[Triode User]

I found that to my considerable surprise, ATC speakers are very cable sensitive. The first pair I got sounded not good with Chord Silver Screen cables, bright enough to make my ears bleed. I was about to change the speakers for a pair of Vienna Haydn, when as a last resort I tried a borrowed pair of Rivercables. The difference was very marked and I immediately ordered two sets one for my SCM 19's in the UK and the other for the pair of SCM 40-2 I had on order for France. They not only sound good but look good and are beautifully made, using Nakamichi locking banana plugs. As a bonus they are not even too expensive. I believe they are out of production at the moment, while the company updates their range.
Wilson

I thought for a minute that you meant the XLR cables feeding active ATC speakers. I now realise that you must have passive ATC but for anyone with the active ATC I can also confirm that the cables connecting them make a considerable difference. I did a test of about 12 different XLR cables and invited a group of friends over to help me see which we preferred. In general we found that any cables with the star quad configuration sounded brighter. The group liked the quite expensive Oyaide FTVS 910 cables but I have settled on Belden 8760 cable (a screened twisted pair) as being the best I have heard so far (and even better it costs around £1.50p per m).

As a PS, you and I will have to agree to disagree about digital cables. You are right that correct transmission of the digital signal is almost impossible to corrupt but it is the unintended piggy back noise on top of the digital signal which can cause distortion in DAC analogue stages and which can be made worse by some cables or lessened by others. Hence why digital cables can differ.

 

[wilsonlaidlaw]

I tend to get all my audio analogue and digital cables other than speaker, made for me using either Swiss Gotham or German Sommer cable and Neutrik plugs, soldered with Mundorf silver/gold/tin solder. They are made by a guy who makes cables and does wiring for recording studios and the BBC and this is the same cable, solder, plugs and sockets as he uses for their interconnects. My thinking is that if what I am listening to has already passed through maybe hundreds of metres of this cable at the studio, another metre or so on my system is not going to make any difference positive or negative. They are a fraction of the price of the snake oil unobtanium cables sold by high end audio shops and I get them to exactly the length I need.

What I think does make a big difference is using XLR balanced analogue interconnects rather than standard and there is solid science behind this belief, so I use XLR whenever I can. I have only a single power cable that is anything other than bog standard and that is for my Krell Evolution 2250 class A power amp, which needs a high current cable. Even that only cost me around £80 using shielded 3mm² cable and gold plated connector Neutrik plugs for the Schuko power plug (it lives in France) and the IEC C20 appliance plug.

Wilson

 

[Triode User]

My thinking is that if what I am listening to has already passed through maybe hundreds of metres of this cable at the studio, another metre or so on my system is not going to make any difference positive or negative.

However my listening with the 12 cables I tried showed that there were quite big differences between the cables. I was using 2m length of XLR cables to my active ATC 40 Mk2 speakers. The only way is to try as many as you can.

 

[474194]

And is there such a board being covered in a 'box', so it can actually be used as a portable transport conveniently enough?

And what can you say about this stuff?

Welcome to Head-Fi. Apologies for not replying sooner. I go on cold turkey (no read, no write) hiatus from this site with no notifications since my arc is complete here minus the guide. I do own this site a guide since I'm able to buy and sell stuff here with no vig, so should pay back this site a bit in my own way.

I'm here only to check-in on the 2go status.

This rPi solution leaves me not wanting for more minus mScaler. I believe it is the highest resolution and transparency you can get in a reasonable transportable form with no RFI. As someone mentioned in the mScaler thread, it makes RBCD sound like hires so that's also my simple impression ATM with this solution. I was a hires-only fella for a decade and now back to RBCD. It's a nice shift back to RBCD thanks to Chord Dac tech (RW). This is the way.

I'm only focused on optical solutions. The Allo is coax only, so I gave up on pursuing that route.

You can look into these technologies while I write up the guide this week:

This is a 5V USB battery pack solution. Basically it is utilizing Darko's top 2 audio tech products of the decade. Squeezebox tech and Raspberry Pi. Don't have a opinion on Darko because not enough sample size, but he is exposed to a lot of audio tech.

https://darko.audio/2019/12/darko-audios-product-s-of-the-decade-2010-2019/

Antipodes and other known high-end streamer brands use Squeezebox on their software backend so you can rest assure the SQ will be there. Squeezelite is the player/renderer.

https://antipodes.audio/squeezebox/

For the frontend I use iPeng (iPhone, iPad or Apple Watch). Frontend can be any smartphone, IR remote, HDMI, etc. The backend runs independently so frontend is basically just navigation. You can launch random play, close the app and turn off your smartphone and the music will still be churning along. The wireless UI is smooth and runs like a integrated device. Hardly any lag via WIFI. Since your carrying H2 and Woo Amp, you can leave all your devices in a camera bag and wireless UI control from your smartphone plus remote for volume. Nice gear BTW.

http://penguinlovesmusic.de/ipeng-8/nggallery/slideshow

I'll try to post my thread with install guide next weekend. Both Squeezebox and iPeng have been software stable and refined for over a decade.

Overview of what you would need so you can check if these products are available in your country:

Basic Experimental Starter Items needed if you de-solder coaxial (voids warranty) on HiFiBerry HAT board (difference is 11mm screws versus 16mm):

[td]Item[/td]	[td]Description[/td]	[td]Price (USD)[/td]	[td]Link[/td]
picoreplayer	lightweight embedded rPi linux (Country of origin: USA)	FREE (Donations accepted)	http://picoreplayer.org/
HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro	Dedicated optimised optical board with galvanic isolation (Country of origin: Switzerland)	$39.90	HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro
TOSLINK optical cable	TOSLINK to TOSLINK cable (Country of origin: UK)	$0 [Included with Hugo2]
Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+	Entry-level desktop PC power in a small footprint (Country of origin: UK)	$25	Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ via Adafruit
Adafruit Pi Protector for Raspberry Pi Model A+	Case for rPI A+. Optional. (Country of origin: USA)	$7.50	rPi A+ Case via Adafruit
Brass M2.5 Standoffs for Pi HATs - Black Plated - Pack of 2 (Country of origin: USA)	11mm screws. Optional w/ case (Country of origin: USA)	$0.75	M2.5 Standoffs for Pi HATs via Adafruit
microUSB cable for power-only	USB Type-A to microUSB to power rPI via Battery Pack or AC power [Just use Hugo2 Charger to rPi should be fine to experiment] (Country of origin: UK)	$0 [Included with Hugo2]
microSD card	recommend Samsung EVO+ as it's the most optimal for rPi (Country of origin: USA)	$9.99	32GB EVO+ via BH Photo
Frontend remote Apple app	iPeng (Country of origin: Germany)	$8.99	iPeng via ITunes
--Or-- Frontend remote Android app	Orange Squeeze (Country of origin: USA). I don't use Android anymore so I have no comment on Android app or ecosystem	$4.99 (Did not include in Total)	Orange Squeeze via Google Play
Total		$92.63 (applicable taxes not included)

[/url][/tr]

I believe you are okay with a larger rPi with a standard case, so I will throw that in the guide.

This is my setup minus the Anker battery pack:

My Recommended Optimal Items needed if you de-solder coaxial (voids warranty) on HiFiBerry HAT board (difference is 11mm screws versus 16mm):

[td]Item[/td]	[td]Description[/td]	[td]Price (USD)[/td]	[td]Link[/td]
picoreplayer	lightweight embedded rPi linux (Country of origin: USA)	FREE (Donations accepted)	http://picoreplayer.org/
HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro	Dedicated optimised optical board with galvanic isolation (Country of origin: Switzerland)	$39.90	HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro
Lifatec glass TOSLINK optical cable	TOSLINK to TOSLINK cable (Country of origin: USA). Able to custom order down to 6 inches. The photo above is 12 inches.	$99	Lifatec
Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+	Entry-level desktop PC power in a small footprint (Country of origin: UK)	$25	Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ via Adafruit
Adafruit Pi Protector for Raspberry Pi Model A+	Case for rPI A+. Optional. (Country of origin: USA)	$7.50	rPi A+ Case via Adafruit
Brass M2.5 Standoffs for Pi HATs - Black Plated - Pack of 2 (Country of origin: USA)	11mm screws. Optional w/ case (Country of origin: USA)	$0.75	M2.5 Standoffs for Pi HATs via Adafruit
GhentAudio shielded microUSB cable for power-only (no USB data, just power)	USB Type-A to microUSB to power rPI via Battery Pack or AC power. (Country of origin: China)	$68. Need to custom request USB-A to microUSB Gotham	Ghent Audio Gotham DC (Custom USB) Cable
microSD card	recommend Samsung EVO+ as it's the most optimal for rPi (Country of origin: USA)	$9.99	32GB EVO+ via BH Photo
Frontend remote Apple app	iPeng (Country of origin: Germany)	$8.99	iPeng via ITunes
--Or-- Frontend remote Android app	Orange Squeeze (Country of origin: USA). I don't use Android anymore so I have no comment on Android app or ecosystem	$4.99 (Did not include in Total)	Orange Squeeze via Google Play
Total		$259.63 (applicable taxes not included)

[/url][/tr]

 

[111MilesToGo]

A question to the experts, please: Does Hugo 2 accept a 20-bit input stream, preferably on optical? In particular, I am looking at 20/44.1 input. The Chord website mentions 16 to 32 bits.

Background, although I know it’s going to call for controversies: As a Grateful Dead lover, I have quite some ”real“ HDCD discs (real meaning use of PE) plus Neil Young, Joni Mitchell etc. You know, HDCD is the famously infamous mid-1990s CD format (High Definition Compatible Digital) which encodes 20 bit resolution into the 16/44.1 CD format by embedding control codes into the least significant of the 16 bits. Such HDCD discs can be decoded by hardware or software. All standard CD players play such discs without recovering the ”true“ audio information, ending up in s.th. like 15-bit resolution plus some dither on the LSB.

For hardware, one has to find a used device capable of decoding, and additionally of outputting the decoded 20/44.1 stream digitally (optical preferred). To my knowledge, no single device is manufactured anymore due to the checkered history of Pacific Microsonics and Microsoft. This device shall operate as a transport and HDCD decoder, its DAC shall be circumvented, of course - H2 shall do the d-to-a conversion. Some Rotel CD players had the required PMD-100 chip, but they send only the original 16/44.1 data to their dig outs. A few Oppo DVD/BD players did what is needed; they show up used at a few hundreds of €/$‘s.

Regarding software, foobar2000 on Windows reads the 16/44.1 and decodes it on-the-fly, thus playing from a 24/44.1 stream. dBpoweramp does an off-line decoding. On Linux (preferred), I am suspecting HDCD decoding is about to be included in Music Player Daemon (mpd, at least the online doc for v0.22 mentions it, while the released mpd still is v0.21), based on the HDCD decoder available in ffmpeg. Remark: All software goes back to a person who reverse-engineered Windows Media Player when Microsoft put a proprietary HDCD decoder into WMP after acquiring the bankrupt Pacific Microsonics.

So, one should be fine and settle on software conversion, be it on-the-fly or offline. Cheapest solution anyway... But that strange itching to get an appropriate hardware player comes back every once in a while...

That‘s why I am asking for 20-bit input into H2. Thanks in advance!

 

[wilsonlaidlaw]

I would be very surprised if the Hugo 2 could directly decode a 20 bit stream. I think all the word lengths it can decode are bit number multiples of 8 and not 4, e.g. 16/24/32/48/64. You might, if you are very lucky find it will up-rez the stream to 24 bit 44.1 kHz but I suspect it would either not recognise the stream at all or at best down-rez to 16bit. I also have a Denon DVD-1800BD which is rumoured to be a re-badged Oppo, which I could try. If you could send me a short audio file, I could try both routes PM me and I will PM back a regular email to send the file to or a download link from Drorpbox etc. I have various media players on Mac: VLC, Music Converter Pro, Audacity, iSkysoft player, Apple Music, Quick Time etc etc. I also have a Benchmark Media DAC-3L, which if any modern DAC was going to recognise a 20 bit file, that would probably be it but probably it would need a DAC using the AD5791 DAC chip, which is a 20 bit chip and maybe the only one.

Wilson

 

[dontfeedphils]

A question to the experts, please: Does Hugo 2 accept a 20-bit input stream, preferably on optical? In particular, I am looking at 20/44.1 input. The Chord website mentions 16 to 32 bits.

Background, although I know it’s going to call for controversies: As a Grateful Dead lover, I have quite some ”real“ HDCD discs (real meaning use of PE) plus Neil Young, Joni Mitchell etc. You know, HDCD is the famously infamous mid-1990s CD format (High Definition Compatible Digital) which encodes 20 bit resolution into the 16/44.1 CD format by embedding control codes into the least significant of the 16 bits. Such HDCD discs can be decoded by hardware or software. All standard CD players play such discs without recovering the ”true“ audio information, ending up in s.th. like 15-bit resolution plus some dither on the LSB.

For hardware, one has to find a used device capable of decoding, and additionally of outputting the decoded 20/44.1 stream digitally (optical preferred). To my knowledge, no single device is manufactured anymore due to the checkered history of Pacific Microsonics and Microsoft. This device shall operate as a transport and HDCD decoder, its DAC shall be circumvented, of course - H2 shall do the d-to-a conversion. Some Rotel CD players had the required PMD-100 chip, but they send only the original 16/44.1 data to their dig outs. A few Oppo DVD/BD players did what is needed; they show up used at a few hundreds of €/$‘s.

Regarding software, foobar2000 on Windows reads the 16/44.1 and decodes it on-the-fly, thus playing from a 24/44.1 stream. dBpoweramp does an off-line decoding. On Linux (preferred), I am suspecting HDCD decoding is about to be included in Music Player Daemon (mpd, at least the online doc for v0.22 mentions it, while the released mpd still is v0.21), based on the HDCD decoder available in ffmpeg. Remark: All software goes back to a person who reverse-engineered Windows Media Player when Microsoft put a proprietary HDCD decoder into WMP after acquiring the bankrupt Pacific Microsonics.

So, one should be fine and settle on software conversion, be it on-the-fly or offline. Cheapest solution anyway... But that strange itching to get an appropriate hardware player comes back every once in a while...

That‘s why I am asking for 20-bit input into H2. Thanks in advance!

FWIW, I've never been able to get the plugin on FB2K to work properly with HDCD rips. It shows the data as HDCD but only shows it at 16 bit and sends out 16 bit. I'm not sure if the FB2K plugin even does 20 bit to be honest. I never took the time to track down a hardware player and try it.

 

[111MilesToGo]

FWIW, I've never been able to get the plugin on FB2K to work properly with HDCD rips. It shows the data as HDCD but only shows it at 16 bit and sends out 16 bit. I'm not sure if the FB2K plugin even does 20 bit to be honest. I never took the time to track down a hardware player and try it.

Well, it works smoothly for me. Guess it‘s not necessary to mention: The rip (e.g. dBpoweramp on Windows or Mac) needs to be done without the HDCD DSP decoder. The FB2K HDCD plugin takes the 16/44.1 data, decodes ”live“ to 20-bit and outputs 24/44.1 with the extra 4 bits padded as zeroes. The dBpoweramp off-line decoder does the same, output 24/44.1 after decoding. The only thing I did not get to grips with yet is this optional +6dB amplification in the decoder plugins; my current opinion is that it should not be applied to tracks with HDCD’s PE (Peak Extension) since that would cause hard digital clipping.

The most annoying thing with HDCD discs is that sometimes various tracks of one album use different HDCD features, even e.g. for Grateful Dead concert albums - they should be consistent across the full length.

Thanks for your comment.

 

[dontfeedphils]

Well, it works smoothly for me. Guess it‘s not necessary to mention: The rip (e.g. dBpoweramp on Windows or Mac) needs to be done without the HDCD DSP decoder. The FB2K HDCD plugin takes the 16/44.1 data, decodes ”live“ to 20-bit and outputs 24/44.1 with the extra 4 bits padded as zeroes. The dBpoweramp off-line decoder does the same, output 24/44.1 after decoding. The only thing I did not get to grips with yet is this optional +6dB amplification in the decoder plugins; my current opinion is that it should not be applied to tracks with HDCD’s PE (Peak Extension) since that would cause hard digital clipping.

The most annoying thing with HDCD discs is that sometimes various tracks of one album use different HDCD features, even e.g. for Grateful Dead concert albums - they should be consistent across the full length.

Thanks for your comment.

Admittedly I've only ever tried one HDCD (Tool - Lateralus). I don't have any others in my collection, so I didn't put much effort into it.

Interested in seeing if you get it working correctly through Hugo2 though.

 

[111MilesToGo]

I would be very surprised if the Hugo 2 could directly decode a 20 bit stream. I think all the word lengths it can decode are bit number multiples of 8 and not 4, e.g. 16/24/32/48/64. You might, if you are very lucky find it will up-rez the stream to 24 bit 44.1 kHz but I suspect it would either not recognise the stream at all or at best down-rez to 16bit. I also have a Denon DVD-1800BD which is rumoured to be a re-badged Oppo, which I could try. If you could send me a short audio file, I could try both routes PM me and I will PM back a regular email to send the file to or a download link from Drorpbox etc. I have various media players on Mac: VLC, Music Converter Pro, Audacity, iSkysoft player, Apple Music, Quick Time etc etc. I also have a Benchmark Media DAC-3L, which if any modern DAC was going to recognise a 20 bit file, that would probably be it but probably it would need a DAC using the AD5791 DAC chip, which is a 20 bit chip and maybe the only one.

Wilson

Thank you very much for your elaborate comment. The Chord website states 16 to 32 bits for the H2, which would mean 16, 24, 32 in case you are right. I guess the only safe answer would be from Chord itself, e.g. @Rob Watts.

So I think we should wait for Chord to give a definitive answer. Thank you so much for your willingness to perform tests on an e-mailed file of mine! I guess it will be the least effort to first wait and eventually turn to such tests a bit later. But you might have physical HDCDs yourself; Reference Recordings is the prime candidate label for such, then Grateful Dead.

 

[Scrum92]

@AC-12 your post is fantastic, thank you very much for taking the time and effort to write that up.

I've been looking into these rPi based solutions for streaming to my Hugo 2, considering either the HifiBerry or Allo route.

I wouldn't be looking to transport it. In fact, it would sit on the desk beside the Hugo 2 and I would swap between USB (PC for YouTube, Discord etc) and Optical (rPi for serious listening) with the rPI running Pi MusicBox so that I can use Spotify.

Is that something you have experience with? Anything I should know?

Thanks

 

[Northern Light]

@AC-12 your post is fantastic, thank you very much for taking the time and effort to write that up.

I've been looking into these rPi based solutions for streaming to my Hugo 2, considering either the HifiBerry or Allo route.

I wouldn't be looking to transport it. In fact, it would sit on the desk beside the Hugo 2 and I would swap between USB (PC for YouTube, Discord etc) and Optical (rPi for serious listening) with the rPI running Pi MusicBox so that I can use Spotify.

Is that something you have experience with? Anything I should know?

Thanks

Get an Allo USBridge Sig and/or DigiOne Signature plus a decent power supply, and done.

 

[Scrum92]

Get an Allo USBridge Sig and/or DigiOne Signature plus a decent power supply, and done.

Are there any readily available cables to connect the DigiOne to Hugo 2? Seems like they need to be different connectors on each end?

 

[Northern Light]

Are there any readily available cables to connect the DigiOne to Hugo 2? Seems like they need to be different connectors on each end?

If you use the USBridge, you have a suitable cable that came with your Hugo. For the DigiOne, you would need to get a cabe. Chord Company has one in their Clearway range.

 

[Progisus]

Are there any readily available cables to connect the DigiOne to Hugo 2? Seems like they need to be different connectors on each end?

Moon Audio makes a good one.