[DrewVz]

Not much activity here, but I thought I'd throw out a question....

I've been using my Terminator 2 for a few months and only lately really started to notice the difference in certain tracks by changing the positive/negative phase. Very convenient with the button on the front panel. But I can't believe how much difference it makes in almost every album I've tested so far. In fact, I've made a separate file to keep track of my preferred phase setting for each album. I haven't found much difference track-to-track within the same album. But so far, after about 30 albums, I've found almost a 50/50 split in terms of phase setting. And it's clearly obvious. Sometimes when I'm listening to multiple albums on my playlist, I forget to change the phase and realize "Hey, there's something wrong with the sound" and then find out I have the wrong phase setting per my tracker file.

Anyone else using the phase button like this? I mean, it really is noticeable, especially with regard to imaging and focus.

 

[sajunky]

Not much activity here, but I thought I'd throw out a question....

I've been using my Terminator 2 for a few months and only lately really started to notice the difference in certain tracks by changing the positive/negative phase. Very convenient with the button on the front panel. But I can't believe how much difference it makes in almost every album I've tested so far. In fact, I've made a separate file to keep track of my preferred phase setting for each album. I haven't found much difference track-to-track within the same album. But so far, after about 30 albums, I've found almost a 50/50 split in terms of phase setting. And it's clearly obvious. Sometimes when I'm listening to multiple albums on my playlist, I forget to change the phase and realize "Hey, there's something wrong with the sound" and then find out I have the wrong phase setting per my tracker file.

Anyone else using the phase button like this? I mean, it really is noticeable, especially with regard to imaging and focus.

Only very few recordings are made using a reversed phase (absolute phase), so if you say 50/50, it is completely wrong. I think your decision is based on wrong criteria. You need to evaluate based on a different criteria, I think. Try jazz, classical or a pop using acoustic instruments, not a techno, computer generated music. The later use artificial effects not found in nature. We are product of the nature, these creations can be confusing to our brain.

 

[DrewVz]

Only very few recordings are made using a reversed phase (absolute phase), so if you say 50/50, it is completely wrong. I think your decision is based on wrong criteria. You need to evaluate based on a different criteria, I think. Try jazz, classical or a pop using acoustic instruments, not a techno, computer generated music. The later use artificial effects not found in nature. We are product of the nature, these creations can be confusing to our brain.

Lol, I'm not sure what you're saying. I almost EXCLUSIVELY listen to techno, trance, dub, psybient, and EDM. Why should I listen to jazz, classical, or pop just to hear that they generally are in-phase? I suppose if I *did* listen to them, then I would find that they might generally be in-phase and I would make the proper adjustments on the DAC.

What I'm saying is that for the music that I listen to, I have found that in order to make them sound "right", then roughly half of them are positive phase and half are negative. The criteria that I'm using is if they sound similar to each other. My goal is tight focus, good center image, broad soundstage, and high resolution. If I change them to the "wrong" phase, then they get blurry, not in focus, with a muddled center stage, and overall it just sounds off. I doubt that the artists' original intent was to have the song sound muddled and blurry with a flat soundstage. So I choose the phase that gives me the best 3D sound, a broad soundstage with good depth, and the highest resolution with sharp imaging.

If that's wrong, then so be it. But that's how I enjoy listening to my music.

 

[sajunky]

Lol, I'm not sure what you're saying. I almost EXCLUSIVELY listen to techno, trance, dub, psybient, and EDM. Why should I listen to jazz, classical, or pop just to hear that they generally are in-phase?

I guessed correct, right?

It is not in/out-phase, but the absolute phase switch. In nature when air pressure is created at the source, it is propagated and arrives to our receptors by increasing pressure, not by decreasing. In computer generated music it is either nobody cares about absolute phase in music creation, or our brain is so confused with number of effects that everybody will hear it different. A 50/50 rate is indicative that the later.

It means that what you say is not true, as you hear it different than the officer behind a mixing desk. You can make tests, asking others which switch position is better and compare with your notes. It will be interesting to see your feedback.

 

[DrewVz]

I don't think it's a matter of hearing it differently. I think it MAY be a matter of personal preference. But probably not. Clarity, staging, and imaging are pretty much standard goals of any mixing engineer. What I'm hearing is pretty clear. Not really a preference.

And I don't think it's a matter of effects. Yes, it's possible that people can hear things differently, but again it's not likely. I've been listening to techno for almost 30 years. It may be more a matter of "don't care" than anything else. I'd love to know the truth, but it will probably never happen.

In the meantime, I'll just keep trying to find the best sound for my ears. But I'm still interested in hearing what other folks are hearing with their Terminator.

 

[CAJames]

All I know is when I first turned on my T2 I was shocked, shocked, at how unimpressive the sound was. After listening for about 30 minutes I hit the phase button and the music literally jumped out of the speakers and I haven't touched it since. I listen to mostly classical and jazz FWIW.

 

[DrewVz]

Well, I wouldn't go that far. The difference is clear, but not so bad that I would consider the T2 to be unimpressive if the button isn't pushed just right.

The T2 is amazing either way. I'm just talking about gaining that extra 2-5% that we're always searching for.

 

[shwnwllms]

New Terminators just dropped (12th anniversary edition II / +)

https://www.vinshineaudio.com/12th?...mail&cid=ba1158b4-b246-4d26-ade3-4963cf2747e1

 

[audiobill]

New Terminators just dropped (12th anniversary edition II / +)

https://www.vinshineaudio.com/12th?...mail&cid=ba1158b4-b246-4d26-ade3-4963cf2747e1

Should a new thread be started specific to these new 12th Anniversary Editions of the Terminator II and Plus models? Would expect reviews and much discussion to come.

 

[smodtactical]

Anyone compare OG Terminator with stock or v2 board with T2 and T+ ?

 

[Koren]

Hello. is there maybe a general denafrips forum? because I didn't find it. I want a link if you have one. thanks .

 

[S Crowther]

Anyone compare OG Terminator with stock or v2 board with T2 and T+ ?

I moved from T OG with stock board to v2 board: I did not notice much difference to SQ but it allowed DSD512. Then I traded the T OG for the to T+: big improvement all round. Just a better DAC. Now I have traded that for the T12: another big improvement- clarity, bass details, staging, separation. The same DAC but at a higher level.
I am using it with the Gaia i2s. Not sure the improvement would be so great on USB.

 

[rreynolds]

I moved from T OG with stock board to v2 board: I did not notice much difference to SQ but it allowed DSD512. Then I traded the T OG for the to T+: big improvement all round. Just a better DAC. Now I have traded that for the T12: another big improvement- clarity, bass details, staging, separation. The same DAC but at a higher level.
I am using it with the Gaia i2s. Not sure the improvement would be so great on USB.

Curious how the T+12 sounds compared to the T+ as I own the Gaia as well. If Vinshine offered an upgrade program similar to Hifiman's, it'd be very tempting.

 

[realmassy]

Shipping that beast across the pond might be too expensive anyway

 

[S Crowther]

Curious how the T+12 sounds compared to the T+ as I own the Gaia as well. If Vinshine offered an upgrade program similar to Hifiman's, it'd be very tempting.

My local dealer in Hong Kong offered me an upgrade.