[lwr]

Great to hear! I'm fixing to update the firmware on mine. Was having second thoughts after hearing initial impressions from others, but the benefits I think will highlight nicely with my system. Can't imagine it changing the house sound SO MUCH I'll want to revert, but we'll see.

 

[lwr]

The firmware update worked out for me as well. In my system, the SQ improvements are as described by EugeneIChng,

The analog output level now appears to be quite a bit higher than before the firmware update. I suspect that some other’s descriptions of the SQ as having become rather harsh, flat, and sometimes making clicking noises is due to clipping of their preamp inputs. I will test this hypothesis by installing a passive output attenuator and seeing if that will improve the SQ of those recordings that I like, but which are now sounding rather harsh because masters were mixed with unusually high average output levels (eg were victims of the “loudness wars”).

In my setup, the Pass Labs XP-22 preamp seems to be fairly tolerant of input overloads from most recordings that I’ve played since the Terminator Plus firmware update. My best recordings now provide a much more immersive audio experience.

However, those recordings the were poorly recorded, especially those with loudness war mastering, are less enjoyable than before. I am hopeful that adding output attenuation between the Terminator Plus and the preamp will help with that. If so, that would suggest that a further revision of the firmware update is definitely needed to internally reduce the Terminator Plus analog output level.

I am using the Gaia DDC with a Revelation Audio SPDIF cable connection to the Terminator Plus, master clock synchronization, and Mundorf SG alloy balanced cable connections to the preamp.

 

[CAJames]

...The analog output level now appears to be quite a bit higher than before the firmware update. I suspect that some other’s descriptions of the SQ as having become rather harsh, flat, and sometimes making clicking noises is due to clipping of their preamp inputs. I will test this hypothesis by installing a passive output attenuator and seeing if that will improve the SQ of those recordings that I like, but which are now sounding rather harsh because masters were mixed with unusually high average output levels (eg were victims of the “loudness wars”)...

Interesting. I didn't notice any significant difference in the output level after the upgrade with my T2+Gaia. I did notice after 48 hours of burn in the sound mellowed out considerably. FWIW/JMO/YMMV and all that.

 

[lwr]

What preamp are you using?

 

[CAJames]

Woo WA22. For headphones and my speaker amp.

 

[CAJames]

I’m using an I2S connection and clock sync between the Gaia and T2.

 

[Rikkipuu]

After the update on my TP the I2S to the Iris is not working. I can set the pin out for either PCM or DSD but not both. Additionally the sound thru I2S is flat and undynamic, really quite bad. Apparently my Iris is an older unit and it is a known issue regarding the I2S, is suspect the sound issue is related. I get the impression it will not be addressed. My options are revert back to v1.0 or use the USB. I do think the USB sounds better than before the update but I am disappointed they are not going to make it right. I feel like selling the Iris but can't knowing it has an issue.

And another thing....I was using NOS before the update but I don't like the NOS setting now, its weird sounding. I found the OS with sharp filter more natural.

And another thing.....for the most part I don't like the sound of most Hi-Rez files now. They sound more digital in the mid and higher frequencies, fatiguing. I think in general 16/44 sounds much smoother on my TP with V3.7. I haven't listened to much DSD but I think is sounds pretty good and maybe better.

 

[EugeneChng]

Running in the new firmware. Some interesting observations about the new firmware on T2 in OS mode on my system :

1. OS mode with the high filter works well and gives a tighter and more lively sound. Remember to turn on the high filter so that the high frequencies will be less fatiguing.
2. more details with the OS mode.

Have never like the OS mode before but this time I am keeping it on ..

 

[CAJames]

After the update on my TP the I2S to the Iris is not working. I can set the pin out for either PCM or DSD but not both. Additionally the sound thru I2S is flat and undynamic, really quite bad. Apparently my Iris is an older unit and it is a known issue regarding the I2S, is suspect the sound issue is related. I get the impression it will not be addressed. My options are revert back to v1.0 or use the USB. I do think the USB sounds better than before the update but I am disappointed they are not going to make it right. I feel like selling the Iris but can't knowing it has an issue.

And another thing....I was using NOS before the update but I don't like the NOS setting now, its weird sounding. I found the OS with sharp filter more natural.

And another thing.....for the most part I don't like the sound of most Hi-Rez files now. They sound more digital in the mid and higher frequencies, fatiguing. I think in general 16/44 sounds much smoother on my TP with V3.7. I haven't listened to much DSD but I think is sounds pretty good and maybe better.

Running in the new firmware. Some interesting observations about the new firmware on T2 in OS mode on my system :

1. OS mode with the high filter works well and gives a tighter and more lively sound. Remember to turn on the high filter so that the high frequencies will be less fatiguing.
2. more details with the OS mode.

Have never like the OS mode before but this time I am keeping it on ..

Before the update I liked NOS on my T2 + Gaia, and right after the update I gave OS a quick listen expecting not to like it and was not disappointed. But this morning I tried it again with the sharp filter and yeah, it sounds really good. Tighter bass, more detail and in general "faster." In comparison I'd call NOS "smoother." It also seems like the output level for OS might be a little higher than NOS, but that is just a first impression. I'm not sure I prefer OS at this point but I'm going to leave it on for a while and see how it plays.

FTR/FWIW I upsample 16/44 to 176 in either Foobar or my Jay's CD transport. That is probably another variable to play around with at some point.

 

[wivl]

a bit sad that if you want to update the T2 to 3.7 you can no longer use the IRIS

 

[wivl]

After the update on my TP the I2S to the Iris is not working. I can set the pin out for either PCM or DSD but not both. Additionally the sound thru I2S is flat and undynamic, really quite bad. Apparently my Iris is an older unit and it is a known issue regarding the I2S, is suspect the sound issue is related. I get the impression it will not be addressed. My options are revert back to v1.0 or use the USB. I do think the USB sounds better than before the update but I am disappointed they are not going to make it right. I feel like selling the Iris but can't knowing it has an issue.

And another thing....I was using NOS before the update but I don't like the NOS setting now, its weird sounding. I found the OS with sharp filter more natural.

And another thing.....for the most part I don't like the sound of most Hi-Rez files now. They sound more digital in the mid and higher frequencies, fatiguing. I think in general 16/44 sounds much smoother on my TP with V3.7. I haven't listened to much DSD but I think is sounds pretty good and maybe better.

a bit sad that if you want to update the T2 to 3.7 you can no longer use the IRIS

 

[Rikkipuu]

a bit sad that if you want to update the T2 to 3.7 you can no longer use the IRIS

The Iris is actually usable normally for all the outputs except I2S. To use I2S the pin out needs to be reset between playing DSD and PCM. Not a problem if not playing DSD. However I am not convinced I2S sounds better than USB direct from the TP. The firmware upgrade improved the overall sound and USB.

 

[rickles]

Has anyone compared the Terminator Plus to the Terminator Plus 12th? Is there an appreciable difference?

 

[S Crowther]

Has anyone compared the Terminator Plus to the Terminator Plus 12th? Is there an appreciable difference?

Yes there is or at least there was before the latest firmware update to the T+. I do not know after the update.
Nothing changes but everything sounds one step better.

 

[MilitaryHifi]

DISCLAIMER: This information was gathered from Denafrips/Vinshine Site & Videos. I've no personal experience with any of the mentioned equipment.

Alright, I compiled this information to help other potential buyers. This was the information I gathered from different denafrips videos, Vinshine Alvin videos and spec list on the websites. I am currently in the market for a denafrips totl dac. Me being no stranger to buying from the preowned market, older gear for a substantial cheaper price. I always recommend purchaing older gear to save more money and have more funds for future pre owned gear.

With denafrips and a lot of the different audio companys, some make it harder then others to know exactly how outdated the older gear is compared to the new gear.

Lets begin.


Understanding denafrips uses trickle down technology.

Terminator originally released in 2017 for 4000

Terminator Plus released in 2020 for 6200

Terminator 2 released in 2021 1 year after for 4500

Terminator 2 12th released end of 2022 - start of 2023 for 4600

Terminator plus 12th released for 7141 end of 2022

Currently Terminator 2 12th is 4900

Currently Terminator plus 12th is 7500

Terminator 2 released in 2021, took all the upgrades from the Terminator Plus.

Taken from website:

Improvements of the Terminator II over the older Terminator:

Total segregation of Digital Signal Processing and R-2R Network Arrays (Analog) boards
Oven-Controlled Crystal Oscillators OCXO replace the TCXO clocks.
High-speed Digital Isolation. The silicon-dioxide (SiO2 ) isolation barrier with isolated power supply effective isolate the ground and block the noise from one end to the other
Redesigned Power Supply Unit (encapsulated underneath the DAC board)
Supercapacitors for Digital & Analogue circuitry for high energy storage to ensure supply of constant cleaned DC power to the circuitry
Clock Out eco-system to sync with DENAFRIPS DDC.


Now you ask, what are the differences between the Terminator II and the Terminator Plus?

The differences between the Terminator II and Plus, the Terminator Plus comes with premium offering of:

Aluminum anodized curvy front panel
Precision, hand-picked, premium OCXO
Hand-picked R-2R board

Terminator 2 12th/plus 12th upgrades from previous model Terminator 2/plus

Enhanced critical circuitry to further minimize the noise floor
Greater tonal density • Ultra High Resolution
Upgraded components, including ROE NOS Caps
High-purity gold-silver-copper alloy enameled wire o-core transformer(s) (Power Supply)
Complete redesigned power supply circuitry
Direct FPGA processing of I2S • Shorter signal path guaranteed
(Signal paths only add distortion and noise and degrade performance and as such should be kept at minimum length) (Source hifi-advice)

This is the information I took from the different vinshine videos.

Pontus 2 is close to the original Venus
Venus 2 is close to the original terminator
Terminator 2 is close to the original Terminator plus

If denafrips finds a better way along the way they will change varients of components.

My assumptions from what I learned:

Venus 2 12th I would assume edges original Terminator.
Terminator 2 12th surpasses the Terminator plus.
Terminator Plus 12th is the new flagship totl, if you want best of the best.

From vinshine/denafrips video, Denafrips understands that the power supply quality makes a huge difference in sound quality.
From denafrips site. As a firm advocate of high-quality power supply being the bedrock of superior sound.

With the new gold,silver,copper of the psu in denafrips, my research turned me too googling: gold silver and copper wiring audio power supply
That in turn led me to find Mundorf Angelique. This was the only wire I found when googling gold, silver, copper wiring for audio power supply.

Maybe thats why the price increase is higher now, because of the cost of the wiring for the psu, which seems like the most expensive component being its so heavy.


So all these notes were for me, to help myself with the costly buying decision on which denafrips terminator to get. I can't swing the Terminator plus 12th for 7500+, but the Terminator 2 is right in the price I can do. The Terminator plus preowned market is around the same price as the new 12th. So with all the information I know now. I would take the new Terminator 2 12th over the preowned Terminator Plus if they were the same price.

Hope this helps all the buyers with their future purchase. I was confused because of so many different models and revisions. Great that denafrips does trickle down technology, not so good for second hand buyers, haha, it gets very confusing.