[Pharmaboy]

   
Hi, have you heard theirs NFB-1AMP? Or maybe you know of any comparison between SA31SE and NFB-1AMP?
 
On their main website Audio GD specifies four different USB interfaces:
a) USB-32
b) Amanero combo 384
c) Xmos U8
d) Xmos U208 (since Nov 2016)
Is there any consensus regarding the above in the meaning of "best audio" performance?

 
No, I haven't heard the NFB-1. At one point I was very interested in this balanced amp & its SE version, the C-2. One Head-Fi pal has the C-2 and really likes it. The price of each was right, but I ended up going in other directions. Also, at the time I was interested in these, I couldn't decide on balanced vs SE--had a ZMF Ori on the horizon, knew I'd want to run it balanced.
 
Then I read this entire thread for the SA-31SE (which is SE but also has a 4-pin XLR "convenience output") and knew I had to hear it.
 
Re USB interfaces, of course those don't apply to these amps, though they probably do apply to the DAC that's also (confusingly) named "NFB-1." I have the Audio GD NOS 19; as of 8/16 (date of purchase) it had the latest/greated Amanero implementation. I did install the driver (w/the usual great difficulty/annoyance/confusion for Audio GD drivers) and listened to it via USB input. However, I found the coax input (1.3 Oyaide DR-510 coax cable coming from Musical Fidelity V192 Link) sounded better than direct USB--as it does on every DAC I've had.
 
Re all the Audio GD USB implentations, you can read about them in extreme detail in the Audio GD DAC-19 thread (some, but not all implementations are available on other DACs & all-in-one units). Honestly, I find it hard to keep track of all that detail...

 

[Mike Nee]

Re USB interfaces, of course those don't apply to these amps, though they probably do apply to the DAC that's also (confusingly) named "NFB-1." I have the Audio GD NOS 19; as of 8/16 (date of purchase) it had the latest/greated Amanero implementation. I did install the driver (w/the usual great difficulty/annoyance/confusion for Audio GD drivers) and listened to it via USB input. However, I found the coax input (1.3 Oyaide DR-510 coax cable coming from Musical Fidelity V192 Link) sounded better than direct USB--as it does on every DAC I've had.

I asked about the USB interface, as on Polish distributor's website this particular model is listed amongst integrated dac/amp, based on Burr-Brown 1704 chip. Therefore I assumed it would have one of them USB interfaces.

When you wrote about "convenience XLR" output, this meant that SA31SE is not a balanced amp?
And lastly, there is sth mentioned about possibility of making the sound warmer. Is this a feature found only on "diamond differential" designs, only on "SE" marked models or just sth else?
I'm interested in both NFB-1AMP and Reference 10.32, but neither of these is described as having the ability to warm the sound.

 

[Pharmaboy]

I asked about the USB interface, as on Polish distributor's website this particular model is listed amongst integrated dac/amp, based on Burr-Brown 1704 chip. Therefore I assumed it would have one of them USB interfaces.

When you wrote about "convenience XLR" output, this meant that SA31SE is not a balanced amp?
And lastly, there is sth mentioned about possibility of making the sound warmer. Is this a feature found only on "diamond differential" designs, only on "SE" marked models or just sth else?
I'm interested in both NFB-1AMP and Reference 10.32, but neither of these is described as having the ability to warm the sound.

 
Audio GD has confusing model names. As I mentioned, there are 2 "NFB1" products, but they're very different:

1. NFB1-DAC: Being a DAC, not an amp, this unit would have a USB implementation. Per the Audio GD website, it's "32bit / 384K Asynchronous Transfer  XMOS U208 Chip" w/a "Custom Upgrade" available to "Upgrade to the Amanero combo384 USB module:" Here's the product page: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB12017/NFB12017EN.htm
2. NFB1-AMP: This is an amp only, no DAC involved. So no USB implementation. Here's the product page: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN.htm

 
The SA-31SE is single-ended all the way. The XLR output (I believe) simply transmits the single-ended output via 4-pin XLR for "user convenience." And I will be using the XLR when my balanced cable comes in for the Ori. But unlike true balanced amps, I won't experience 6 dB more power or a somewhat better/different sound via the XLR vs SE outputs on this amp.
 
Re the "warming" controls, again, Audio GD is very confusing in this regard. Some (not all) of their all-in-one units have this feature, which seems to apply only to the DAC section. For example, I had an NFB-15.32 all-in-one that had multiple filter settings on the front panel, some said to produce "warmer" sound than others. And my NOS 19 DAC definitely has several jumper settings (you have to take off the top cover do add or remove jumpers to the circuit board) said to make sound warmer.
 
My SA-31SE (which is amp only--no DAC) also has 2 jumper setting, "Warm" and "Warmer." But the NFB1-AMP apparently does not have this capability.
 
With Audio GD (many models/much confusion), you have to carefully review the product page for each model to check what exact USB implementations are available (if it is a stand-alone DAC, or an all-in-one), and jumper or front-panel settings to warm the sound (some DACs; some amps).
 
Like I said--very confusing...

 

[Mike Nee]

   
Audio GD has confusing model names. As I mentioned, there are 2 "NFB1" products, but they're very different:

1. NFB1-DAC: Being a DAC, not an amp, this unit would have a USB implementation. Per the Audio GD website, it's "32bit / 384K Asynchronous Transfer  XMOS U208 Chip" w/a "Custom Upgrade" available to "Upgrade to the Amanero combo384 USB module:" Here's the product page: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB12017/NFB12017EN.htm
2. NFB1-AMP: This is an amp only, no DAC involved. So no USB implementation. Here's the product page: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN.htm

 

Thx again for reply. I'm aware of two separate NFB-1 models. I was referring to NFB-1AMP and Reference 10.32 mostly as amps, taking silent joy in the fact that 10.32 is a DAC as well (4x1704) and would save me pondering over upgrading my well seasoned Arcam irDAC. Two birds killed with one stone.. I've also learned today that this particular unit of 10.32 I'm interested in has VIA Vinyl Audio VT1731 USB interface and it is not possible to upgrade this to neither XU208 nor Amanero 384. As I don't have funds to purchase separate USB interface I must rely on built-in interface done right. Hence I bias towards Denafrip Ares now or the Singularity 19, but I must educate myself more on NOS vs OS DACs. 

 

[geomaso44]

I have one 230V-compatible unit for sale currently if interested: https://head-fi.org/threads/fs-ft-audio-gd-sa-31se-230v.865975/

Its a great-sounding versatile amp that has served me well for a long time but decided to move on to tube amps currently.

 

[heybaroo]

Don't know if anyone is still following this thread, but I just have to weigh in on the Audio GD SA-31SE.

I bought mine from a Head-Fi bud about 6 weeks ago, around the same time I got a new ZMF Ori. Those are incredible headphones that do everything rather differently & better than I'm used to. They sound spectacularly good through the SA-31SE. But oddly enough, the Ori made it harder to figure out what this amp can do (studying 2 unknown variables is harder than just one).

I've been trying the Ori on other HP amps in house, and can confirm it's an amazing headphone, regardless of source. But it was only tonight that I finally listened to other headphones on the SA-31SE--2 inexpensive Chinese closed-back designs I've had for a number of months...I know their sound well, or thought I did.

Listening to one of them now on the SA-31SE, and it's striking to hear this inexpensive-but-good headphone scale right up with the SA-31SE. For the first time with the Marantz MPH-2, I'm hearing richly detailed midrange, full of subtle positional nuances and great finesse in the sound of percussion. It sounds so good. Got the same basic result with the Yenona Adapter Free DJ headphones...they both sound like themselves, but greatly improved. I'll try the Philips Fidelio X2's tomorrow.

Suddenly it's very clear that the SA-31SE is absolutely the equal of the Ori. Each produces great note separation, finesse, and detail, top to bottom, with zero brightness or "sheen." I have other amps that hit harder & a touch lower in the bass, and have somewhat more impactful dynamics overall. But I've never heard another amp even come close to the SA-31SE in the subtle sonic areas of soundstaging and microdynamics. For example, the SA-31SE is easily the best amp I've ever heard for percussion...all kinds of percussion.

I am so lucky to have found this amp. BTW, my DAC is the equally superb Audio GD NOS 19. I'm guessing the SA-31SE has unusual synergy with this DAC.

(life is good!)

Very late reply but haven't been here in quite a while...did you end up trying the Fidelio X2s with the SA-31. I'm thinking about getting some second hand ones... although possibly not necessary as I have some HD6XXs on their way...

 

[Pharmaboy]

Very late reply but haven't been here in quite a while...did you end up trying the Fidelio X2s with the SA-31. I'm thinking about getting some second hand ones... although possibly not necessary as I have some HD6XXs on their way...

I honestly don't remember trying the X2s with the SA-31, or what the result was. A lot has changed in my system since then--including addition of Violectric V281 & Cavalli Liquid Carbon.

One thing that has not changed is the X2s. They're terrific, fun, enjoyable headphones. I have other headphones that beat them in numerous ways, but it doesn't seem to matter: every time I put on the X2s, I enjoy them & the music. Guess it's the combination of open-back relaxed sound & imaging, plus the strong bass/mid-bass and natural treble. Other headphones do detail; the X2s do music.

I recommend that you get a pair. But you'll discover that the original X2s are being discontinued & may be hard to find. Philips is selling a new/"improved" HD version of the X2s that look exactly the same but are said to feel & sound slightly different. They also are priced higher.

If you can get a pair of original X2s, either new or used, I would recommend that. There are other threads here dedicated the X2s.

BTW, I still use the SA-31SE quite often, but mostly as a preamp (it is a superb preamp). As a headphone amp it is rather subtle and unpredictable: it sounds dramatic & great w/this headphone, but not that. I've concluded that the assets of the SA-31SE as a headphone amp are its extreme power; but also its consistent subtlety, particularly in midrange soundstaging. It's a shape-shifter, and despite all that power, the very opposite of a brute-force SS amp sound.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Very late reply but haven't been here in quite a while...did you end up trying the Fidelio X2s with the SA-31. I'm thinking about getting some second hand ones... although possibly not necessary as I have some HD6XXs on their way...

In 1st reply missed your comment about getting the HD6XX's. I only heard 1 HD650, and it was modded. I thought the mod must be very successful, because the headphones really impressed me with their even, unhyped rendition of all frequencies & pinpoint focus in soundstaging and sonic detail. Very clear & focused, but not bright at all--interesting combination. Anyway, IMO, despite the surface similarities between the open-back X2s and HD650's, they couldn't be more different. The X2s give an entirely different sonic view: diffuse soundstage, bassy, slightly warm.

I'd want to own both of those headphones.

BTW, after thinking about it, I do remember one experience w/the X2s on the SA-31SE. It was not exactly what you'd expect, because I was experimenting w/new Brainwavz round pleather earpads used in place of the X2's stock velour earpads (rather difficult to switch these pads...check X2s thread for more detail. Anyway, this was during the summer and I was trying the X2's + new earpads on all my amps. When I plugged them into the SA-31SE, I got one of those fortuitous "lock-in" moments, where a given amp and pair of headphones lock-in and provide great sound. I got the best sound w/that headphone + pads on the SA-31SE vs other amps. A fun night.

 

[heybaroo]

In 1st reply missed your comment about getting the HD6XX's. I only heard 1 HD650, and it was modded. I thought the mod must be very successful, because the headphones really impressed me with their even, unhyped rendition of all frequencies & pinpoint focus in soundstaging and sonic detail. Very clear & focused, but not bright at all--interesting combination. Anyway, IMO, despite the surface similarities between the open-back X2s and HD650's, they couldn't be more different. The X2s give an entirely different sonic view: diffuse soundstage, bassy, slightly warm.

I'd want to own both of those headphones.

BTW, after thinking about it, I do remember one experience w/the X2s on the SA-31SE. It was not exactly what you'd expect, because I was experimenting w/new Brainwavz round pleather earpads used in place of the X2's stock velour earpads (rather difficult to switch these pads...check X2s thread for more detail. Anyway, this was during the summer and I was trying the X2's + new earpads on all my amps. When I plugged them into the SA-31SE, I got one of those fortuitous "lock-in" moments, where a given amp and pair of headphones lock-in and provide great sound. I got the best sound w/that headphone + pads on the SA-31SE vs other amps. A fun night.

Thank you so much for your detailed and insightful comments. Probably the tipping point I've needed to get a pair. I've wanted to try a pair since they came out as the majority of reviews and comments align with my sound preferences as do most ZMF headphones. Looking at your list of gear, you seem to currently own quite a few things sound signature wise, I would like to try as well especially the V281, Liquid Carbon, NOS 19, Ori, and E-mu...

Like yourself, I've come into desktop audio from a two channel setup including Cayin tube amplifier, hybrid tube cd player, and Dynaudio standmounts. Small children combined with a large mortgage have necessitated large audio changes...

I've been particularly impressed with the value proposition offered by a digital setup particularly with pro audio gear.

I'm hoping to come across that synergy that you had that night with the X2s, pads and SA-31 SE. Always makes for a great night when it's found...

Anyway, thanks again for your insights. As luck would have it, I've just received a notification that the X2s I was looking at have just sold...oh well, I'll keep looking. Hopefully, one day soon, (as the mortgage decreases) we can share thoughts on some ZMF headphones and amp combinations...