[TheAttorney]

Your comments are very opportune because I have this morning been looking inside a Innuos Zenith and comparing it to the Statement which has what I now realise from your post to be 3M RFI EMI absorbing sheets stuck over its sensitive components including the SSD, RAM etc etc.

As part of my NUC inner-lining exercise. I did cover the RAM and one or two other components with this 3M stuff. I didn't hear much difference. Which doesn't mean there wasn't any - just that it was too subtle for me at that point in time. If you have easier access to your server than I had to mine, you will have better chance of A/Bing.

Some other practical things about the 3M sheet:

*It is totally electrically non-conductive on all sides (I checked with a multi-meter). So safe to stick on anything from that point of view. But it will probably make hot items hotter.
*One side is mildly sticky - if you peel back the protective backing.
*In deepest rabbit-hole territory, I did sometime think the protective backing didn't help SQ, depending on which way up - crazy I know. There's no end to this madness!
*The sticky side looks harmless in terms of leaving a residue, but just in case, I stuck 2 sheets together when they were placed on the outside surface of any expensive enclosure.
*On the digikey uk site, for HF only (not SHF), there was a sheet size that was fractionally smaller than A4, but with a proportionally significantly lower price. I don't know why, but when I compared the two, they both looked identical apart from the tiniest difference in size. Things may have changed since a year ago when I last looked.

 

[jlbrach]

I suppose you could try something like this:

EMI/RFI Absorbers - 3M™ | DigiKey

But I have no idea about the efficacy. Presumably, like ferrites, these sheets "add up" if you layer them. Wrapping M Scaler tightly in this stuff might make it get too hot, but mine has always ran far cooler than DAVE, even on the hottest days of summer, so I doubt heat will be a problem. Rob uses his tucked into a bag when he's on a flight...

Honestly, I think your solution is simpler: place the M Scaler on the floor as far away as possible from the rest of your hi-fi. Maybe not next to the switched mode power supply module which is probably on the floor... Sure, it reduces the "perceived value effect" of your hi-fi, but if you find the sound quality uplift is important to you then why compromise?

If nothing else, if you decide to try RF absorber sheets, then a comparison against HMS placed on the floor will help you to decide whether the sheets are working. Putting it on the floor even temporarily will certainly help you to determine whether you should even bother with this tweak.

so I am a bit confused, I own the blu2 with my dave and when they were sold together so were the stands that kept them one on top of the other with a few inches of breathing room?

 

[TheAttorney]

Do you think this, wrapped around the MScaler, might work? Could wrap the DAVE too, though mine gets hot.

I don't know it it will work or not, but the key thing is that it is a shield, whereas the 3M sheet is an absorber.
So in the general sense, only the 3M will be of use inside any component. The shield will reflect and therefore make matters worse.

WRT to outside DAVE, it depends if some of the RFI is already inside DAVE, or already inside the cables/connectors, in which case a shield won't help at all, but it will probably help if the RFI is primarily from outside in the air. I really don't know, so someone needs to try to be sure. I've given up trying to use science to predict an outcome in high end audio .

 

[TheAttorney]

so I am a bit confused, I own the blu2 with my dave and when they were sold together so were the stands that kept them one on top of the other with a few inches of breathing room?

Don't worry about it. Just some mad audiophiles getting the last bit of performance out of their hifi.
Most designers believe their products are already sufficiently immune to this and that. And some audiophiles beg to differ. It's always been like that

 

[Uncle Monty]

Ted, I'm going mad.

 

[lovethatsound]

Really , do you run one in your chain

Yes I do,one of the best upgrades I've ever made,you can hear the difference straight away it's magical.

 

[Dipesh]

Yes I do,one of the best upgrades I've ever made,you can hear the difference straight away it's magical.

Umm ok

 

[griff500]

I've been testing 3M's AB-5100HF and SHF EMI/RFI absorbing sheets. There is some science behind this product as 3M is not a hifi company.
It's available in different sizes, but I've used the 1mm-thick A4 sheets. Quite pricey at around £40-50 per sheet.
The SHF variant has slightly better overall performance, especially below 1Ghz, but the HF does better above 2Ghz and is slightly cheaper.
In the tests below, I didn't notice any difference between HF and SHF, so would just go for the cheaper one, but probably best (and double the price) is to join the two together.

Hoer-Wege offer a power supply upgrade and it includes this stuff to put over the PSU and also over the other board in my Auralic Aries G2.

 

[sm60]

I am surprised at this comment. For those who do use digital files rather than CDs - a journey I have been on for the last decade - Roon is at the forefront of server software in what it can do. It delivers an amazingly clean data stream as source. Yes, it is possible to select options for digital processing and upscaling, but if you leave those off, as most of us Chord users would certainly choose, the core service is extremely good. Plus all the richness of the information media on performers, files, content, composers etc.

Don’t get me wrong. I love the convenience of Roon and have a lifetime membership. It certainly beats what music listening used to be 35 years ago as a grad student, when I used to go to Princeton Record Exchange to buy used vinyl for my weekly playlist. Now, I sit in the comfort of my sofa and with a swish of my iPad, I can select among millions of tracks. How can you argue with that not being progress?

But from the standpoint of pure sonic pleasure, things are a bit less straightforward, ignoring convenience. Over the past 30 odd years, I have owned a dazzling variety of Hi-Fi, from budget stuff to exorbitantly priced stuff. Along this long journey, I have had to swallow my quantitative engineering pride and admit there’s more to high end audio than what simple frequency response and Fourier analysis gets you. The ear is an astonishingly perceptive instrument. At the maximally sensitive portion of our hearing, consider that the diaphragm of your ear moves less than the width of a hydrogen atom! You wonder how the brain could possibly decode a signal from such a small movement, but shockingly it does.

My purely subjective personal ranking of front end source components from several decades of listening is as follows, in decreasing order of quality:

1. Vinyl records on a top flight turntable and arm with a high end phono preamplifier.
2. Top notch CD transport into a top notch DAC with a separate master clock.
3. SACD transport into a high end DAC with both clocked externally.
4. Music server running on a PC playing through USB into a DAC (high Rez or red book).

So, Roon wins on convenience for sure, but at least for me, not in the sense of absolute best-money-can-buy Sonics. I’ll add the caveat that so far I have yet to invest in a high end server like the Innous statement or an Aurender W20. My Roon runs on a simple budget Intel NUC, feeding to the M-scaler on my Blu2 through USB. Regardless of what I play on Roon, on the best recorded Redbook jazz or classical, it cannot compete with my CEC TL0 belt drive CD transport. That’s my subjective assessment over many months and years of listening. That’s why I haven’t gotten rid of my CDs, even though they occupy a lot of space in my house.

 

[Triode User]

Don’t get me wrong. I love the convenience of Roon and have a lifetime membership. It certainly beats what music listening used to be 35 years ago as a grad student, when I used to go to Princeton Record Exchange to buy used vinyl for my weekly playlist. Now, I sit in the comfort of my sofa and with a swish of my iPad, I can select among millions of tracks. How can you argue with that not being progress?

But from the standpoint of pure sonic pleasure, things are a bit less straightforward, ignoring convenience. Over the past 30 odd years, I have owned a dazzling variety of Hi-Fi, from budget stuff to exorbitantly priced stuff. Along this long journey, I have had to swallow my quantitative engineering pride and admit there’s more to high end audio than what simple frequency response and Fourier analysis gets you. The ear is an astonishingly perceptive instrument. At the maximally sensitive portion of our hearing, consider that the diaphragm of your ear moves less than the width of a hydrogen atom! You wonder how the brain could possibly decode a signal from such a small movement, but shockingly it does.

My purely subjective personal ranking of front end source components from several decades of listening is as follows, in decreasing order of quality:

1. Vinyl records on a top flight turntable and arm with a high end phono preamplifier.
2. Top notch CD transport into a top notch DAC with a separate master clock.
3. SACD transport into a high end DAC with both clocked externally.
4. Music server running on a PC playing through USB into a DAC (high Rez or red book).

So, Roon wins on convenience for sure, but at least for me, not in the sense of absolute best-money-can-buy Sonics. I’ll add the caveat that so far I have yet to invest in a high end server like the Innous statement or an Aurender W20. My Roon runs on a simple budget Intel NUC, feeding to the M-scaler on my Blu2 through USB. Regardless of what I play on Roon, on the best recorded Redbook jazz or classical, it cannot compete with my CEC TL0 belt drive CD transport. That’s my subjective assessment over many months and years of listening. That’s why I haven’t gotten rid of my CDs, even though they occupy a lot of space in my house.

Unfortunately for me Roon is a cause for joy and and sadness all at the same time. Its interface and ease of use is wonderful but its incessant chattering back to the mothership (and the way that it transfers files) causes me great sadness due to the degraded sound quality when using Roon. Even having Roon on a separate server isolated from the player does not solve it.

Discussions on this pop up here and there and if you are interested this just one recent post on audiophilestyle describing the issue.

Perhaps try other methods of playing your ripped files to the Blu2. You might be surprised at the improvement and it might make you revise the running order in your table of preferred system options.

 

[Jawed]

Do you think this, wrapped around the MScaler, might work? Could wrap the DAVE too, though mine gets hot.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0895LTG3V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Honestly, I have no idea whether it's worthwhile. The price is in the "why not try" category.

Before you even try any of these things, first move the M Scaler far away. If that makes no difference for you then you can forget about these other tweaks.

so I am a bit confused, I own the blu2 with my dave and when they were sold together so were the stands that kept them one on top of the other with a few inches of breathing room?

When I listened to a Blu 2 with DAVE stack using the Chord stand (i.e. placed closed together), I thought Blu 2 + DAVE sounded worse than DAVE alone. But then, this was with simple BNC cables. So I can't say which was the primary contributor to spoiling the sound: spacing or cabling.

I was under the impression the stand is solely for looks, not performance. I use 3x IsoAcoustics Orea under DAVE.

As far as I can tell, no one on this thread so far has tried the Tungsten Grooves feet:

Tungsten Grooves W70-H47 | Trade in Available | Nintronics.co.uk - Nintronics

The concept is spectacular. So is the price... They seem to work:

 

[Malcyg]

Unfortunately for me Roon is a cause for joy and and sadness all at the same time. Its interface and ease of use is wonderful but its incessant chattering back to the mothership (and the way that it transfers files) causes me great sadness due to the degraded sound quality when using Roon.

This is an interesting comment Nick. What is this ‘chattering’ that you refer to and how does it manifest itself in ways that you can apparently hear quite clearly? What other sources have you used that sound significantly better enough for you to have observed this? I am asking because there was a time when I would have agreed with you, but I now find that with the Statement using the Squeezebox option, Roon sounds very good in my setup. I suspect that you may be referring to noise coming from the processor and internal electrics of the Statement, but am interested in exactly what and how.

My own mild obsession with reducing the ‘noise’ in my system began 6-7 years ago with the purchase of a Melco N1-A and largely ended (clearly, there is room for manoeuvre here!) a couple of years back with the purchase of the Statement. There is also a lot of ‘stuff’ in between of course, as I gradually discovered that ’noise’ was actually quite a complicated subject which took many different forms, but I did finally reach a point where I could no longer hear any adverse elements in my music system and the digital plague that had troubled my ears for so many years was finally eliminated and I do not detect that Roon is holding me back

I moved house a couple of years ago and the house was built around 16 years ago with an electrical and Ethernet installation undertaken by a professional installer of whole house systems. The degree of improvement in my system that I experienced due to the quality of this electrical installation was quite astonishing and unexpected. I already knew from experience that there could be significant differences in peoples preferences, their ears, their equipment, synergies, their installation, cables, isolation, power supplies, servers and so on but a well designed professional electrical installation now seemed to have as big an effect, if not substantially more so, than anything I had heard to date. So my own experience of refining down in ever decreasing circles has led me to believe that there can be so many reasons why people hear what they hear or, alternatively, don’t hear things that others hear and it is generally too simplistic to blame any one single item.

People that hear my system are always completely blown away. I have recently received messages and photo’s from 3 friends who were so impressed and inspired after listening to mine that they went away determined to build their own system and have proudly sent me photo’s of how they are getting on. They all commented that the music sounded so real and brought back all of the fun and enjoyment that got them into music in the first place years ago. That’s what it’s all about after all isn’t it? I really dislike having to test stuff out as I find it to be very fatiguing, so I actually feel very happy that I haven’t had to tinker with my main system at all for over a couple of years now. The only thing that might tempt me back is Dave II.

Correction - I have actually undertaken a fair degree of headphone system tinkering, but that’s a different thing entirely.

 

[Triode User]

This is an interesting comment Nick. What is this ‘chattering’ that you refer to and how does it manifest itself in ways that you can apparently hear quite clearly? What other sources have you used that sound significantly better enough for you to have observed this? I am asking because there was a time when I would have agreed with you, but I now find that with the Statement using the Squeezebox option, Roon sounds very good in my setup. I suspect that you may be referring to noise coming from the processor and internal electrics of the Statement, but am interested in exactly what and how.

My own mild obsession with reducing the ‘noise’ in my system began 6-7 years ago with the purchase of a Melco N1-A and largely ended (clearly, there is room for manoeuvre here!) a couple of years back with the purchase of the Statement. There is also a lot of ‘stuff’ in between of course, as I gradually discovered that ’noise’ was actually quite a complicated subject which took many different forms, but I did finally reach a point where I could no longer hear any adverse elements in my music system and the digital plague that had troubled my ears for so many years was finally eliminated and I do not detect that Roon is holding me back

I moved house a couple of years ago and the house was built around 16 years ago with an electrical and Ethernet installation undertaken by a professional installer of whole house systems. The degree of improvement in my system that I experienced due to the quality of this electrical installation was quite astonishing and unexpected. I already knew from experience that there could be significant differences in peoples preferences, their ears, their equipment, synergies, their installation, cables, isolation, power supplies, servers and so on but a well designed professional electrical installation now seemed to have as big an effect, if not substantially more so, than anything I had heard to date. So my own experience of refining down in ever decreasing circles has led me to believe that there can be so many reasons why people hear what they hear or, alternatively, don’t hear things that others hear and it is generally too simplistic to blame any one single item.

People that hear my system are always completely blown away. I have recently received messages and photo’s from 3 friends who were so impressed and inspired after listening to mine that they went away determined to build their own system and have proudly sent me photo’s of how they are getting on. They all commented that the music sounded so real and brought back all of the fun and enjoyment that got them into music in the first place years ago. That’s what it’s all about after all isn’t it? I really dislike having to test stuff out as I find it to be very fatiguing, so I actually feel very happy that I haven’t had to tinker with my main system at all for over a couple of years now. The only thing that might tempt me back is Dave II.

Correction - I have actually undertaken a fair degree of headphone system tinkering, but that’s a different thing entirely.

Hi Malc, Have you tried the Statement with iPeng as a comparison with Roon? For me that provided a stark illustration of what Roon was doing to the playback.

Innuos are well aware of the effects of Roon on sound quality. Not all of this is the chattering I mentioned but also because Roon defeats the ability of the Statement to fully load the whole track to RAM and play back from RAM without further reading of the SSD mid track (when Roon is used only a small part of the track is loaded to RAM and it needs topping up all the way through the playback - this is even in 'Experimental mode'). Also there is the Roon chattering where it is communicating with Roon HQ and this communication traffic through the Statement has a knock on effect on sound quality. Then there is the further issue of how Roon handles the file playback. It would be fine if Roon was working like iPeng and just gave instructions as to which track was to be played but it appears that it doesn't. In the post on Audiophile Style that I linked to earlier, Nenon posted,

"Roon does not just serve the URL to an external program. It does a lot more than that that deteriorates the sound quality no matter where you run it or how you isolate it. Your idea to have Roon just handle the URL and shutdown any other activity is great. Unfortunately Roon has no desire to make such changes... or any changes that significantly improve the SQ. They have different priorities. Many of us have tried to convince them to do things to improve the sound quality but they have been ignorant and arrogant for the most part. That's their loss. New and much better software is coming up and replacing Roon in many high-end systems. The interface will slowly catch up over time."

I bought Roon lifetime a couple of years ago but it is relegated to the kitchen system for the moment.

 

[Malcyg]

Hi Malc, Have you tried the Statement with iPeng as a comparison with Roon? For me that provided a stark illustration of what Roon was doing to the playback.

Innuos are well aware of the effects of Roon on sound quality. Not all of this is the chattering I mentioned but also because Roon defeats the ability of the Statement to fully load the whole track to RAM and play back from RAM without further reading of the SSD mid track (when Roon is used only a small part of the track is loaded to RAM and it needs topping up all the way through the playback - this is even in 'Experimental mode'). Also there is the Roon chattering where it is communicating with Roon HQ and this communication traffic through the Statement has a knock on effect on sound quality. Then there is the further issue of how Roon handles the file playback. It would be fine if Roon was working like iPeng and just gave instructions as to which track was to be played but it appears that it doesn't. In the post on Audiophile Style that I linked to earlier, Nenon posted,

"Roon does not just serve the URL to an external program. It does a lot more than that that deteriorates the sound quality no matter where you run it or how you isolate it. Your idea to have Roon just handle the URL and shutdown any other activity is great. Unfortunately Roon has no desire to make such changes... or any changes that significantly improve the SQ. They have different priorities. Many of us have tried to convince them to do things to improve the sound quality but they have been ignorant and arrogant for the most part. That's their loss. New and much better software is coming up and replacing Roon in many high-end systems. The interface will slowly catch up over time."

I bought Roon lifetime a couple of years ago but it is relegated to the kitchen system for the moment.

Interesting Nick, thank you for the quick response. I did try that a couple of years ago and I did find it superior to Roon but not necessarily to Blu II as a source. I have always used Blu II CD as my yardstick and once I’d beaten that, I considered the job done. In the past, there has always been an observable ‘digital’ element which presented itself as a slightly hard edged brightness which I found fatiguing whereas what I have now is warm and relaxing whilst still delivering great clarity and detail. This may have been a case of ignorance is bliss for me.

 

[Lgn3]

Hi Malc, Have you tried the Statement with iPeng as a comparison with Roon? For me that provided a stark illustration of what Roon was doing to the playback.

Innuos are well aware of the effects of Roon on sound quality. Not all of this is the chattering I mentioned but also because Roon defeats the ability of the Statement to fully load the whole track to RAM and play back from RAM without further reading of the SSD mid track (when Roon is used only a small part of the track is loaded to RAM and it needs topping up all the way through the playback - this is even in 'Experimental mode'). Also there is the Roon chattering where it is communicating with Roon HQ and this communication traffic through the Statement has a knock on effect on sound quality. Then there is the further issue of how Roon handles the file playback. It would be fine if Roon was working like iPeng and just gave instructions as to which track was to be played but it appears that it doesn't. In the post on Audiophile Style that I linked to earlier, Nenon posted,

"Roon does not just serve the URL to an external program. It does a lot more than that that deteriorates the sound quality no matter where you run it or how you isolate it. Your idea to have Roon just handle the URL and shutdown any other activity is great. Unfortunately Roon has no desire to make such changes... or any changes that significantly improve the SQ. They have different priorities. Many of us have tried to convince them to do things to improve the sound quality but they have been ignorant and arrogant for the most part. That's their loss. New and much better software is coming up and replacing Roon in many high-end systems. The interface will slowly catch up over time."

I bought Roon lifetime a couple of years ago but it is relegated to the kitchen system for the moment.

Did you observe the same with the Antipodes K50 ? That Squeezelite was superior to Roon ?