CanJam NYC 2018 Impressions (February 17-18, 2018)
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Feb 20, 2018 at 11:27 PM Post #151 of 335
Yea, 'snake oil' was too bit of a strong word for it.. I shall retract it.

The diminishing return of course, just as many other products from different categories. But don't make it flat.. Even if that's must be the case, then at least make the line-up well differentiated enough and making it a 'matter or taste'.
That's your opinion Vs a business model.
64 generally (I mean really generally) has :
Bass head, stage(warmish neutral), and at the tippity top(exciting)
Whereas vision ears, (with similar pricing)
Has: vshaped, bassy vshaped, reference, vocals, and an all-rounder at the top. It's just a different business model
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 11:27 PM Post #152 of 335
As for the 64audio lines, I did hear all 4 of them. Overall the sound characteristics were tuned very much alike. In detail, I could tell a very little subtle differences between 2 of them, but I had to do it with utter focus and going back and forth the same part of the songs multiple times.

Believe me, you're not the only one who's felt/said that. There are plenty of people who said the same thing...
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 11:28 PM Post #153 of 335
The only reason why I wrote what I wrote is that I feel sad and angry about something. Sure similar things have been happening everywhere all the time but, because I am into this particular thing, I think of others in the same community as my comrades (not sure if its the right word).
Being passionate or in love, about something or someone, his/hers judgement is clouded, thus becoming vulnerable to be preyed on. I could not keep my silence when seeing some parties are trying to exploit this.
Someone years or decades into this may laugh at me for a some reasons, but I guess its just because he/she has become numbed about the situations already.
After all, 'people are willing to pay what they THINK its worth', no doubt. But I hate to see when their judgement is proactively being muddied too much by other for-profit organizations.

I don't use IEMs very often, maybe 1 hour a day, and went through about 10 of them ranging from $300 to $3000 retail, but finally settled at the AK T8ie Mk2, even though a spare pair just in case I break or lose it someday.
I tried the 5 of Campfire's IEMs, and the differences were very obvious in terms of sound characteristics, so among these, I'd guess its more of matter of taste more than one is doing better than the other.
As for the 64audio lines, I did hear all 4 of them. Overall the sound characteristics were tuned very much alike. In detail, I could tell a very little subtle differences between 2 of them, but I had to do it with utter focus and going back and forth the same part of the songs multiple times.
XD they have more than 4 at least. Maybe not released yet so either way you didn't listen to everything
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 11:30 PM Post #154 of 335
Believe me, you're not the only one who's felt/said that. There are plenty of people who said the same thing...
I believe they have a new line coming if it wasn't released at canjam nyc
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 11:48 PM Post #155 of 335
The only reason why I wrote what I wrote is that I feel sad and angry about something. Sure similar things have been happening everywhere all the time but, because I am into this particular thing, I think of others in the same community as my comrades (not sure if its the right word).
Being passionate or in love, about something or someone, his/hers judgement is clouded, thus becoming vulnerable to be preyed on. I could not keep my silence when seeing some parties are trying to exploit this.
Someone years or decades into this may laugh at me for a some reasons, but I guess its just because he/she has become numbed about the situations already.
After all, 'people are willing to pay what they THINK its worth', no doubt. But I hate to see when their judgement is proactively being muddied too much by other for-profit organizations.

I don't use IEMs very often, maybe 1 hour a day, and went through about 10 of them ranging from $300 to $3000 retail, but finally settled at the AK T8ie Mk2, even though a spare pair just in case I break or lose it someday.
I tried the 5 of Campfire's IEMs, and the differences were very obvious in terms of sound characteristics, so among these, I'd guess its more of matter of taste more than one is doing better than the other.
As for the 64audio lines, I did hear all 4 of them. Overall the sound characteristics were tuned very much alike. In detail, I could tell a very little subtle differences between 2 of them, but I had to do it with utter focus and going back and forth the same part of the songs multiple times.

Nothing new to most of us. 64 Audio used to be more customer oriented releasing reasonable priced products which sounds great for the price. But as time goes by, similar with other companies they got more money oriented. I used to support their products, but the change in their company's attitude drove me away.
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 11:55 PM Post #156 of 335
The "hole" you are referring to is already a controversial subject dating back to (now) three years old, so it is safe to say you r not familiar with the subject. Please look on the relevant threads to familiarise yourself before starting abt the "hole".
The campfire and periodic audio lineups are supposed to be tuned different for every iem, other manufacturers choose some signatures (3-4) usually. Then they change the driver configuration to fit the price point. As the prices, number of drivers etc increase, the technical performance of the product increases ie: soundstage, details, resolution. I personally do not have "golden ears" and my wallet does restrict me somewhat but I am sure I can here the difference between the lineup. (From hours at various dealers in sg. Shout-out to music sanctuary, zeppelin, e1pasg and euphoria audio)
@64Audio , maybe you guys can explain apex tech better

familiarise with it?? The principal is utterly simple! The details are just to explain how and why the principal work.
It is simply a mechanical mean to relive sound pressure, by punching a hole on the IEM housing. All the R&D then goes into finding an optimal hole size and shape, and an optimal spot to punch it, in such a way that the acoustics are preserved reasonably well. This is not at all mathematically complex or numerically expensive to simulate, nor engineeringly challenging to realize.

and what you meant by "supposed to be tuned different for every iem"??? Who supposed it?
They publicly announced it? And other ones did not, and said something like "everything we have are tuned alike with subtle difference in the details..."??
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 11:57 PM Post #157 of 335
1: Punching a hole is not an technology at all. But, given the the shape, size, and material of the IEM housing, as well the characteristics of the drivers, finding a certain spot to punch the hole to achieve certain goal involves some R&D, but very minimal! Thus I find it hard to justify something like this as a technology, unless the bar is really low.
2: Who knows its over or not. As long they are desperate to 'WOW' consumers with some 'world first', this can be an easy route.
3: I certainly did not buy it. I bet vast majority of the experienced people did not too. Plus, I said 'I and my friends could not hear any difference', and never claimed anything as if I am stating an objective fact.
Btw, I tried the Campfire, Periodic, and many more. Many of them I could easily identify the differences in some major acoustic characteristics, not matter of good or bad sounds, but matter of preferences. So a line-up ranging from $1k to $3k+, all tuned very similarly, except some fine details requiring good listening condition and experienced ears to distinguish? That's just some lazy engineering, yet justified by the ''hole'' and ''world first''.

Overall, 'if you can't tell the difference... just don't buy it..' the very sentence has been said over and over and over. The thing is, the other way of the phrase "buy only when you can tell a difference" is often not followed because some people do buy them, but in fact can't tell the difference beyond placebos due to the "technologies" and "world first" and the "$$$$ it costs".
I feel you bro.
At first I also thought so, but after a while I start to appreciate my rigs more and more.
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 11:57 PM Post #158 of 335
I didn’t go to Camjam this year (spent too much last year, so didn’t want to jeopardize my marriage), but I will say that although it’s a great opportunity to hear a lot of things, it is a less than ideal listening environment. Last year, I went in with the goal of looking to buy a couple things (a “totl” headphone and an amp or DAC/amp) and listened to as many things as I could in those categories with the goal of narrowing down finalists. I was fortunate to meet a dealer that helped me pinpoint what I like, and I made my purchases later.

My point is that CanJam is great for separating what for you is good and bad, but not the best for hearing differences once you are high up on the diminishing returns slope.
 
Feb 21, 2018 at 12:01 AM Post #159 of 335
Nothing new to most of us. 64 Audio used to be more customer oriented releasing reasonable priced products which sounds great for the price. But as time goes by, similar with other companies they got more money oriented. I used to support their products, but the change in their company's attitude drove me away.

Glad to notice that someone here actually acknowledges the history of 64 Audio.
 
Feb 21, 2018 at 12:18 AM Post #160 of 335
This is interesting...we have a lot of guys new to the site full of piss and vinegar about IEM cost, build, etc. I think its a little strange though...

Yes us more seasoned members have a lot more jaded attitudes now a days...I mean...most of us feel the same way about cost/worth of an IEM. I am always ranting about cost of cables, because I have work associates who trade in that material. I can't fathom anyone paying $6K for a cable unless it's made of pure gold or platinum and it gives a (insert sexual act here) after you're done listening to the song...but hey...that's just me...

Sorry for the innuendo @doggiemom
 
Feb 21, 2018 at 12:19 AM Post #161 of 335
All in all I thought it was a great show and awesome to meet all the head-fi members!
 
Feb 21, 2018 at 12:21 AM Post #162 of 335
Nothing new to most of us. 64 Audio used to be more customer oriented releasing reasonable priced products which sounds great for the price. But as time goes by, similar with other companies they got more money oriented. I used to support their products, but the change in their company's attitude drove me away.

I can’t believe I forgot, didn’t they start of by making “affordable custom iems” ?
 
Feb 21, 2018 at 12:22 AM Post #163 of 335
Feb 21, 2018 at 12:27 AM Post #164 of 335
Had a great weekend!! Thanks to everyone who came by the iBasso booth!
Thank you icefalco
Had a great weekend!! Thanks to everyone who came by the iBasso booth!
Thank you icefalkon, I was very impressed w/ the IT01 & IT04. I was about to drop a $1k on the CA Vegas and changed my mind after listening to the IT04’s. I’ll hold off till there released.
 
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