[Christer]

That would be fine for Qutest - it would last for around 100 hours per charge with Qutest.

But it's too powerful for flying, and doesn't have 12v OP for M scaler.

The Krisdonia 25000mAh NJF-2 is more reasonably priced and will allow travelling and M scaler.

Theoretically interesting options but my initial searches only retrieve Amazon as usual which I REALLY want to avoid if possible.
Amazon is a company I do not want to support.
I have had one bad experience with them.
They sent me the wrong products and I had to pay for the return.
And I was not looking for one powerbank to run both at the same time . I want to run them from separate ones.
Isn´t that the best way?
100 hours sounds VERY good for home use though.
How many hours would that smaller and allowed on flights model give with Qutest and HMS respectively?
I would not be using it/them on flights but would not want to risk having them confiscated.


There are many other powerbanks available in phone shops and computer shops here in Sweden and I get confused and do not know how to sort the bad not suitable ones from the good suitable ones and so far none of the ones including Kristdonia ones mentioned here now or earlier seem to be for sale in any physical shops I can find. Could you please also suggest other recommended brands and models sold by other outlets than Amazon?
Cheers CC

 

[pkny]

The problem with PSUs is RF noise, as it creates noise floor modulation. But - it needs to be random RF noise to create noise floor modulation within the analogue sections of a DAC. A DC to DC converter uses a PWM waveform to switch; this inherently does not create random RF noise, and the switching noise OP is very easy to filter from a switching regulator, and the RF filters built into my designs are more than capable of eliminating this residual issue.

But removing random RF noise in the 100kHz to 10 GHz bandwidth is an immensely difficult job - it's multiple orders of magnitude more difficult to do than removing switching noise. The problem with the mains is that it has huge levels of random RF noise, which audiophile linear PSUs do nothing to remove (unlike all SMPS).

So ignore the nonsense that power banks have DC to DC converters and so are not good. If you try a power bank and don't like the warmth, then you are merely preferring the distortion of noise floor modulation from linear PSUs.

Thank you for the explanation. I am using the Krisdonia 25000mAh NJF-2, and I find that the internal battery in Hugo2 still sounds better. Is there other noise from the powerbank that can affect the SQ?

Thanks

 

[Jawed]

Thank you for the explanation. I am using the Krisdonia 25000mAh NJF-2, and I find that the internal battery in Hugo2 still sounds better. Is there other noise from the powerbank that can affect the SQ?

Thanks

The cable connecting the power bank to Hugo 2 will be acting as an RF antenna.

Cover the cable, end to end, with clip on ferrites They cost about $1 bought from Amazon. Try Topnisus brand for packs of 10. Topnisus sizing is "too small", so size up by 2mm for a cable that's about 3 or 5mm thick. Or 1mm for cables that are thicker.

 

[PANURUS]

Theoretically interesting options but my initial searches only retrieve Amazon as usual which I REALLY want to avoid if possible.
Amazon is a company I do not want to support.
I have had one bad experience with them.
They sent me the wrong products and I had to pay for the return.
And I was not looking for one powerbank to run both at the same time . I want to run them from separate ones.
Isn´t that the best way?
100 hours sounds VERY good for home use though.
How many hours would that smaller and allowed on flights model give with Qutest and HMS respectively?
I would not be using it/them on flights but would not want to risk having them confiscated.


There are many other powerbanks available in phone shops and computer shops here in Sweden and I get confused and do not know how to sort the bad not suitable ones from the good suitable ones and so far none of the ones including Kristdonia ones mentioned here now or earlier seem to be for sale in any physical shops I can find. Could you please also suggest other recommended brands and models sold by other outlets than Amazon?
Cheers CC

https://poweroak.be/nl/3-powerbanks
I use this one with Mcaler Hugo2 and Mojo2.

 

[Kentajalli]

@Rob Watts a question.
Thanx for your reply regarding Powersupply types and random RF noise.
I was surprised that linear types have more of the noise compared to SMPS types.
Could you possibly point me to some literature on web for further reading.
So far I have been unsuccessful .
thanx.

 

[Christer]

https://poweroak.be/nl/3-powerbanks
I use this one with Mcaler Hugo2 and Mojo2.

Thanks ,but when I go to their site there is an annoying popup box that blocks out the site and insists on me subscribing to it via my email, before allowing me to enter the site and I can not close it.
That is even worse than Amazon.
I hate to get junkmail from such sites in my mailbox.
I´ll have to keep looking elsewhere.
Hopefully there will be suitable high quality powerbanks for sale in real physical shops somewhere.
But thanks anyway for trying to help.
What surprises me is that if as Rob apparently and repeatedly admits that the best way to drive both Mscaler and Qutest are via some kind of battery powered supply which are the products I am using, why does he or Chord not officially recommend AND sell BOTH the needed concectors and a selection of suitable powerbanks together with their products?

Come on Chord, there is money to be made here, go for it!

Yes I am aware of the warranty issues involved, but if THEY provided and sold some reliable properly tested ones I guess many potential users would not want to risk frying their products by making their own connectors needed for Mscaler or connecting their Mscaler to a powerbank that has the wrong voltage.
A bit strange to be discussing this on the H2 thread with H2 being a product which actually runs from batteries AND unlike the new Mojo 2 also sell with a charger!!!!
Or have they dropped that on H2 too ?
My Hugo 1 sold with a charger.
I really like the SQ of Rob´s products since Mscaler entered the scene, but the penny pinching cost cutting compromised decisions very often involved with Chord products are VERY irritating to say the least.
You can not even turn off the Mscaler. I guess a switch to do so would have been too expensive to include at the bargain price it sells for?

And which other company would sell a battery powered unit / chargeable product like Mojo and Mojo 2 without supplying a proper dedicated charger?

PS. Supergrumpy today, I hate this stormy Swedish February winter without snow.

Cheers CC

 

[Christer]

@Rob Watts a question.
Thanx for your reply regarding Powersupply types and random RF noise.
I was surprised that linear types have more of the noise compared to SMPS types.
Could you possibly point me to some literature on web for further reading.
So far I have been unsuccessful .
thanx.

I would also like to know if it is because of being linear as opposed to switching as such. Or if the problems with linear PSU disappear if one runs them via battery?
A bit puzzling that so many here invest in super expensive PSU´s for their Chord products and Rob himself claims the opposite of their opinions?

Cheers CC

 

[GreenBow]

That would be fine for Qutest - it would last for around 100 hours per charge with Qutest.

But it's too powerful for flying, and doesn't have 12v OP for M scaler.

The Krisdonia 25000mAh NJF-2 is more reasonably priced and will allow travelling and M scaler.

Sorry if I misundertood.

That Krisdonia 222Wh/60000mAh 130W states to run 5V/9V/12V output.

 

[pkny]

The cable connecting the power bank to Hugo 2 will be acting as an RF antenna.

Cover the cable, end to end, with clip on ferrites They cost about $1 bought from Amazon. Try Topnisus brand for packs of 10. Topnisus sizing is "too small", so size up by 2mm for a cable that's about 3 or 5mm thick. Or 1mm for cables that are thicker.

I have already added tons of clip on ferrites and changed to a shorter cable, but the SQ still cannot match what internal battery does. While powerbank has the warmth of the internal battery, but it has a smaller (in wide, height, and depth) soundstage and less ambient clues. May be the charging circuit in Hugo2 generates EMI/RFI that affects the analog side. I don't know. Hoping @Rob Watts can share more of his knowledge.

 

[Jawed]

I have already added tons of clip on ferrites and changed to a shorter cable, but the SQ still cannot match what internal battery does. While powerbank has the warmth of the internal battery, but it has a smaller (in wide, height, and depth) soundstage and less ambient clues.

Thanks for replying with very interesting findings.

Sorry, I can't offer any other ideas for what seems to be a frustrating setup conundrum.

 

[Christer]

I have already added tons of clip on ferrites and changed to a shorter cable, but the SQ still cannot match what internal battery does. While powerbank has the warmth of the internal battery, but it has a smaller (in wide, height, and depth) soundstage and less ambient clues. May be the charging circuit in Hugo2 generates EMI/RFI that affects the analog side. I don't know. Hoping @Rob Watts can share more of his knowledge.

Hmm, interesting observations, but still a bit weird to be discussing powerbanks on the H2 thread.

Who really needs a powerbank for H2?

It will run for hours on the inbuilt battery will it not?
And by design it should be the best way to run it shouldn´t it?
Hugo 1 definitely is/was !!
Connected to the mains mine could be very problematic.


My Qutest on the other hand or the other 2 desktop dacs that can be used with an Mscaler do NOT include a battery.

Since I am already very grumpy today I might add that if Rob had NOT omitted the inbuilt battery on TT2 when there was one on TT1 !! I personally would probably have chosen TT2 over Qutest.
Via headphones and WITH Mscaler there was an audible advantage SQ wise.
But I did not like TT2 very much on its own, too edgy and digital sounding in the negative sense of the term with large scale acoustic music.

Yes I know both H2 and the new Mojo 2 also work with an Mscaler but I doubt Mojo2 will satisfy my needs or even improve much on Hugo 1 when even H2 did not quite appeal to me as much as Qutest combined with a good headphone amp like my Benchmark HGC2.
Sometimes I do not understand the choices Rob/Chord make when launching new products. They do not always seem to be based on my main preference,the best possible SQ?
And yes it would help if they published easily comparable specs with exactly the same parameters measured the same way for their products instead of changing how they measure and what they choose to publish for every new product.
I am bit confused by the -125dB noise level ?published for Mojo 2. How does that figure compare to H2 or TT2 or Qutest in real user terms?
No audible hiss at all?
But only 4 elements employed compared to 10 or more ? I guess all the EQ and crossfeed "toys and tools" included in Mojo 2 where considered much more important than optimal SQ and took all the capacity of the FPGA?
Cheers CC

 

[pkny]

Thanks for replying with very interesting findings.

Sorry, I can't offer any other ideas for what seems to be a frustrating setup conundrum.

Thank you for your suggestion. You don't need to say sorry. I am not frustrated at all. In fact, I am having fun trying different things to improve SQ. I also love to learn every theory behind each SQ tweak. This is what make his hobby fun.

 

[pkny]

@Rob Watts a question.
Thanx for your reply regarding Powersupply types and random RF noise.
I was surprised that linear types have more of the noise compared to SMPS types.
Could you possibly point me to some literature on web for further reading.
So far I have been unsuccessful .
thanx.

Please correct me if I am wrong. Mr. Watts did not say LPS has more noise than SMPS. From his post, here is my understanding:

• Random RF noise creates noise floor modulation, which degrade SQ
• Random RF noise is very difficult to be fully removed
• Main has lots of random RF noise
• SMPS have filter to remove part of the random RF noise
• LPS does not have filter to remove of the random RF noise (I don’t fully agree. Yes, many LPS don’t have main filter, but some LPS have main filter build-in. I could be wrong, but I believe part of the random RF noise is removed by those filters.)
• DC to DC converter has switching noise, but no random RF noise
• All Mr. Watts' designed DACs has filter to completely remove switching noise

So, power bank is better than both SMPS and LPS because there is no main's random RF noise, and the switching noise from DC-DC converter is easy to be removed.

 

[pkny]

Hmm, interesting observations, but still a bit weird to be discussing powerbanks on the H2 thread.

Who really needs a powerbank for H2?

It will run for hours on the inbuilt battery will it not?
And by design it should be the best way to run it shouldn´t it?
Hugo 1 definitely is/was !!
Connected to the mains mine could be very problematic.


My Qutest on the other hand or the other 2 desktop dacs that can be used with an Mscaler do NOT include a battery.

Since I am already very grumpy today I might add that if Rob had NOT omitted the inbuilt battery on TT2 when there was one on TT1 !! I personally would probably have chosen TT2 over Qutest.
Via headphones and WITH Mscaler there was an audible advantage SQ wise.
But I did not like TT2 very much on its own, too edgy and digital sounding in the negative sense of the term with large scale acoustic music.

Yes I know both H2 and the new Mojo 2 also work with an Mscaler but I doubt Mojo2 will satisfy my needs or even improve much on Hugo 1 when even H2 did not quite appeal to me as much as Qutest combined with a good headphone amp like my Benchmark HGC2.
Sometimes I do not understand the choices Rob/Chord make when launching new products. They do not always seem to be based on my main preference,the best possible SQ?
And yes it would help if they published easily comparable specs with exactly the same parameters measured the same way for their products instead of changing how they measure and what they choose to publish for every new product.
I am bit confused by the -125dB noise level ?published for Mojo 2. How does that figure compare to H2 or TT2 or Qutest in real user terms?
No audible hiss at all?
But only 4 elements employed compared to 10 or more ? I guess all the EQ and crossfeed "toys and tools" included in Mojo 2 where considered much more important than optimal SQ and took all the capacity of the FPGA?
Cheers CC

Using power bank for H2 is to preserve the life span of the internal battery. For critical listening, I always use the internal batteries.

 

[Kentajalli]

Please correct me if I am wrong. Mr. Watts did not say LPS has more noise than SMPS. From his post, here is my understanding:

• Random RF noise creates noise floor modulation, which degrade SQ
• Random RF noise is very difficult to be fully removed
• Main has lots of random RF noise
• SMPS have filter to remove part of the random RF noise
• LPS does not have filter to remove of the random RF noise (I don’t fully agree. Yes, many LPS don’t have main filter, but some LPS have main filter build-in. I could be wrong, but I believe part of the random RF noise is removed by those filters.)
• DC to DC converter has switching noise, but no random RF noise
• All Mr. Watts' designed DACs has filter to completely remove switching noise

So, power bank is better than both SMPS and LPS because there is no main's random RF noise, and the switching noise from DC-DC converter is easy to be removed.

@Rob Watts said:
The problem with the mains is that it has huge levels of random RF noise, which audiophile linear PSUs do nothing to remove (unlike all SMPS).
I was asking if he meant that Linear PSU's mainly ignore filtering for randon RF noise and/or SMPS types generally address the issue.
It just seemed odd to me, since Mr. Watts is much more knowledgeable than me in such matters, I wanted to learn.
My original post was a reply as to why powerbanks can be noisier than linear PSUs and I pointed to the DC-DC converter inside such banks as the source of the noise, obviously batteries can not be noisy.
We'll see if Mr. Watts feels a reply is justified.

I would also like to know if it is because of being linear as opposed to switching as such. Or if the problems with linear PSU disappear if one runs them via battery?
A bit puzzling that so many here invest in super expensive PSU´s for their Chord products and Rob himself claims the opposite of their opinions?

Cheers CC

To my knowledge Linear battery powered PSUs do not exist since Linear is not efficient so it would waste precious battery power.
Also SMPS/charge-pump is used in battery powered banks to boost the voltage (usually from 3.7V to 5V) , linear can not boost voltage, it can chop off the ripple/noise portion , stabalizing the output, so there is always a voltage drop with linear.
As to why Random RF noise filtering is not done or is possible with such technique, I hope Mr. Watts would shine some light on.