[Articnoise]

I am not entirely sure which version of the driver it had, I assume it was the 2016, the drivers were changed out in Jan of 2017 and when it is done at a dealer you can't get a graph because they don't have the equipment to test it once they are in the headphone.
I can tell you though that it sounded nothing like my LCD4 or previous LCD3.It had that presence region filled in, the closest thing it sounded like was the 009 then the Utopia, Bright-ish and very detailed basically the opposite of my LCD3 before.
It had a spike at 11-12kHz that if I eq'd I could listen to it but it still sounded sought of artificial. I tried to like it but couldn't. It was technically very good, more neutral, it had that fast electrostatic type sound, but just not as enjoyable.
Going to the LCD4 is like I have gone back to a much upgraded 2014 LCD3, it is as enjoyable as ever.

I also heard the original 100Ohm LCD4 and that one was great and I was worried that the 200Ohm would not be as good.
I had listened to the 200Ohm briefly at times and it wasn't as good as the 100Ohm to me from memory. But my latest listen before buying I think it was much better. The 200Ohm has this big sound stage I have never ever heard before.
It could be that is dac/amp related because the Mojo totally kills it. It was very huge with the King and a AK240 dap and the LCD4 was the only one that had it. The HE1Kv4, HD800S or Utopia didn't on the same setup didn't.
I am trying to work out where it comes from because running the Mojo through the Conductor doesn't bring it back. It is slightly better going from USB to optical with the Mojo through the Conductor than the Mojo alone but the Conductor on its own is way better.
Listening on the Mojo alone reminds me even more of my 2014 LCD3, I think the Mojo is too warm compared to the Conductor. Now that I have the Conductor/LCD4 sound in my head I might have to give the King another trial and some other top amps.

If your LCD-3 had the sound signature of the Utopia it must be something wrong with it, because they normally sound very dissimilar.

The LCD-3 have a small boost in the high frequency that can sound a bit hot before burned in for 150-200 hours. It was the same with the LCD 3 from 2014. LCD-4 is better than all LCD-3 revisions IMO.

 

[David B]

Roon has Audeze presets?? I did not know that. That is good info. Not that it tips the scales in favor of the LCD-4's since most purist hate EQ's. I for one don't have a problem with them at all. I just want the best sound possible. These last few posts are filled with excellent comparisons between the LCD-4's and Utopia's and it's really helping me get a good gauge on their sound signatures. It's also helping me inch closer to picking one of the TOTL headphones for my own musical enjoyment. Thanks everyone for chiming in and keep the posts coming. They are very good reads!

Check out the Audeze post on the presets they did with Roon. My review is in the thread and I hope it helps you.

 

[mlxx]

If your LCD-3 had the sound signature of the Utopia it must be something wrong with it, because they normally sound very dissimilar.

The LCD-3 have a small boost in the high frequency that can sound a bit hot before burned in for 150-200 hours. It was the same with the LCD 3 from 2014. LCD-4 is better than all LCD-3 revisions IMO.

There could have been something wrong with it but personally I don't think there was, it just sounded quite different more along the lines of how the utopia sounds (actually more like the 009) rather than my previous LCD3. I gave it about 250hrs burnin in the first few weeks just to be sure but I didn't notice any real changes.
It seemed to me that the diaphragms were over damped like they were tensioned too much, it made the bass too fast without any richness and the treble was like Tyll described on his LCD4 review were it made cymbals sound funny but voices were actually better because they were not as thick.
I did a frequency sweep and detected a dip at about 1.5 to 2.0kHz and a spike at about 11 to 12kHz, I mainly only listened with those areas eq'd and it improved it quite a lot and it brought the bass out a bit more, had I never heard the previous LCD3 though I would probably still have it now.
It was pretty obvious to me that the new version was a step up from my previous one in terms of technicalities, it is just that I didn't like it as much as the previous version, the tonality was too different.

With the LCD4 everything is improved, the bass, mids, treble everything is a few steps up and the tonality is more to my liking. The voices are the most real I have ever heard.
But what I think is the key to the LCD4 is its 3D sound and imaging. With my LCD3's the sound was flat (2D) with not much sound in front of me, it seemed like I was sitting in the 1st or 2nd row all the time.
I have been trying to work out what row I am sitting in when listening to the LCD4 but I can't. The feeling I get now is that the music is all around me and that I am part of the performance.
Depending on what I am listening to, from one song to the next, the vocals will appear to come from somewhere different so I can't say this is where I am sitting. It all sounds so real and natural, I do get a sense like I am listening to speakers.
The imaging is also excellent, sometimes when there are several singers and some are offset I want to turn in that direction to look at them when they start singing.

The other thing I noticed is that gasket they put around the ear pads helps a lot I think. When I first got my LCD3 in the first few weeks I felt a large vacuum effect that took me a month or so to get used to and to not be aware of.
My ears don't feel any pressure or vacuum effect now, they feel more comfortable that they can more easily absorb all the sound coming at them.
Sometimes when I am listening I can hear all the details so clearly and pinpoint where things are coming from all around me it just amazes me the improvement they managed to make from the LCD3 which I loved.
Then I think if there is another this kind of jump to the LCD5 it will be pretty mind blowing but I hate to think how much it will cost.

I also like the new black and white cable, no tangles, no microphonics, doesn't stick on clothes, very easy to handle, nice looking, a very well done cable.

 

[seamon]

LCD 5 : $8k easy. Gotta beat shangriLa mini and Abyss Phi somehow

 

[up late]

There could have been something wrong with it but personally I don't think there was, it just sounded quite different more along the lines of how the utopia sounds (actually more like the 009) rather than my previous LCD3. I gave it about 250hrs burnin in the first few weeks just to be sure but I didn't notice any real changes.
It seemed to me that the diaphragms were over damped like they were tensioned too much, it made the bass too fast without any richness and the treble was like Tyll described on his LCD4 review were it made cymbals sound funny but voices were actually better because they were not as thick.
I did a frequency sweep and detected a dip at about 1.5 to 2.0kHz and a spike at about 11 to 12kHz, I mainly only listened with those areas eq'd and it improved it quite a lot and it brought the bass out a bit more, had I never heard the previous LCD3 though I would probably still have it now.
It was pretty obvious to me that the new version was a step up from my previous one in terms of technicalities, it is just that I didn't like it as much as the previous version, the tonality was too different.

With the LCD4 everything is improved, the bass, mids, treble everything is a few steps up and the tonality is more to my liking. The voices are the most real I have ever heard.
But what I think is the key to the LCD4 is its 3D sound and imaging. With my LCD3's the sound was flat (2D) with not much sound in front of me, it seemed like I was sitting in the 1st or 2nd row all the time.
I have been trying to work out what row I am sitting in when listening to the LCD4 but I can't. The feeling I get now is that the music is all around me and that I am part of the performance.
Depending on what I am listening to, from one song to the next, the vocals will appear to come from somewhere different so I can't say this is where I am sitting. It all sounds so real and natural, I do get a sense like I am listening to speakers.
The imaging is also excellent, sometimes when there are several singers and some are offset I want to turn in that direction to look at them when they start singing.

The other thing I noticed is that gasket they put around the ear pads helps a lot I think. When I first got my LCD3 in the first few weeks I felt a large vacuum effect that took me a month or so to get used to and to not be aware of.
My ears don't feel any pressure or vacuum effect now, they feel more comfortable that they can more easily absorb all the sound coming at them.
Sometimes when I am listening I can hear all the details so clearly and pinpoint where things are coming from all around me it just amazes me the improvement they managed to make from the LCD3 which I loved.
Then I think if there is another this kind of jump to the LCD5 it will be pretty mind blowing but I hate to think how much it will cost.

I also like the new black and white cable, no tangles, no microphonics, doesn't stick on clothes, very easy to handle, nice looking, a very well done cable.

interesting, the lcd3 i heard didn't sound the least bit similar to the utopia or the sr009

 

[jrfmd]

I assume that's the Ayre Codex? Have you ever heard it? I was thinking of buying it as well.

I own two codexes. it was my a/d converter and amp of choice before I bought the Dave, I dont move the dave around the house so I use the codex when I am listening in another room--its very small and has a very good sound -- But I prefer the dave at this time. I once spent an hour or so at a dealer trying to compare the codex to the dave (dave in mono codex in balanced) and the codex won at that time. Maybe the dealers dave was defective maybe I just love balanced

Jeff

 

[seamon]

BTW how does the LCD 4 compare to the He-6 if someone has heard both

 

[ken6217]

I own two codexes. it was my a/d converter and amp of choice before I bought the Dave, I dont move the dave around the house so I use the codex when I am listening in another room--its very small and has a very good sound -- But I prefer the dave at this time. I once spent an hour or so at a dealer trying to compare the codex to the dave (dave in mono codex in balanced) and the codex won at that time. Maybe the dealers dave was defective maybe I just love balanced

Jeff

Thanks,
Ken

 

[David B]

It seemed to me that the diaphragms were over damped like they were tensioned too much, it made the bass too fast without any richness and the treble was like Tyll described on his LCD4 review were it made cymbals sound funny but voices were actually better because they were not as thick. I did a frequency sweep and detected a dip at about 1.5 to 2.0kHz and a spike at about 11 to 12kHz, I mainly only listened with those areas eq'd and it improved it quite a lot and it brought the bass out a bit more....

What Tyll has to say about the Utopia or LCD-4, and what Inner Fidelity says about any high end headphone, counts for very little with me after all the egg they got on their faces over his review. After he posted it, he was forced to retract it after it was established that both Inner Fidelity, and he, were reviewing broken equipment. He had to retract his decision not to put the LCD-4 up on his so-called "wall of fame" as a result of his screw-up. So his purely subjective and sloppy opinions don't matter much to me any more. There, I finally got that off my chest.

 

[up late]

what equipment was broken?

 

[jrfmd]

what equipment was broken?

Im not sure why I considered the codex better than the dave on that day--it certainly isn't true in my house with the same codex and a different dave
so it seems to me that the logical possibilities are
the dealers dave wasnt working right (?)
or
since the dealer had no way to connect the dave to my earphones using a balanced connector I had to listen to the utopia unbalanced but I listened to the codex using balanced outputs
I now know that I have a preference for balanced output when using the utopia headphones and this could account for my decision not to buy the dave at that time

I'm sure that there could be other variables but I cant think of any at the moment

JRF

 

[up late]

my question related to david b's post regarding tyll hertsen's reviews of the utopia and lcd4

 

[David B]

UP LATE: There were really two sets of (now infamous) Inner Fidelity reviews. First there was Tyll's in which he preferred the Utopia and declined to put the LCD-4 on his so-called 'wall of fame'. Then there was a subsequent "A vs B" test involving six other Inner Fidelity reviewers - and 5 of the six had a clear preference for the LCD-4. Afterward, when inquiries were made by the manufacturers and others, it turned out that at least one of the LCD-4s and Focals (including the Focal used by Tyll!) were defective. After replacements were furnished, Tyll issued a follow-up and retracted his decision not to place the LCD-4 on to his 'Wall of Fame'.

If you Google the issue, you can read the about the whole tawdry affair. I drew my appropriate conclusions and I think others should too. Full disclosure: I like both the Focal and the LCD-4 (as well as the Stax and the Abyss) and would be happy with any of them. But given the amp I purchased (Headamp GSX Mk2 running balanced mode) and my own subjective preferences, I chose the LCD-4.

 

[seamon]

The whole innerfidelity affair just goes on to prove that at this price range it's all about personal preference imo.

 

[David B]

Precisely, Seamon! When I read testosterone-laced posts that one model "destroys" the other or that one model is better than the other because 'so-and-so says so', I just laugh.