[dontfeedphils]

Exactly my experience. I cannot stress how enjoyable it is listening at a low level with a solid digital source. It's a preference as well as hearing health is a thing. The black deep abyss background is something I noticed right away with the Hugo2 when I experimented last summer.

The PRaT. Oh, boy. I didn't realise that was a thing with a optimal digital source. I knew there was some magical synergy when I experimented, but didn't realise PRaT is likely the main factor. I mean, you change sources; PRaT is not something you expect. For me now it's everything, it's the difference between the adrenaline rush to want to listen versus forcing oneself to listen. It's just such a enjoyable musical experience. Before the Hugo2 just did not resonate, so it collects dust. Sure, it sounded fine; but it didn't bring out the emotions. Once I changed to an optimal digital source, I listen and anticipate listening everyday. Before I go months or even only a handful of time listening a year. Now, the heart starts beating and the hair stands up on the arms when I listen almost everday, I'm "connected".

I only realised this was PRaT a few weeks ago. I wanted to repeat last summer's Hugo2 experiment, so I bought a new Mojo hours before the promotional price ended. I tried a similar RPi, RPi HAT optical; but nothing. It was fine the first few nights and then it just plateued. Interest again waned and just had no passion to want to listen to the Mojo. Ok, time to bring out the big guns with my goto H2 RPi optical source w/ Lifatec glass optical. Bam, the music slows a bit and is just so controlled. There's no going back. Poly and 2Go will likely not replicate this experience.

I can see how 98% of the optical sources out there have the rhythm of listening to a television optical out. I get that, but find the right optical source; it's amazing. No Chinese spyware to install either.

I think we have similar experiences because we use the same family of optical decoder. I'm running WM8804 while Allo runs WM8805. That's the heart of the magical synergy. It's just a matter of the assemblers to implement well. Bypassing USB is the greatest thing ever as the interface is completely i2S to the decoder.

https://statics.cirrus.com/pubs/proBulletin/WM8804_WM8805_ProductFlyer.pdf

I didn't realize there was an acronym for it for a while, and just thought of it as "toe-tapability". That phrase undersells the importance of it though.

I know this is all a bit OT, but still in the realm of quality digital sources leading to better SQ, across the board, so I imagine that would hold true for Hugo2Go. I've also read a lot of reports of SQ increases in the same terms, but from people with wildly different gear. Everything from a Modi to a TT2, coming back with fairly similar experiences.

 

[474194]

I didn't realize there was an acronym for it for a while, and just thought of it as "toe-tapability". That phrase undersells the importance of it though.

I know this is all a bit OT, but still in the realm of quality digital sources leading to better SQ, across the board, so I imagine that would hold true for Hugo2Go. I've also read a lot of reports of SQ increases in the same terms, but from people with wildly different gear. Everything from a Modi to a TT2, coming back with fairly similar experiences.

The light bulb went on when I switched optical sources a few weeks back. Once I switch in a matter of minutes, it immediatiely hit me. I was thinking Pacing, rhythm, control and timing. Not PRaT, but once your stated PRaT I was surprised someone else had a similar experience and confirmed my conclusions. Now I can put into words what I'm experiencing and why enjoyed this source so much with the Hugo2 last summer. I'm using it exclusively with Mojo now and it is addicting. I'll get a duplicate source setup soon since it's such a good value. At this pace, I'll wear out the Mojo well before the Hugo2 battery goes capult as I can't stop listening. It's connecting and resonating. My jaw just dropped after the switch. Not out of awe, but just sheer emotional enjoyment.

Once the Mojo and Hugo2 battery withers away in a few years and I need to make it a desktop dac, I plan to use a Supercapacitor Power supply to power Mojo/Hugo2 and my source. As I'm battery, no mains, only. I plan to run a Poweradd Pilot Pro 2 or similar to power a Ciunas Supercapacitor power supply.

Supercapacitor Power Supply tour

https://www.ciunas.biz/product-page/copy-of-supercapacitor-power-supply-dual-voltage-outputs

Wish I could try this now, but warranty not over and no energy left for this hobby.

I have little faith in Chord besides RW. Everybody's riding on the backbone of Rob's Dacs; not their own innovations. The networking code is even screwed up in the Poly when I skimmed through the Poly thread. I rather use open source well tested systems, networking and audio software. Not proprietary BS. I want easily replaceable mix and match, re-purposeful components, not something that will end as book-holders in a few years.

 

[musickid]

Since using an ipod touch on battery power connected to a 20,000mAh powerbank streaming as a roon endpoint into my mscaler the sound is crystal clear. A battery powered source is the best sounding for me having listened to many alternatives. The roon core imac is ethernet wired in and is a quad core i5, 8gb ram, 512gb ssd, with a 27 inch 2560 by 1440 display for roon UI. Roon remote is installed on the ipod touch. 30+ hours on wifi streaming at least between powerbank charges makes this set up play and forget and rather special IMHO.

 

[474194]

Since using an ipod touch on battery power connected to a 20,000mAh powerbank streaming as a roon endpoint into my mscaler the sound is crystal clear. A battery powered source is the best sounding for me having listened to many alternatives. The roon core imac is ethernet wired in and is a quad core i5, 8gb ram, 512gb ssd, with a 27 inch 2560 by 1440 display for roon UI. Roon remote is installed on the ipod touch.

First, cheers for asking Rob Watts all the tuff questions. Learned a lot from your interactions.

I like the clear separation of Roon Core and Roon Endpoint. That's a step in the right direction.

In the long run tho, you will need to address the elephant in the room. Mainly the CCK adapter maybe a bottleneck to your summit-fi experience. It also could potentially pickup RFI even though your on battery power. There maybe some funky USB lighting to USB conversion going on. It's very rare to see CCK used in HiFi Forums. It's a convenient and crafty solution, but it the long run you may need to re-evaluate. But if you enjoy it that's all that matters.

If you happen to be in the Cambridge area, you can pick up a RPi for 25 quid or so:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/raspberry-pi-store/

1 month return policy if it doesn't work out. You can install RPi Roon endpoint software in less than 5 minutes and just use USB out to test. If you see it has potential, you can decide on a HiFi HAT add-on later on. You can run the RPi off your powerbank.

Don't flame me, just a suggestion. I would have a lot less Chord knowledge without your questions so just addressing the elephant in the room.

 

[musickid]

thanks AC great to be acknowledged. can you think of a CCK alternative that would allow me to play the ipod touch and charge it too? i know quite a few people have recommended the CCK3 when using hugo2 or mojo direct with iphones/ipads. i did however try usb out of the imac direct and the touch won hands down. there are direct lightning to usb cables made by third party suppliers but i would not be able to charge the touch while playing hence ruining the whole set up. at the moment i'm willing to take a slight hit off the CCK for the convenience. then again everyone recommends the CCK3 being the most reliable standard adaptor for ios devices? umm.... here's an example.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/iConnectivity-iCC2L-Lightning-Inline-Connection/dp/B00NV6JIC6

 

[Whazzzup]

I didn't notice any difference when I bought cck3 when my cck2 crapped out

 

[flyte3333]

Hi @Matt Bartlett

Did you/@ChordElectronics look into Chromecast Built-in support for 2Go?

Is it still possible with the current hardware, via a future firmware update? Is it i Chord's plans?

Or the current 2Go hardware cannot support Chromecast Built-in?

Cheers

 

[Doody]

FYI/FWIW, I've been told that 2go units will hit dealers in the US "next week". Moon Audio shows it shipping March 12th now. One might assume that's a real date, given their cock-up on 2.29. Sounds like we might have toys to play with mid-month-ish.

Doody

 

[Widell]

Hi @Matt Bartlett

Did you/@ChordElectronics look into Chromecast Built-in support for 2Go?

Is it still possible with the current hardware, via a future firmware update? Is it i Chord's plans?

Or the current 2Go hardware cannot support Chromecast Built-in?

Cheers

How about "Bluesound", anyway that @GO would potentially work with this, agree not as good as Roon but its playing catch up and not to bad, would be a cost-saver for me...and would pay for the 2GO by itself if it did to not have to walk down the Roon path..as I already have NAD stuff and bluesound??

 

[Widell]

How about "Bluesound", anyway that @GO would potentially work with this, agree not as good as Roon but its playing catch up and not to bad, would be a cost-saver for me...and would pay for the 2GO by itself if it did to not have to walk down the Roon path..as I already have NAD stuff and bluesound??

Further to above, to clarify...if I could continue with bluesound software and not invest in a Roon Rock (EUR 1,500) and lifetime subscription which is usd 699...)...hence if it could work with BlueSound (which is not half bad... ) then it would pay for the 2GO by itself by pure logic (please read as MY logic...) comments and feedback please....

 

[474194]

thanks AC great to be acknowledged. can you think of a CCK alternative that would allow me to play the ipod touch and charge it too? i know quite a few people have recommended the CCK3 when using hugo2 or mojo direct with iphones/ipads. i did however try usb out of the imac direct and the touch won hands down. there are direct lightning to usb cables made by third party suppliers but i would not be able to charge the touch while playing hence ruining the whole set up. at the moment i'm willing to take a slight hit off the CCK for the convenience. then again everyone recommends the CCK3 being the most reliable standard adaptor for ios devices? umm.... here's an example.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/iConnectivity-iCC2L-Lightning-Inline-Connection/dp/B00NV6JIC6

It's good to stay pragmatic in this hobby. We are all at different stages in this hobby. You are way ahead of the curve, so don't feel pressure to get a $3K - $10K music source because you are in Summit-Fi now. TT2 + mScaler is a great accomplishment, you shouldn't be peer-pressured also to have to consider a high-end music source as well after you accomplished your goal.

To me the high-end music sources are just optimised powerful PCs forced to use mains power. It's great if you need software upsampling power or Roon Core, but the much cheaper alternatives can be just as competitive especially if you have the flexibility to go battery-power and optical for Chord DACs. Once you unbox the high-end music source, it quickly becomes obsolete over time. Your clear separation of Roon Core and Roon endpoint allows you to focus on a cleaner battery-power low CPU req source and let your powerful iMac run Roon Core.

The high-end music sources use the same software backend as the simple RPis. You really don't need much PC power to process as the RPis have already shown using very low power at the same time. For example, I was considering a 2 TB Sandisk Extreme NVME SSD for my RPi versus microSD. Since the throughput for even large file hires is < 10MB/s, do I really need 550MB/s of throughput? It's similar for powerful PCs, does one really need all that power to process music cleanly? In the RPi world, no since software is optimised.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Ex...rds=sandisk+extreme+2tb&qid=1583625361&sr=8-3

Anyways, I know the RPi can be intimidating. I'll try to finish my guide so you can see how simple it can be.

For now, if you really want to stay in the Apple lightning ecosystem; you may want to consider a HDMI extractor. Basically you need a Lighting to AV adapter versus the Lighting to USB:

Apple AV

HDMI specs seem HQ as it can extract DD, DD+, etc. You should still be able to power at the same time with your powerbank. The HDMI will go into a HDMI to optical convertor. It should be somewhat clean as it seems like it's mainly a digital to digital conversion. I don't think there is any analog to digital conversion in the chain.

https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=hdmi extractor&sitesearch=true

The car audio guys have been using this before the Mojo existed. Car head units like DAPs have been stagnant for over a decade so they use iPads as their head unit to extract a optical signal via HDMI this way. If you get the 5V version, you should be able to power with a powerbank.

Don't go down the third-party lightning (fake cck w/ ethernet, silver usb cables, etc.) rabbit hole. This HDMI extraction should be as deep down the rabbit hole you go before you re-evaluate going RPi. Reminder, the RPi solution is a similar price as going the HDMI extraction route. Also, not all optical outputs are created equal.

For icing on the cake, maybe consider a ferrite on both ends of the lightning adapter and wrap it in faraday tape. Something like this product:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fabric-EMI...?keywords=faraday+tape&qid=1583626827&sr=8-14

If another lighting alternative solutions pops up, I'll post...

 

[jarnopp]

It's good to stay pragmatic in this hobby. We are all at different stages in this hobby. You are way ahead of the curve, so don't feel pressure to get a $3K - $10K music source because you are in Summit-Fi now. TT2 + mScaler is a great accomplishment, you shouldn't be peer-pressured also to have consider a high-end music source as well after you accomplished your goal.

To me the high-end music sources are just optimised powerful PCs forced to use mains power. It's great if you need software upsampling power or Roon Core, but the much cheaper alternatives can be just as competitive especially if you have the flexibility to go battery-power and optical for Chord DACs. Once you unbox the high-end music source, it quickly becomes obsolete over time. Your clear separation of Roon Core and Roon endpoint allows you to focus on a cleaner battery-power low CPU req source and let your powerful iMac run Roon Core.

The high-end music sources use the same software backend as the simple RPis. You really don't need much PC power to process as the RPis have already shown using very low power at the same time. For example, I was considering a 2 TB Sandisk Extreme NVME SSD for my RPi versus microSD. Since the throughput for even large file hires is < 10MB/s, do I really need 550MB/s of throughput? It's similar for powerful PCs, does one really need all that power to process music cleanly? In the RPi world, no since software is optimised.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Ex...rds=sandisk+extreme+2tb&qid=1583625361&sr=8-3



Anyways, I know the RPi can be intimidating. I'll try to finish my guide so you can see how simple it can be.

For now, if you really want to stay in the Apple lightning ecosystem; you may want to consider a HDMI extractor. Basically you need a Lighting to AV adapter versus the Lighting to USB:

Apple AV

You should still be able to power at the same time with your powerbank. The HDMI will go into a HDMI to optical convertor. It should be somewhat clean as it seems like it's mainly a digital to digital conversion. I don't think there is any analog to digital conversion in the chain.

https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=hdmi extractor&sitesearch=true

The car audio guys have been using this before the Mojo existed. Car head units like DAPs have been stagnant for over a decade so they use iPads as their head unit and extract a optical signal via HDMI this way.

Don't go down the third-party lightning rabbit hole. This HDMI extraction should be as deep down the rabbit hole you go before you re-evaluate going RPi. Reminder, the RPi solution is a similar price as the going the HDMI extraction route. Also, not all optical outputs are created equal.

For icing on the cake, maybe consider a ferrite on both ends of the lightning adapter and wrap it in faraday tape. Something like this product:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fabric-EMI...?keywords=faraday+tape&qid=1583626827&sr=8-14



If another lighting alternative solutions pops up, I'll post...

This is pragmatic? Put on my RFI shield jumpsuit before I start to listen to music?

 

[474194]

This is pragmatic? Put on my RFI shield jumpsuit before I start to listen to music?

I was referring to the lighting cable. Obviously the photo gives a wrong impression, but WiFi would be needed so wasn't inferring to cover up the iPod. Since MK is running iPod, not iPhone am not too concerned about the iDevice.

Edit: Oh, I missed. I thought you were referring to a jumpsuit (case or something) for iPod, not people. Forgive, I was writing post and not paying too much attention. I think that will be the next hot trend. When I direct my next music rap video, RFI jumpsuits will be a given. RIP Nipsey, cannot include you in music video, maybe CGI Nipsey. Seriously tho for Chord products, I think we are not far off this RFI reality. I can see uses for each photo example.

 

[474194]

Maybe HDMI extractor is not such a good idea. Didn't consider the HDMI jitter side of things:

bit perfect HDMI

I cut and pasted part of my draft guide MK if you want to see how simple writing the RPi software image is to the microSD card. I lost some images and formatting during the website upgrade, but you should get the gist. Too lazy to fix now. You can skip to STEP#02.

Of course, enjoy your current setup but just keep this as an option when your ready to step to the dark side.

Possible RPi software solutions, there are audiophile-grade RPi OS'es and general-use RPi OS'es:

Seems like the most straightforward way to create an Roon endpoint is with Ropieee. I believe it's recommended by Roon on their official website. I have never used, but you should be able to download and then just write the image:

https://ropieee.org/software/

I prefer other software, but don't have Roon to experiment with their 'enable Squeezebox support' option within Roon Core. Remember, the Roon software on your iPod is just a software agent streaming from Roon Core. The same software agent will run as a service in RPi Linux without IOS restrictions/sandbox, possible unnecessary upsampling and CCK bottleneck.

Spoiler: For advanced users and FYI. SKIP STEP

The old way to write an image to an microSD card was more risky as it could wipe out whatever drive you pointed at utilizing the command line with 'dd'. Do NOT attempt unless you are familiar with the 'dd' tool. Just an example of imaging as your writing an pre-built OS to your microSD card bit-by-bit bit-perfect. Use the Etcher software which performs a similar function in the next step to play if safe.

Spoiler: Install Balena Etcher for Advanced Users. [STEP#02]

Now there are tools such a Balena Etcher to make things simple. It's quite quick too. If your running HomeBrew, run 'brew cask install balenaetcher'.



With HomeBrew, it's easy to upgrade as needed:

Spoiler: Install Balena Etcher. [STEP#02]

Now there are tools such a Balena Etcher to make things simple. It's quite quick too. Download here:

https://www.balena.io/etcher/

Install as normal for your respective operating system.

Spoiler: Launch Balena Etcher. [STEP#03]

Once installed, launch the Etcher program.



Simple Main Menu:



Select your image file:



Plug in your microSD card if you have not already done so. Select target to your microSD card (Note: I'm using an Sandisk USB->microSD adapter [SanDisk MobileMate USB 3.0 microSD Card Reader]):



Flash!:



You may need to enter a password (Admin or account associated with Admin priviledges).

That's it. You overcame the big hurdle. Just one more more small hurdle to login to WiFi and identify your IP address.

Etcher copied bit-by-bit to the microSD card. The Operating System on the microSD card now contains three partitions:




0: is the overall size of the microSD card (I'm swapping between 32GB and 128GB to test)
1: The boot disk partition (PCP_BOOT).
2: A small Linux partition to install apps. Later on we will resize to 300MB so we can install LMS.

Later on we can create another partition to fully utilise the rest to the microSD card in the advanced section if you desire to have music files on your microSD boot disk for additional capacity. Again, it's not recommended by the developer; but it works fine and others have verified.

Again, you can just start off with a RPi via USB for as long as you are comfortable with...

Later on you can decide your S/PDIF Digi HAT:

https://ropieee.org/audio_hardware/

 

[flyte3333]

How about "Bluesound", anyway that @GO would potentially work with this, agree not as good as Roon but its playing catch up and not to bad, would be a cost-saver for me...and would pay for the 2GO by itself if it did to not have to walk down the Roon path..as I already have NAD stuff and bluesound??

My question to @Matt Bartlett is about Chromecast Built-in support.

Bluesound gear doesn't feature Chromecast Built-in, so isn't applicable in this case...