[Phaedru5]

I'm an on again/off again, intermediate audiophile and I'm beginning to get back into the hi-fi world again after a ~5 year break.

I currently predominantly listen to Electronic/EDM/Ambient--Aphex Twin, Boards of Canada, Yosi Horikawa, Darkside, Brian Eno, etc and love sub bass + clarity. I sold most of my gear many years ago, but still own an OG Hifiman 400i, Bose QSC35ii's, and a pair of ATH-M50s which I run through a Fulla Schiit DAC. Sound quality is alright, but none of the cans are very "fun," or particularly expressive in the sub bass region. The M50s have their fantastic mid-bass punch, but lack the real growl of the sub frequencies and the soundstage of open-back. The 400i's are clear and decently spacious, but flat in the sub bass region and don't have much punch.

I scooped up a pair of Airpod Max's out of curiosity and have been blown away by their sub bass response... Of the three headphones I own they are now, by a large margin, the most "fun" for the genres I listen to (a great sub bass test track is "The Amazing Sounds of Orgy" by Radiohead, Amnesiac B-Side and I tend to use that track as my baseline). They're kind of soft/lack clarity in the midrange and the highs are almost a bit harsh, but generally their sound profile is very enjoyable. If they had the same clarity and seperation that the sub bass presents throughout the frequency band, they'd be unreal.

Concerned I wasn't really getting the most out of my other headphones, I decided to order the Magni/Modi set to see if I could push them into their respective sweet spots (I have to max the Fulla to get decent volume in the 400i's). My intention is to return the Airpod Max's if I can get either of my current headphones to give me the equivalent sub-bass fun factor coupled with the clarity/soundstage of open-back headphones. I don't need APMs and QSC35's, the latter still being the reigning comfort champion with perfectly adequate ANC.

Do you think I'll be able to get the 400i's to present the fun-factor I'm looking for with the proper amperage and EQing? I was looking to pick up a set of Argon MK3's (I know they're closed-back and the soundstage will be tighter) too to be my new fun headphone; however, their production has been halted due to a T50 shortage and I don't know when I'll be able to purchase a set anytime soon.

Advice/recommendations? Budget is limited and I can only justify the purchase of another set of <$350 headphones if I return the APMs.

Please don't provide any critique/advice related to the APMs if you haven't actually listened to them. The armchair theorizing based on frequency charts and negative biases isn't of value to me. I am not an Apple fan boy by any measure. Just tried them out on a whim and was very surprised by their performance.

Total budget would be ~$550, either keep the APMs or purchase an amp+dac+headphone set with the same sub bass performance with added clarity and more spacious throughout the frequency band.

 

[silent-circuit]

I'd say the Sundaras with EQ may do what you want, or close to it. If the 400i with eq and more power gets you 75% of the way there, the Sundara may get you that last 25%.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I'm an on again/off again, intermediate audiophile and I'm beginning to get back into the hi-fi world again after a ~5 year break.

I currently predominantly listen to Electronic/EDM/Ambient--Aphex Twin, Boards of Canada, Yosi Horikawa, Darkside, Brian Eno, etc and love sub bass + clarity. I sold most of my gear many years ago, but still own an OG Hifiman 400i, Bose QSC35ii's, and a pair of ATH-M50s which I run through a Fulla Schiit DAC. Sound quality is alright, but none of the cans are very "fun," or particularly expressive in the sub bass region. The M50s have their fantastic mid-bass punch, but lack the real growl of the sub frequencies and the soundstage of open-back. The 400i's are clear and decently spacious, but flat in the sub bass region and don't have much punch.

I scooped up a pair of Airpod Max's out of curiosity and have been blown away by their sub bass response... Of the three headphones I own they are now, by a large margin, the most "fun" for the genres I listen to (a great sub bass test track is "The Amazing Sounds of Orgy" by Radiohead, Amnesiac B-Side and I tend to use that track as my baseline). They're kind of soft/lack clarity in the midrange and the highs are almost a bit harsh, but generally their sound profile is very enjoyable. If they had the same clarity and seperation that the sub bass presents throughout the frequency band, they'd be unreal.

Concerned I wasn't really getting the most out of my other headphones, I decided to order the Magni/Modi set to see if I could push them into their respective sweet spots (I have to max the Fulla to get decent volume in the 400i's). My intention is to return the Airpod Max's if I can get either of my current headphones to give me the equivalent sub-bass fun factor coupled with the clarity/soundstage of open-back headphones. I don't need APMs and QSC35's, the latter still being the reigning comfort champion with perfectly adequate ANC.

Do you think I'll be able to get the 400i's to present the fun-factor I'm looking for with the proper amperage and EQing? I was looking to pick up a set of Argon MK3's (I know they're closed-back and the soundstage will be tighter) too to be my new fun headphone; however, their production has been halted due to a T50 shortage and I don't know when I'll be able to purchase a set anytime soon.

Advice/recommendations? Budget is limited and I can only justify the purchase of another set of <$350 headphones if I return the APMs.

Please don't provide any critique/advice related to the APMs if you haven't actually listened to them. The armchair theorizing based on frequency charts and negative biases isn't of value to me. I am not an Apple fan boy by any measure. Just tried them out on a whim and was very surprised by their performance.

Total budget would be ~$550, either keep the APMs or purchase an amp+dac+headphone set with the same sub bass performance with added clarity and more spacious throughout the frequency band.

If you are blown away by the Airpods Max, you should keep them. Why downgrade from what you like?

Me, I didn't like the Airpods Max at all, so I think you would probably not like any of my recommendations.

 

[Phaedru5]

If you are blown away by the Airpods Max, you should keep them. Why downgrade from what you like?

Me, I didn't like the Airpods Max at all, so I think you would probably not like any of my recommendations.

To be clear: I was blown away by the sub bass of the APMs. The rest of the profile is meh. I think my 400i’s have way better sound stage and clarity throughout, and the M50s have a better mid bass punch. Keeping in mind what I’m seeking—sub bass + clarity + soundstage—I’d be interested in anybody’s recommendations.

I'd say the Sundaras with EQ may do what you want, or close to it. If the 400i with eq and more power gets you 75% of the way there, the Sundara may get you that last 25%.

I looked into Sundaras, but I kept reading that the bass isn’t that impressive. Maybe I could EQ it into my desired sweet spot?

 

[Phaedru5]

Just listened to "Amazing Sounds of Orgy" again on all three. It's not even close. APMs win hands down, by a mile. No amount of EQing on either can bring out the visceral low-end growl that the APMs can produce. I don't think the 400is or the 50s drivers can handle those frequencies at all, really.

There has to be some mid/high-end open back that can produce what I'm looking for?

 

[Old Dirty Puppy]

I can't really think of too many open backs that have great sub bass below the 300 dollar mark. The monoprice M1070 might be a good option. They are slightly above your budget at 350 dollars. Also if you don't mind the used market you might be able to find a pair of Audeze EL8 open backs around $300 - $400.

I recommend checking out reviews of both, maybe you'll like them.

 

[Phaedru5]

I can't really think of too many open backs that have great sub bass below the 300 dollar mark. The monoprice M1070 might be a good option. They are slightly above your budget at 350 dollars. Also if you don't mind the used market you might be able to find a pair of Audeze EL8 open backs around $300 - $400.

I recommend checking out reviews of both, maybe you'll like them.

Right on. Thank you for the heads up. I'll check those out.

At this point, I'm leaning towards an Asgard 3, Modi 3+, and a set of Argon Mk3s if/when I can find them. I know they're not open back and maybe not the most transparent, but it sounds like their bass response is right on the money and their soundstage is super wide. Ticks 2 of my 3 boxes.

I'll explore the options you mentioned though as well. Nothing set it stone yet.

 

[Old Dirty Puppy]

Right on. Thank you for the heads up. I'll check those out.

At this point, I'm leaning towards an Asgard 3, Modi 3+, and a set of Argon Mk3s if/when I can find them. I know they're not open back and maybe not the most transparent, but it sounds like their bass response is right on the money and their soundstage is super wide. Ticks 2 of my 3 boxes.

I'll explore the options you mentioned though as well. Nothing set it stone yet.

Good luck getting the Argons MK3. Not sure how hard it is to get the MK3 but I gave up on getting a pair of T60rp Argons and I recently picked up a pair of used LCD2 classics instead. I messaged Modhouse twice because I had a question about sending in a pair of T60rp for conversion but I never got a reply back. Plus even if I had got a reply back their site had an 8 week waiting time listed for the T60rp Argons which I was cool with at the time. But they never contacted me back after I messaged them so I moved on. I know it's basically a one man team making the Argons so I don't blame them for the lack of communication. The dude must be seriously over worked.
But anyways it might be easier to go with a different option if you don't want to wait that long.

 

[Phaedru5]

Good luck getting the Argons MK3. Not sure how hard it is to get the MK3 but I gave up on getting a pair of T60rp Argons and I recently picked up a pair of used LCD2 classics instead. I messaged Modhouse twice because I had a question about sending in a pair of T60rp for conversion but I never got a reply back. Plus even if I had got a reply back their site had an 8 week waiting time listed for the T60rp Argons which I was cool with at the time. But they never contacted me back after I messaged them so I moved on. I know it's basically a one man team making the Argons so I don't blame them for the lack of communication. The dude must be seriously over worked.
But anyways it might be easier to go with a different option if you don't want to wait that long.

I hear you. I'm in the same boat, multiple messages, no response. However, he still is offering conversions. LCD-2s are still a bit out of my price range, so I'll take my chances and purchase a conversion via PayPal and hope that that spurs some communication on his part. If not, the LCD-2cs are probably next on my radar.

 

[Old Dirty Puppy]

I hear you. I'm in the same boat, multiple messages, no response. However, he still is offering conversions. LCD-2s are still a bit out of my price range, so I'll take my chances and purchase a conversion via PayPal and hope that that spurs some communication on his part. If not, the LCD-2cs are probably next on my radar.

Good luck with the Argons! But if it doesn't work out I would still recommend you check out the Monoprice M1070 before you jump up to Audeze LCD2 . The M1070 often get described as a slightly lower tier Audeze LCD headphone.

 

[Phaedru5]

Good luck with the Argons! But if it doesn't work out I would still recommend you check out the Monoprice M1070 before you jump up to Audeze LCD2 . The M1070 often get described as a slightly lower tier Audeze LCD headphone.

Ok, cool, I'll check them out. Thank you!