[Happytalk]

Ok. So it pays to be cheap. I bought some generic pads on eBay for less than $6. I was looking for thin,firm, over ear ones to be comprable to the stock pads. To my ears, the stock pads produce the best sound. YMMV but after messing with 4 sets of pads I had on hand, I believe I found the ones that work. No need for adaptors, and they don’t change the look of the sines much like HM5 pads do, etc. I think they sound the same as stock pads because they keep the driver close to the ear they are a little firm like the stock pads. Not plush, so not for everyone. Comfortable enough for me. They sit over my medium sized ears fine.

Item number. 142632699573 On eBay.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-Replace...-Technica-ATH-M50X-Professional-/142632699573

 

[antdroid]

So these are only 22 Ohm impedance headphones: do they still benefit from an amp when used with android phones that have a reasonable DAC? (considering one can use a pretty good equalizer in an app like PowerAMP) And if so, which amps do you like with these headphones? Something like Fiio Mont Blanc would be an overkill?

22 Ohms perhaps, but there's no published sensitivity, and I think these are not sensitive... I feel like these need power despite being a portable headphone. I dont find my phone, my phone usb-c adapter or even my Cayin N3 sufficient power for them. I pair it with a Fiio Q1 (original version) if I need to be portable or have it plugged into one of my headphone amps at work or at home. They actually do not get loud enough on some devices.

 

[TidalWave]

Published stats: https://www.audeze.com/products/sine-series/sine-ear-headphone
'Maximum SPL >120dB
Impedance: 20 ohms"

Test: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/audeze-sine.php
. . . . .

Cayin C5 vs Fiio A5? I think A5 is probably the better one because I've read it does not alter the sound, only adds amplification, and I keep seeing the "smoothing" comments in reference to C5. But in this thread, someone really loves C5 with Sine. I wonder if "smoothing" improves something in the Sine sound specifically? Or should I get the Fiio A5?

 

[Detectit]

It definitely benefits from an amp.
The lower frequencys are beter represented.

On the IFI Micro SE it's definitely good...
Even on the O2 you hear it's less better.

 

[TidalWave]

I can definitely hear that my Sine with Cipher cable + iPad results in much better sound than Sine with normal audio cable on my Android phone (via PowerAMP app). Without Cipher cable, I dare say Sine sounds kind of hollow. However what's interesting to me, after listening to both headphones (one via iPad and the other via android phone) for a few hours, playing the same music on both, is that the Sine didn't blow away my V-Moda M-100 for me, though I originally expected it would. The latter is easily driven by my phone alone, and after a lot of tweaking in PowerAMP, I have a lot of pretty good presets, where I'm fairly happy with the sound. I've tried playing with EQ settings in the Audeze app on my iPad, but it's a more limited program compared to PowerAMP, and I prefer PowerAMP results. Tried classical music, more modern rock/electronic (and music like Beach House). Clearly I can only compare the two headphones properly after I get a good amplifier and listen to both on my phone with the same amp. As of now, I concur that Sine sounds very good, but also fatiguing--M-100 has a more relaxed sound in the mids while still being nicely detailed. Without a dedicated amp on an android device, Sine sounds worse than M-100. I actually have a healthy amount of respect now for my V-Modas. Now to get a proper amp... Not sure if it should be Cayin C5 or Fiio A5.

 

[antdroid]

Published stats: https://www.audeze.com/products/sine-series/sine-ear-headphone
'Maximum SPL >120dB
Impedance: 20 ohms"

Test: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/audeze-sine.php

Yea Max SPL doesnt mean much - that's just how much power it takes to distort the sound, not the amount of power needed to generate loudness.

The second reference I've seen before. I think that's probably closer to accurate -- i.e. you need 73mW to get 94dB. That's not a whole lot but many ultra portable dac/amps can't reach that power.

I can definitely hear that my Sine with Cipher cable + iPad results in much better sound than Sine with normal audio cable on my Android phone (via PowerAMP app). Without Cipher cable, I dare say Sine sounds kind of hollow. However what's interesting to me, after listening to both headphones (one via iPad and the other via android phone) for a few hours, playing the same music on both, is that the Sine didn't blow away my V-Moda M-100 for me, though I originally expected it would. The latter is easily driven by my phone alone, and after a lot of tweaking in PowerAMP, I have a lot of pretty good presets, where I'm fairly happy with the sound. I've tried playing with EQ settings in the Audeze app on my iPad, but it's a more limited program compared to PowerAMP, and I prefer PowerAMP results. Tried classical music, more modern rock/electronic (and music like Beach House). Clearly I can only compare the two headphones properly after I get a good amplifier and listen to both on my phone with the same amp. As of now, I concur that Sine sounds very good, but also fatiguing--M-100 has a more relaxed sound in the mids while still being nicely detailed. Without a dedicated amp on an android device, Sine sounds worse than M-100. I actually have a healthy amount of respect now for my V-Modas. Now to get a proper amp... Not sure if it should be Cayin C5 or Fiio A5.

I use the Fiio Q1 - it's cheap, and carries a bunch of power. It works well with the Sine. I have been EQing to add a bit more mid-bass to the Sine and dropping some of the treble peak down because I find the Sines a tad bright.

 

[TidalWave]

I use the Fiio Q1 - it's cheap, and carries a bunch of power. It works well with the Sine. I have been EQing to add a bit more mid-bass to the Sine and dropping some of the treble peak down because I find the Sines a tad bright.

Unfortunately I can't use any DAC/amp that requires USB input: my phone's micro USB port is pretty wonky and only reliably connects with certain cables at this point that have to be inserted just right. I'm worried enough about being able to charge it in the long term. Limiting myself to 3.5mm socket only for amplification, hence looking at Fiio A5 or Cayin C5.

 

[antdroid]

Unfortunately I can't use any DAC/amp that requires USB input: my phone's micro USB port is pretty wonky and only reliably connects with certain cables at this point that have to be inserted just right. I'm worried enough about being able to charge it in the long term. Limiting myself to 3.5mm socket only for amplification, hence looking at Fiio A5 or Cayin C5.

The beauty of the Q1 is you can ignore the USB Dac function altogether. Just use Line In for Amp output. It also comes with a nice mini interconnect 3.5mm cable. Just FYI - I dont use the USB function of the Q1 at all.

 

[TidalWave]

The beauty of the Q1 is you can ignore the USB Dac function altogether. Just use Line In for Amp output. It also comes with a nice mini interconnect 3.5mm cable. Just FYI - I dont use the USB function of the Q1 at all.

Ah I see that it has line-in now. Isn't it going to be not powerful enough for these headphones? I keep reading that Sine does better with a powerful amp.
http://www.fiio.net/en/products/44/parameters
http://www.fiio.net/en/products/59/parameters

 

[antdroid]

Ah I see that it has line-in now. Isn't it going to be not powerful enough for these headphones? I keep reading that Sine does better with a powerful amp.
http://www.fiio.net/en/products/44/parameters
http://www.fiio.net/en/products/59/parameters

It works for me, and the bass boost helps too. I do typically use a desktop amp the majority of the time. If you're worried then the A5 is a nice looking portable.

 

[TidalWave]

Well, I would rather go on some facts rather than worry, so if someone could weigh in on whether a higher output amp is going to be noticeably better, it'd be great It would certainly be easier on my wallet to get a Q1, not to mention the great battery life. But if A5 is going to sound noticeably better, it doesn't cost too much more on the used market.

 

[antdroid]

Well, I would rather go on some facts rather than worry, so if someone could weigh in on whether a higher output amp is going to be noticeably better, it'd be great It would certainly be easier on my wallet to get a Q1, not to mention the great battery life. But if A5 is going to sound noticeably better, it doesn't cost too much more on the used market.

I've used it with my Magni 2 which significantly more powerful and a SMSL VA2 at work which is somewhere between the Q1 and the Magni 2 in terms of output power -- and yes, the Q1 will require almost maxing out the amp to get it to full volume, while the others have more headroom. It still sounds fine to me though. If you're worried, get the A5. I'm sure the A5 will require less on the volume knob, and probably a slightly cleaner sound.

 

[TidalWave]

Sorry about all the random questions, but here's another: do I need a powerful amp AND a dedicated external DAC to get Audeze Sine to sound better than with the cipher cable? I.e. if I use something like Fiio A5 or Cayin C5 as amp-only, combined with my android cell phone (reasonable DAC), am I going to get sound quality as good or better than Cipher cable combo with my iPad? Or do I also need a DAC to replace on-board phone processing too?

 

[sup27606]

Sorry about all the random questions, but here's another: do I need a powerful amp AND a dedicated external DAC to get Audeze Sine to sound better than with the cipher cable? I.e. if I use something like Fiio A5 or Cayin C5 as amp only combined with my android cell phone (reasonable DAC), am I going to get sound quality as good or better than Cipher cable combo with my iPad? Or do I also need a DAC to replace on-board phone processing too?

Honestly, the Sine scales well with high end amps and dacs, but lets admit, its intended for portable use and is not going to scale or behave like a LCD series headphone. I found, Sine sounds noticeably better than the cipher with the Cayin C5 coupled with a HifiMe Sabre 9018 DAC. This DAC is surely not the most spectacular one out there ... so I can imagine, with a better DAC, the sound quality would be even more improved. So far, I have tested it with the Modi Multibit which I have, and the sound resolution was better compared to the HifiMe DAC. A portable amp that delivers 500mW or more at 20 ohms would be sufficient in driving the Sine to it's near full potential.

 

[TidalWave]

Honestly, the Sine scales well with high end amps and dacs, but lets admit, its intended for portable use and is not going to scale or behave like a LCD series headphone. I found, Sine sounds noticeably better than the cipher with the Cayin C5 coupled with a HifiMe Sabre 9018 DAC. This DAC is surely not the most spectacular one out there ... so I can imagine, with a better DAC, the sound quality would be even more improved. So far, I have tested it with the Modi Multibit which I have, and the sound resolution was better compared to the HifiMe DAC. A portable amp that delivers 500mW or more at 20 ohms would be sufficient in driving the Sine to it's near full potential.

Thanks! I meant not so much comparing discrete DACs and more like “phone + amp” vs. “phone + DAC + amp”. Would the former still be potentially better than Cipher cable? Or does it require a discrete DAC in addition to amp to get the same or better. I hope just phone + 3.5mm battery-powered amp is sufficient, because I’m not into the idea of carrying a tripple stack every day.