output version of the single signal that has just been converted to analog. My thought is that it should be far easier to split a digital signal while maintaining full signal integrity than it is for an analog signal. I know a bit about DSP and transmission error with digital signals from school, but not nearly as much about analog signals so take this with a grain of salt as a series of somewhat educated guesses.

Here is a site I found that has pretty good explanations of some of it: https://robrobinette.com/Push-Pull_Vs_Single-Ended_and_Balanced_Vs_Unbalanced.htm

 

[GearMe]

FWIW...the HD650s sound very nice out of the Valhalla. If you get past the balanced vs SE thing, another option would be Mimby & Valhalla 2 for $600 (or a Mimby/Vali 2...for a total of $420).

I say this and yet I just bought some balanced cables and am looking at balanced Dacs & Amps as well.

So far, I'm thinking I won't do the Jot because of the comments about it being a tad 'bright' (or neutral depending on who you believe).

 

[16610]

damn. This whole balanced desire makes it really expensive.

Maybe I'll skip over balanced and just go with a Vali 2...

And by-the-way: this bad ass is not even balanced itself

Unbalanced: These crazy headphones might blow your mind