[gb21011971]

is the drivers removeable from the housing? have you try to make it open back? i haven't try denon d7200 but i rarely like closed back headphone

If you don't like closed headphones, I suggest buying an open one. Tons of good quality headphones out there (more than closed ones). Modding a 7200 into an open one sounds like putting the cart before the horse. Or buying a conventional car and spending time and money to remove the roof and build a convertible, when you can also just buy a convertible.

 

[Camper1995]

If you don't like closed headphones, I suggest buying an open one. Tons of good quality headphones out there (more than closed ones). Modding a 7200 into an open one sounds like putting the cart before the horse. Or buying a conventional car and spending time and money to remove the roof and build a convertible, when you can also just buy a convertible.

Yup, definitely a good point. The D7200 driver definitely isn't tuned to be used in an open design, you lose too much detail and introduce a lot of bloom in the lower frequencies, I just tried using them without the wooden cups for 2-3 days, definitely doesn't replace a proper open headphone, the vocals lose their magic. I don't even wanna imagine how much you'd have to mess with the driver until you made it work for an open design (even then I bet it wouldn't be as good as in stock form).
Plus who would want to take off those walnut cups, they are gorgeous to stare at

 

[gb21011971]

Had about 50 hrs on them, the mids start to clean up. I was never a (big) believer in burn in, but these are definitely getting better!

Just listened to Erykah Badu's Baduizm, quite a bass heavy album. Never enjoyed it that much as with the D7200. Dark, rumbling, fast and dry bass without mid bass bleed. Exceptional. My main closed headphone before was Beyer's T5p.2. That one has quite some bass quantity too, but more skewed towards mid bass dominance (which I can't stand and reminds me too much of Beats ). In spite of the fact that I think the mids and highs are somewhat more refined on the Beyerdynamic, I like the overall presentation of the Denon's much more.

Think I found my closed cans... for now...with the HD820 looming on the horizon. LOL.

 

[alota]

Had about 50 hrs on them, the mids start to clean up. I was never a (big) believer in burn in, but these are definitely getting better!

Just listened to Erykah Badu's Baduizm, quite a bass heavy album. Never enjoyed it that much as with the D7200. Dark, rumbling, fast and dry bass without mid bass bleed. Exceptional. My main closed headphone before was Beyer's T5p.2. That one has quite some bass quantity too, but more skewed towards mid bass dominance (which I can't stand and reminds me too much of Beats ). In spite of the fact that I think the mids and highs are somewhat more refined on the Beyerdynamic, I like the overall presentation of the Denon's much more.

Think I found my closed cans... for now...with the HD820 looming on the horizon. LOL.

you think that difference with clear is big? of course with due difference between open and close configuration. thank you

 

[DoctaCosmos]

Got to hear these and was surprised with the sound. Pretty good. Not sure if they weren’t burned in or what but aside from the dryness that I actually quite liked, seemed a little hard and slightly grainy. I’m going to call and see if they’d been burned in or not and if not request it because I could see myself owning a pair of these. Could be great with classical. Cellos in particular with the elevated bass and dry timbre.

 

[gb21011971]

you think that difference with clear is big? of course with due difference between open and close configuration. thank you

The Clear is without doubt the better headphone, but for a closed headphone I find the 7200 really, really good. The one thing that the 7200 does better than the Clear is deep bass extension. the Clear is no slouch in this regard, but the 7200 is exceptional. I can imagine that some people think bass quantity is too much - I do not think so, at least not for most genres. It does have a pronounced bass though. While the Clear for an open headphone has plenty of bass and real slam, it is more neutral than the 7200. Clear's bass is fast, very well textured and just "right-sized" for most genres. Both headphones have bass that does not bleed into the mid section and lean more to deep bass than mid-bass. This is crucial for me: I love deep rumbling bass, but I just cannot stand bloomy mid-bass, this ruins the whole experience for me.

In all other respects, the Clear is better IMO, which it should be, given that it is open and 2x more expensive. I think it is tonally pretty perfectly balanced, except for a slight mid forwardness that might burn away as I only have these since short. I did notice that amping with a warmer, punchier amp does benefit the Clear (unlike the 7200). My beloved HA-1 is not the best choice, my HA200 mono blocks do a much better job, as they are not as bright as the HA-1.

All in all I am very happy with both headphones, they are my prefered open and closed cans, respectively.

Got to hear these and was surprised with the sound. Pretty good. Not sure if they weren’t burned in or what but aside from the dryness that I actually quite liked, seemed a little hard and slightly grainy. I’m going to call and see if they’d been burned in or not and if not request it because I could see myself owning a pair of these. Could be great with classical. Cellos in particular with the elevated bass and dry timbre.

Not sure if it's real burn in or just mental burn in, but IMO it does get a lot better after some time. The graininess goes away and mids get a bit less shouty.

 

[gb21011971]

Family Reunion

 

[alota]

The Clear is without doubt the better headphone, but for a closed headphone I find the 7200 really, really good. The one thing that the 7200 does better than the Clear is deep bass extension. the Clear is no slouch in this regard, but the 7200 is exceptional. I can imagine that some people think bass quantity is too much - I do not think so, at least not for most genres. It does have a pronounced bass though. While the Clear for an open headphone has plenty of bass and real slam, it is more neutral than the 7200. Clear's bass is fast, very well textured and just "right-sized" for most genres. Both headphones have bass that does not bleed into the mid section and lean more to deep bass than mid-bass. This is crucial for me: I love deep rumbling bass, but I just cannot stand bloomy mid-bass, this ruins the whole experience for me. If I loved this I would buy beats

In all other respects, the Clear is better IMO, which it should be, given that it is open and 2x more expensive. I think it is tonally pretty perfectly balanced, except for a slight mid forwardness that might burn away as I only have these since short. I did notice that amping with a warmer, punchier amp does benefit the Clear (unlike the 7200). My beloved HA-1 is not the best choice, my HA200 mono blocks do a much better job, as they are not as bright as the HA-1.

All in all I am very happy with both headphones, they are my prefered open and closed cans, respectively.

really thanks. i have a warmer amp. i don´t know if is best combination with denon because i had the combo recently. so probably clear is best solution

 

[gb21011971]

really thanks. i have a warmer amp. i don´t know if is best combination with denon because i had the combo recently. so probably clear is best solution

Indeed. If you are not an extreme basshead, don't have a specific need for a closed headphone and have the budget, then personally I would definitely recommend the Clear.

 

[giedrys]

Are prices calmed down it the States recently or there's still clear advantage buying them overseas?

 

[zolkis]

The D7200 really improve with time. May be the wooden cups and the pads getting settled?

To those who find the mids a bit shouting/ringing, I recommend trying the Lawton tune-up kit, more exactly the adhesive paper-like disc from it, or something similar, attached to the cups from the inside.
I measured the D7200 in original form, without the Denon polyfill damping, and with the Lawton tune-up disc (only). While measurements (below) are almost identical, the paper damping totally kills the subjective shouting/ringing for me. I need a few days to evaluate it more thoroughly, but this principle seems to work well. None of my selected ringing tracks ring any more than my other headphones.

One could experiment with the other elements of the tune-up kit as well - I have not kept them.

Another thing that made a rather big positive improvement is to take off the (original) pads, fold out the flaps, and carefully cut off the dust-cloth. That thing withholds too much treble/midrange information. If you want another dust grill, use something like the Stax dust grills. This material Denon used is just too thick and dense.

Of course, this destroys your original pads, so do this on replacement pads, or then just assume the risk.

The end result is rather pleasing, this is a fantastic closed headphone.

Red: no cups damping.
Green: original damping.
Blue: with the Lawton tune-up disc.
Not much difference on the other things either: CSD, impulse, distortion are nearly identical, but they do sound slightly different (red ~= green, blue sounds better than the others).

 

[Camper1995]

The D7200 really improve with time. May be the wooden cups and the pads getting settled?

To those who find the mids a bit shouting/ringing, I recommend trying the Lawton tune-up kit, more exactly the adhesive paper-like disc from it, or something similar, attached to the cups from the inside.
I measured the D7200 in original form, without the Denon polyfill damping, and with the Lawton tune-up disc (only). While measurements (below) are almost identical, the paper damping totally kills the subjective shouting/ringing for me. I need a few days to evaluate it more thoroughly, but this principle seems to work well. None of my selected ringing tracks ring any more than my other headphones.

One could experiment with the other elements of the tune-up kit as well - I have not kept them.

Another thing that made a rather big positive improvement is to take off the (original) pads, fold out the flaps, and carefully cut off the dust-cloth. That thing withholds too much treble/midrange information. If you want another dust grill, use something like the Stax dust grills. This material Denon used is just too thick and dense.

Of course, this destroys your original pads, so do this on replacement pads, or then just assume the risk.

The end result is rather pleasing, this is a fantastic closed headphone.

Red: no cups damping.
Green: original damping.
Blue: with the Lawton tune-up disc.
Not much difference on the other things either: CSD, impulse, distortion are nearly identical, but they do sound slightly different (red ~= green, blue sounds better than the others).

In which frequency range is the ringing supposed to happen? I honestly don't hear any when I listen to the D7200 but it could be due to physical differences of our ears.

I also spent quite some time modding these headphones, especially internally, to replace the stock polyfill dampening for some other material and shape (tried Lawton too) but in every case it just made them a little darker sounding which I honestly didn't like, and considering that you have to assemble/disassemble the headphones every time you mod it just to even try the effect, I'd just go and trust Denon on what they did with the cup design and leave them stock as they are. The screws can wear off really fast if you mod it internally often. Honestly after spending countless hours modding headphones, I don't really encourage people to do it because most of the time it's not going to be making them sound better, just different. It's always something for something and 9 out of 10 times I still returned to the stock tuning (speaking in general, not just D7200)


0.5mm acoustic foam cut in a circle, it made them more liquidy in the midrange but slightly more laid back overall, however I did use only stock pads back when I tried this. I should try it again with ZMF Ori perforated and maybe Dekoni Th900 velours.

I think the safest non destructive way is to just swap pads or mod the pads to your liking rather than fiddle with the internals, pads still have the biggest impact on sound and they're easy to tweak. Perforated leather works pretty great in my experience, gives the sound a little more body but doesn't recess the midrange too much. Also I recommend you to experiment with attenuation rings that go under pads, you can cut them out in any shape you imagine and those can tweak the sound signature in a big way.
If you have any tips I'd like to hear them. And I should mention that I don't have any measuring rig, just relying on my ears

Cheers!

 

[Bluess]

Instead of modding the headphone, I would recommend getting an amp with op-amp or tube rollable. You can tried various flavor with out breaking the thing I'm driving D7200 with E12DIY and X7II now.

 

[zolkis]

In which frequency range is the ringing supposed to happen? I honestly don't hear any when I listen to the D7200 but it could be due to physical differences of our ears.

I also spent quite some time modding these headphones, especially internally, to replace the stock polyfill dampening for some other material and shape (tried Lawton too) but in every case it just made them a little darker sounding which I honestly didn't like, and considering that you have to assemble/disassemble the headphones every time you mod it just to even try the effect, I'd just go and trust Denon on what they did with the cup design and leave them stock as they are. The screws can wear off really fast if you mod it internally often. Honestly after spending countless hours modding headphones, I don't really encourage people to do it because most of the time it's not going to be making them sound better, just different. It's always something for something and 9 out of 10 times I still returned to the stock tuning (speaking in general, not just D7200)

0.5mm acoustic foam cut in a circle, it made them more liquidy in the midrange but slightly more laid back overall, however I did use only stock pads back when I tried this. I should try it again with ZMF Ori perforated and maybe Dekoni Th900 velours.

I think the safest non destructive way is to just swap pads or mod the pads to your liking rather than fiddle with the internals, pads still have the biggest impact on sound and they're easy to tweak. Perforated leather works pretty great in my experience, gives the sound a little more body but doesn't recess the midrange too much. Also I recommend you to experiment with attenuation rings that go under pads, you can cut them out in any shape you imagine and those can tweak the sound signature in a big way.
If you have any tips I'd like to hear them. And I should mention that I don't have any measuring rig, just relying on my ears

Cheers!

Looks like we have explored similar paths, only that I've been through this with the TH900, not the D7200 . The TH900 benefited most from changed pads, then changed foam damper rings, then cups damping (ended up with nothing, as all ringing disappeared from the CSD in about 2 years time...).

That D7200 midrange ringing/glare/honkiness/whatever happens around 2-3 kHz, and there's been only 3 people I know were bothered by it. Might be a headphone variation thing - that is why I started with the disclaimer "for those" .

I went through maybe 15-20 pad changes/mods, not with the stock pads, (making it sound more open, more spacious, or just different). I have also added thin felt dampers (gets too muffled), and so far considered all cups damping muffle the sound darker. This one is a reasonable compromise, as it shelves down the glare, without making the sound thicker/muddier. There are many levels, but the principle seems to be to add a small damping/lining of the right material to the cups.

About pads, I noticed that all pads with memory foam filling case the sound to become darker and more muffled (either because they used too much of it, like Denon seems to do, or because it was the wrong density). I have modded a lot of headphones with pads, and most of them could be made better. Stax has the best foam in pads - actually the stock Stax-009 pads sound pretty awesome on the D7200. In principle, it seams the least mass the foam has, the better: that means large porous structure, with an optimal density and resilience that needs to be found for a given design. I applied this in modding many pads.

You're right, in the D7200 case the perforated leather (from the inner side) is probably the best.

If one wants a somewhat more open sound without mods, just take out the plastic rings from the pads, and attach the pads with double adhesive tape to the housing.

But if someone doesn't have specific problems with the D7200 (like midrange ringing), just leave it the way it is.

 

[gb21011971]

Pad swapping. I am usually not a big fan, because I did not often have satisfying results. I believe that manufacturers usually will have spent some time figuring out what the "best" pad design for a given headphone is. I have used Dekoni pads on my old 7000, but mainly for comfort reasons and because they do not alter the sound too much.

This one I found interesting though: I had some old Beyerdynamic pads lying around, not sure which model exactly they originate from, I believe the DT-1990. Anyway, it is the design that has no holes on the inside. It did change the sound of the 7200 quite a bit: Interestingly enough the resulting sound signature reminded me of the old Fostex-made Ah-D7000. Bass does not change much, maybe I get a bit more mid bass and looseness, but trebles do change a lot and get more elevated. The result is a more V-shaped sound, similar to the Fostex variants. Tonal balance is definitely less neutral.

For what it is worth... some might like it, some might not. I don't even know which one I prefer myself. I might keep using the original pads, since I still own the 7000 and don't need two headphones with a similar signature.

Comfort is better, but again that might be subjective, personally I like velour pads. As expected, they do leak somewhat more sound than the original pads.