[Cao Mengde]

Hello, everyone, have a nice weekend.

Currently, I have the Sennheiser HDV820+HD800s combo, and use the USB from PC as my source.

Technically, the USB output from PC has a good potential but with so many shortcomings that will affect the quality of sound, like noisy power and poor clock.

So, I want to find another better source. I would like to get a CD player or transport as I have a great deal of CDs.

The choices I am considering right now are Cyrus CDi (a complete CD player that has both digital and analog outputs) and Cyrus CDXT signature (a CD transport that has only digital output). The main reason of considering Cyrus is the small size (similar as HDV820) of its products.

Obviously, CDi can provide more ways of playing and it also enjoys a much lower price (about half of the price of CDXT). But some fanciers say that it is better to use the DAC within HDV820 to have a complete "sound of Sennheiser", that means only a digital source is needed. From the digital-output point of view, CDXT is certainly better than CDi as it has a better power supply inside, which I think is very important to the sound of a CD player.

So now, I am confused which one should I have. Can anybody give me a suggestion? Many thanks in advance!

 

[]eep]

i see 2 things: half size formfactor and Singapore. And of course you want the best sound possible. I will start by saying I owned a Cyrus 2 amp for years in the nineties so I'm a long time fan. But i advised a later model to a friend and I was rather disappointed by the electronics part. Their electronics are not really conceived for longevity and durability as were their original amps. And their cd players are not exactly cheap. I used to have a similar player and to be honest, while i was happy at first, I gradually lost interest and was not happy about sound quality and reading ability. Sound is depending on the dac and developments have been made fast over the last years. Transports are not as good as the first transports but reading CD-R reading is problematic. Newer ones... I have no idea how long they last. And most cd-player use a Delta-Sigma dac with opamps but you don't get your choice. In my informed opinion R2R dacs are more natural sounding.

So, Singapore. I just bought a Denafrips Ares from Vinshine Audio in Singapore. Same formfactor and awesome sound that will stay awesome over time due to its discrete build. And quite a bit cheaper. If you have a pc, rip your cd's to flac and enjoy the ease and comfort of skip-free playback. I use a tiny portable server that plays 2 sd-cards from battery. Tempotec V1, remote via hiby app on my android phone. But from pc Foobar worked great for me. Big buffer works great for hard to read cd's. Only the pc noise remains. And firing up your pc... Also a reason I haven't played cd's for years is that going through my folder tree, or sorted by artist is so much more convenient.

And I haven't even mentioned high-res. Really a step up from cd.

My reason for looking for a transport is that i also still have hundreds of cd's and no pc so no possibility to rip. I have a really true high end system but I am not wasting money on an expensive transport/cd-player. I have a few older players and they all have the same reading issues.

My advice, get the Denafrips Ares R2R dac and just feed it anything. Preferably lossless high-res.

 

[Cao Mengde]

i see 2 things: half size formfactor and Singapore. And of course you want the best sound possible. I will start by saying I owned a Cyrus 2 amp for years in the nineties so I'm a long time fan. But i advised a later model to a friend and I was rather disappointed by the electronics part. Their electronics are not really conceived for longevity and durability as were their original amps. And their cd players are not exactly cheap. I used to have a similar player and to be honest, while i was happy at first, I gradually lost interest and was not happy about sound quality and reading ability. Sound is depending on the dac and developments have been made fast over the last years. Transports are not as good as the first transports but reading CD-R reading is problematic. Newer ones... I have no idea how long they last. And most cd-player use a Delta-Sigma dac with opamps but you don't get your choice. In my informed opinion R2R dacs are more natural sounding.

So, Singapore. I just bought a Denafrips Ares from Vinshine Audio in Singapore. Same formfactor and awesome sound that will stay awesome over time due to its discrete build. And quite a bit cheaper. If you have a pc, rip your cd's to flac and enjoy the ease and comfort of skip-free playback. I use a tiny portable server that plays 2 sd-cards from battery. Tempotec V1, remote via hiby app on my android phone. But from pc Foobar worked great for me. Big buffer works great for hard to read cd's. Only the pc noise remains. And firing up your pc... Also a reason I haven't played cd's for years is that going through my folder tree, or sorted by artist is so much more convenient.

And I haven't even mentioned high-res. Really a step up from cd.

My reason for looking for a transport is that i also still have hundreds of cd's and no pc so no possibility to rip. I have a really true high end system but I am not wasting money on an expensive transport/cd-player. I have a few older players and they all have the same reading issues.

My advice, get the Denafrips Ares R2R dac and just feed it anything. Preferably lossless high-res.

I really appreciate your kindly response and suggestion.

You suggested two things: 1) should not waste money on CD player or transport, and Cyrus is not a good choice, and 2) try a R2R DAC like Denafrips Ares.

From a practical use of point, it is certainly that CDP or CDT is much more complicated than the USB+DAC mode. In addition, I agree with you that the DAC is a key factor in our Hi-Fi system for improving the sound quality.

But based on your suggestions, I am now wondering that whether the updating to a R2R DAC is sufficient for improving my sound quality. As we all know, the quality of PC signal is much poor for achieving Hi-Fi standard. So, can a R2R DAC, like Denafrips Ares, refine (re-clock and reduce the digital noice) such a poor signal from PC?
Compared with the PC signal, CDP or CDT certainly can provide a much cleaner digital output, and that is why I considered a CDP or CDT previously.

In fact, I am very interested on using a high-quality USB-DAC as they really can provide a much better convenice in practical use with PC. But before I make the final decision, I need to make sure that a R2R DAC is able to "purify" the poor PC signal.

 

[Cao Mengde]

i see 2 things: half size formfactor and Singapore. And of course you want the best sound possible. I will start by saying I owned a Cyrus 2 amp for years in the nineties so I'm a long time fan. But i advised a later model to a friend and I was rather disappointed by the electronics part. Their electronics are not really conceived for longevity and durability as were their original amps. And their cd players are not exactly cheap. I used to have a similar player and to be honest, while i was happy at first, I gradually lost interest and was not happy about sound quality and reading ability. Sound is depending on the dac and developments have been made fast over the last years. Transports are not as good as the first transports but reading CD-R reading is problematic. Newer ones... I have no idea how long they last. And most cd-player use a Delta-Sigma dac with opamps but you don't get your choice. In my informed opinion R2R dacs are more natural sounding.

So, Singapore. I just bought a Denafrips Ares from Vinshine Audio in Singapore. Same formfactor and awesome sound that will stay awesome over time due to its discrete build. And quite a bit cheaper. If you have a pc, rip your cd's to flac and enjoy the ease and comfort of skip-free playback. I use a tiny portable server that plays 2 sd-cards from battery. Tempotec V1, remote via hiby app on my android phone. But from pc Foobar worked great for me. Big buffer works great for hard to read cd's. Only the pc noise remains. And firing up your pc... Also a reason I haven't played cd's for years is that going through my folder tree, or sorted by artist is so much more convenient.

And I haven't even mentioned high-res. Really a step up from cd.

My reason for looking for a transport is that i also still have hundreds of cd's and no pc so no possibility to rip. I have a really true high end system but I am not wasting money on an expensive transport/cd-player. I have a few older players and they all have the same reading issues.

My advice, get the Denafrips Ares R2R dac and just feed it anything. Preferably lossless high-res.

To my best knowledge, the PC signal is much poorer than the digital signals from other equipments like CDP or CDT.
In other words, compared with connecting to CDT or CDP, the performance of DAC will have a discount when connecting to PC.
So, I believe the quality of the source is very important for my headphone system, not only the DAC.
Thus I worry about that upgrading a DAC does not bring as much improvement in sound quality as upgrading a digital source.
Upgrading DAC is certainly an effective way for improvement, but it seems to me that it still cannot change the poor situation of PC signals.

 

[]eep]

in my 15y experience behind a pc (and 35 with cd-players) pc is vastly superior. I have 3 cd-players now and none of them work properly. So i just ordered a new Shanling for transport. I never had trouble with noise from my pc, maybe because i use(d) a Musiland usb to optical link (xmos chip). The old Ares had an XMOS usb input, now it has an even improved FPGA. One of the best usb implications.

If you really want to improve on that then you are way under budget.You will have to let the dac dictate the world clock (dac sends clock to transport). Go to the Denafrips site for exact explanation.

Im not saying Cyrus is not good, just i wouldn't spend that much money on something that i can't guarantee how long it will work well. All old cd-players i got my hands on (i work in a 2ndH shop too) have trouble reading. Computer optical drives are cheap and easy to replace and work infinitely better (ok 52x max but you get the point).

I don't have a pc anymore, i just use android. What i hear with the Ares II is absoluty clean. I use theittle Tempotec V1 as server, you can put 2 sd-cards in it to hold many, many cd's in flac. So then there's no 'bad signal' whatsoever. That cost me €700+70. Compare that to the Cyrus.

And i haven't even discussed high-res material. On an old laptop on my Teradak R2R (TE7022 input) that beat the hell out of any cd-player. And that is only 24/96. DSD is even better. My reference is my Clearaudio vinyl setup with Koetsu Urushi. With the Ares +Tempotec i really don't care anymore what is better since it's so close and so incredibly good. Ok, maybe DSD is a bit better now. But that has to do with mastering too.

 

[Cao Mengde]

in my 15y experience behind a pc (and 35 with cd-players) pc is vastly superior. I have 3 cd-players now and none of them work properly. So i just ordered a new Shanling for transport. I never had trouble with noise from my pc, maybe because i use(d) a Musiland usb to optical link (xmos chip). The old Ares had an XMOS usb input, now it has an even improved FPGA. One of the best usb implications.

If you really want to improve on that then you are way under budget.You will have to let the dac dictate the world clock (dac sends clock to transport). Go to the Denafrips site for exact explanation.

Im not saying Cyrus is not good, just i wouldn't spend that much money on something that i can't guarantee how long it will work well. All old cd-players i got my hands on (i work in a 2ndH shop too) have trouble reading. Computer optical drives are cheap and easy to replace and work infinitely better (ok 52x max but you get the point).

I don't have a pc anymore, i just use android. What i hear with the Ares II is absoluty clean. I use theittle Tempotec V1 as server, you can put 2 sd-cards in it to hold many, many cd's in flac. So then there's no 'bad signal' whatsoever. That cost me €700+70. Compare that to the Cyrus.

And i haven't even discussed high-res material. On an old laptop on my Teradak R2R (TE7022 input) that beat the hell out of any cd-player. And that is only 24/96. DSD is even better. My reference is my Clearaudio vinyl setup with Koetsu Urushi. With the Ares +Tempotec i really don't care anymore what is better since it's so close and so incredibly good. Ok, maybe DSD is a bit better now. But that has to do with mastering too.

Anyway, the service life, operation, etc., are always problems for CDP and CDT.
By contrast, I could not agree more with you that such digital equipments as PC or Android have clear advantages in all these areas.
Thanks again for your kindly explanations and advices.
I will take them seriously into account.
Maybe I need some chances of practical listening.

 

[]eep]

i just read this in the Ares thread, this might be helpful.

I was catching up with this thread, and saw this -- @Halam we have a similar setup that my source comes from an MSI laptop, and the USB implementation on these laptops are really good, coupled with the USB setup on the ARES 2, there is no noise, so really the USB on its own is definitely good enough. Use of a DDC at this point is optional, and YMMV on whether or not the DDC makes your chain better or worse. In my case, I use an EITR and to me, enhances it further via the coax. Maybe overkill, but I had it already prior to getting the Ares 2, so why not use it...but not necessary, the USB is great on its own merits in this case.

I also never had trouble with noise from my pc, but i always use proper high end power supplies and motherboards (i build my own).
And again, discrete R2R is in a different ballpark. Last weekend i had another experience with this where my friend showed his new speakers. Speakers were fine but the system lacked space. Where he has a very nice es9038q2m dac.

 

[Cao Mengde]

i just read this in the Ares thread, this might be helpful.



I also never had trouble with noise from my pc, but i always use proper high end power supplies and motherboards (i build my own).
And again, discrete R2R is in a different ballpark. Last weekend i had another experience with this where my friend showed his new speakers. Speakers were fine but the system lacked space. Where he has a very nice es9038q2m dac.

Thanks.
Regarding to the noise of PC, maybe my expression makes you confused about this item. I am not saying there are some heard noise. What I mean is that the quality of PC signal is very poor compared with the specialized equipments, since PC is not developed particularly for Hi-Fi after all. Besides, I believe that the jitter level of PC signal should be much higher than conventional Hi-Fi digital source, even an external sound card. That is why I want to upgrade my musical source.

 

[]eep]

no, its not. The quality of the pc signal is much higher than any cd-player. Also, the pc can give you optical, coax or plain usb with incredible data rates. What might interfere is hf noise (ie non-digital noise). If you use software to upsample your 16/44 data to high-res 24/96, 32/384 or even DSD whatever the dac will take, your dac will have a much easier task filtering (vs redbook brickwall filtering) and take your analog output to a much higher level.

I think you need to let go of the notion that expensive audio equipment is somehow more qualified than a computer to handle digital signals. What do you think most musicians and producers use nowadays? Just keep reading up. Trust me, put your money in the dac. Rip your cd's to HD and stick to Foobar and high-res streaming.

 

[Cao Mengde]

no, its not. The quality of the pc signal is much higher than any cd-player. Also, the pc can give you optical, coax or plain usb with incredible data rates. What might interfere is hf noise (ie non-digital noise). If you use software to upsample your 16/44 data to high-res 24/96, 32/384 or even DSD whatever the dac will take, your dac will have a much easier task filtering (vs redbook brickwall filtering) and take your analog output to a much higher level.

I think you need to let go of the notion that expensive audio equipment is somehow more qualified than a computer to handle digital signals. What do you think most musicians and producers use nowadays? Just keep reading up. Trust me, put your money in the dac. Rip your cd's to HD and stick to Foobar and high-res streaming.

HaHa, Thanks.

 

[sajunky]

Adding my voice to what @jeep wrote already. Forget about CD transports. Use PC or network streamer, play from a hard drive and have a full backup of your music library.

I also agree, you need a change to a modern R2R DAC for a natural sound. Ares II is a good one, Audio GD R1 is also recommended, R7 has an incredible value as a TOTL. If with a new DAC ground loops are still a matter of concern in your system, verify it with portable (battery powered) source device or consider a dedicated digital source devices like Audio GD DI-20 to provide isolation.

Listening now to Charlie Haden & John Taylor - Nightfall (Naim) on the Audio GD R2R11 DAC/HPA combo and Sennheiser HD600.

 

[Cao Mengde]

Adding my voice to what @jeep wrote already. Forget about CD transports. Use PC or network streamer, play from a hard drive and have a full backup of your music library.

I also agree, you need a change to a modern R2R DAC for a natural sound. Ares II is a good one, Audio GD R1 is also recommended, R7 has an incredible value as a TOTL. If with a new DAC ground loops are still a matter of concern in your system, verify it with portable (battery powered) source device or consider a dedicated digital source devices like Audio GD DI-20 to provide isolation.

Listening now to Charlie Haden & John Taylor - Nightfall (Naim) on the Audio GD R2R11 DAC/HPA combo and Sennheiser HD600.

Many thanks for your suggestions.